Dame asks for trade (And there it is)

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Ripcity4life77 said:
My message to this front office is you had your vacation now time to get back to work and get this done ASAP so we can all move on to the future no matter what that future might hold but this delay only does more damage the longer this is drawn out -- PERIOD
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In the high-stakes world of the National Basketball Association (NBA), the role of a general manager is undeniably demanding and stressful PERIOD. These decision-makers are responsible for shaping the destiny of their respective teams, negotiating player contracts, scouting talent, and devising winning strategies PERIOD. With such immense responsibilities, it becomes crucial for an NBA general manager to get a well-deserved chance to take a vacation PERIOD.

Firstly, a vacation offers the general manager an opportunity to recharge and rejuvenate PERIOD. The continuous grind of the NBA season, coupled with the pressure to succeed, can lead to burnout PERIOD. Taking time off allows the general manager to step away from the daily rigors of the job, giving them a fresh perspective upon their return PERIOD. This renewed focus can lead to better decision-making and more effective team-building strategies PERIOD.

Secondly, a vacation provides a chance for an NBA general manager to spend quality time with their family and loved ones PERIOD. The demanding nature of the job often forces these professionals to sacrifice personal time PERIOD. By taking a break, they can strengthen personal relationships and create cherished memories PERIOD.

Additionally, a vacation helps prevent tunnel vision PERIOD. Constantly being immersed in the high-pressure world of the NBA can narrow a general manager's outlook PERIOD. Stepping away allows them to gain insights from different experiences and industries, fostering creativity and innovation when they return to their role PERIOD.

In conclusion, the significance of an NBA general manager taking a vacation cannot be overstated PERIOD. It is essential for their well-being, personal life, and overall effectiveness in shaping a successful basketball franchise PERIOD. By recognizing the need for downtime, these decision-makers can continue to lead their teams to victory and sustained excellence PERIOD.
 
wizenheimer said:
which team(s) would be making big offers for Dame if he'd had a list of 3 or 4 teams instead of 1?
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Are we supposed to know this?

Maybe Boston
Maybe Brooklyn
Maybe New York
Maybe the Clippers
Maybe the Lakers
Maybe Golden State
Maybe New Orleans
Maybe any number of teams. We will never know.
 
Ha SBB -- your a funny poster cause if all you got out of my post was a vacation and PERIOD then it's clear to me you cannot read and as far as I am concerned your NOT a fan your a troll trying to get a MY reaction and while I am giving you a small one take yourself back under your bridge and just go away. I will debate any fan on this forum but if your a troll then I will just point you to a mod and hope they do there job and take the garbage out and this is not a shot at mods just stating what i will do from this point on with the troll posters looking to provoke the forum and/or a poster.

GO BLAZERS !!
 
blazerkor said:
Brooklyn isn't in a position where they'd really need to mortgage anything. They have seven tradeable first round picks and I don't think anyone is saying that we'd get back more than four from them and they'd likely only have to give up Simmons and one of there two rookies.

I think that the position that we would be putting Miami in as one of the top teams in the league should warrant a very good offer from them by training camp. That offer would be them guaranteeing OKC their 2026 pick so we could get their FRPs in 2024, 28 and 30, we should not have to take back a shitty contract like Duncan Robinson's, we should get both Jovic and Jaquez.

Honestly I don't think it's crazy to say that we will send them Dame and Nurk, they will send out Lowry, Herro, Jovic, Jaquez and those three FRPs without protections. Obviously we would need to find a team that values Herro that might be the Spurs who are sitting on a lot of picks and would likely give up something like the Suns 2025 FRP, expiring vet contracts and maybe one filler contract that isn't expiring.

So we end up with Lowry's expiring deal, other expiring deals (McDermott, Birch), Jovic, Jaquez, let's just say Branham and four FRPs.
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do you really believe that's a good haul compared to what the Nets got for Durant; or what Utah got; or what Houston leveraged for Harden?

the Miami picks might be good 5-7 years from now; we don't know. They could be late 1st's too. Lowry? Jovic? Jaquez? Where's the value in that? All I see is some marginal players with questionable talent, a late 1st next year, and speculative picks 5-7 years from now...for Dame

SlyPokerCat said:
Why move past New Orleans and just say CJ?

They have Herb Jones and Trey Murphy. Both players better fits and with more potential than anyone Miami is offering us.

They also have Dyson Daniels and Jordan Hawkins and multiple picks.

It might not be a "haul" but its good assets and stuff to move forward with from a depreciating asset.
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it's not just the assets New Orleans has; it's what they'd be willing to pay. Right now all they'd have to beat is Miami's offer, and by all accounts, what Miami is offering is shit. I don't believe they'd trade BOTH of Murphy/Jones or both of Daniels/Hawkins

I'd say the trade, at best, might look something like Dame + Nurkic for

CJ + Valunciunas + one of Murphy/Jones + one Daniels/Hawkins (maybe) + 2024 or 2025 Lakers' 1st + 2027 Milwaukee first + maybe, 2 first's from the Pels with perhaps some protection

yeah, that's likely better than the max Miami offer but it's not a great return. Obviously, CJ would need to be routed to another team but I don't think he has any positive value.

and all of that is assuming Dame would say New Orleans would be an OK destination. Unlikely
 
Natebishop3 said:
Are we supposed to know this?

Maybe Boston
Maybe Brooklyn
Maybe New York
Maybe the Clippers
Maybe the Lakers
Maybe Golden State
Maybe New Orleans
Maybe any number of teams. We will never know.
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But we do know what those teams can offer:

Boston: Can no longer offer Jaylen Brown (would've been dumb to take him on a one year contract anyway). So what an injured Malcolm Brogdon and Robert Williams and 4 1sts?

Brooklyn: Has multiple salaries that could be used and could trade multiple future 1sts, if they were willing. So like Simmons and Dinwiddie and 5 1sts?

New York: Has the 1sts to trade but they have Jalen Brunson, so would they really give up a ton for Dame? Barrett and Fournier and picks?

Clippers: Can only trade 2028 and 2030 1sts and don't really have appealing young prospects. Mann, Zubac, Batum, Morris and 2 1sts?

Lakers: Can only trade one 1st and their top rookie is a PG. They actually don't have enough salary outside of LeBron or AD to even trade for Dame right now so they're out.

Golden State: In 5 weeks could trade you Chris Paul and Kuminga plus filler and one 1st in 2028, okay.

New Orleans: Could probably have the most intriguing package, but they really wanted Scoot. Zion for Dame basically? Would be a huge risk, with a high possible reward but would that be better than future picks? Could definitely make the case for them being the best trade partner.

Miami: 4 1sts (3 of those from Miami, 1 from whatever team Herro goes to), 3 swaps, Jovic, Jaquez, Lowry's expiring.

I don't know, when you break it all down there might be a couple teams that could give up more than the Heat, the question is would they even if it was an open market? The Miami deal isn't really that bad when you really look at what other teams could/would offer. It's not great but none of this is going to change by holding out longer, that's the most any of these teams can trade this year.
 
Utah, OKC and Toronto have picks and youth that could be traded for Dame. I doubt OKC would be interested with SGA on the roster, but they could be a facilitator.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Are we supposed to know this?

Maybe Boston
Maybe Brooklyn
Maybe New York
Maybe the Clippers
Maybe the Lakers
Maybe Golden State
Maybe New Orleans
Maybe any number of teams. We will never know.
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So, Dame asks for a trade because he wants to compete for a title. Do you think he'd have a list of 8 teams? When has a franchise player asking for a trade ever had a list of 8 or 9 preferred destinations?

again, I said Dame's Miami-or-bust stance was unreasonable; have said it a dozen times, probably more. I just don't have faith that if Dame had said he was ok with 3-4 teams the offers would magically jump up to the level of major hauls.
 
wizenheimer said:
do you really believe that's a good haul compared to what the Nets got for Durant; or what Utah got; or what Houston leveraged for Harden?

the Miami picks might be good 5-7 years from now; we don't know. They could be late 1st's too. Lowry? Jovic? Jaquez? Where's the value in that? All I see is some marginal players with questionable talent, a late 1st next year, and speculative picks 5-7 years from now...for Dame



it's not just the assets New Orleans has; it's what they'd be willing to pay. Right now all they'd have to beat is Miami's offer, and by all accounts, what Miami is offering is shit. I don't believe they'd trade BOTH of Murphy/Jones or both of Daniels/Hawkins

I'd say the trade, at best, might look something like Dame + Nurkic for

CJ + Valunciunas + one of Murphy/Jones + one Daniels/Hawkins (maybe) + 2024 or 2025 Lakers' 1st + 2027 Milwaukee first + maybe, 2 first's from the Pels with perhaps some protection

yeah, that's likely better than the max Miami offer but it's not a great return. Obviously, CJ would need to be routed to another team but I don't think he has any positive value.

and all of that is assuming Dame would say New Orleans would be an OK destination. Unlikely
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It doesn't matter if Dame says its an ok destination. He won't sit out and lose money. Ingram, Zion, Herb Jones is more talent than he has ever had on a team.

I think multiple picks, Trey Murphy, Dyson Daniels or Hawkins, CJ and Valanciunas is substantially better than the Miami deal.

I'm not sure what CJ could bring back either. Something to ponder.
 
hoopsjock said:
But we do know what those teams can offer:

Boston: Can no longer offer Jaylen Brown (would've been dumb to take him on a one year contract anyway). So what an injured Malcolm Brogdon and Robert Williams and 4 1sts?

Brooklyn: Has multiple salaries that could be used and could trade multiple future 1sts, if they were willing. So like Simmons and Dinwiddie and 5 1sts?

New York: Has the 1sts to trade but they have Jalen Brunson, so would they really give up a ton for Dame? Barrett and Fournier and picks?

Clippers: Can only trade 2028 and 2030 1sts and don't really have appealing young prospects. Mann, Zubac, Batum, Morris and 2 1sts?

Lakers: Can only trade one 1st and their top rookie is a PG. They actually don't have enough salary outside of LeBron or AD to even trade for Dame right now so they're out.

Golden State: In 5 weeks could trade you Chris Paul and Kuminga plus filler and one 1st in 2028, okay.

New Orleans: Could probably have the most intriguing package, but they really wanted Scoot. Zion for Dame basically? Would be a huge risk, with a high possible reward but would that be better than future picks? Could definitely make the case for them being the best trade partner.

Miami: 4 1sts (3 of those from Miami, 1 from whatever team Herro goes to), 3 swaps, Jovic, Jaquez, Lowry's expiring.

I don't know, when you break it all down there might be a couple teams that could give up more than the Heat, the question is would they even if it was an open market? The Miami deal isn't really that bad when you really look at what other teams could/would offer. It's not great but none of this is going to change by holding out longer, that's the most any of these teams can trade this year.
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Sure.... now.

But if Dame hadn't given us a list with one team on it a month ago, things might have played out differently...... but we'll never know.
 
wizenheimer said:
So, Dame asks for a trade because he wants to compete for a title. Do you think he'd have a list of 8 teams? When has a franchise player asking for a trade ever had a list of 8 or 9 preferred destinations?

again, I said Dame's Miami-or-bust stance was unreasonable; have said it a dozen times, probably more. I just don't have faith that if Dame had said he was ok with 3-4 teams the offers would magically jump up to the level of major hauls.
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Dame had never said "championship or bust." Those words never were uttered publicly. In fact, he had said the opposite. He had always said he just wanted to compete. He just wanted a punchers chance.

I think any one of those teams could easily fit that description.
 
SlyPokerCat said:
It doesn't matter if Dame says its an ok destination. He won't sit out and lose money. Ingram, Zion, Herb Jones is more talent than he has ever had on a team.

I think multiple picks, Trey Murphy, Dyson Daniels or Hawkins, CJ and Valanciunas is substantially better than the Miami deal.

I'm not sure what CJ could bring back either. Something to ponder.
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that all may be the case

but I sure wasn't talking about a standard of just beating the Miami offer; that's obviously a real low bar. I was talking about the level of Dame-trade return packages that so many have imagined. I never bought into those narratives. In fact, my thinking was the moment that Dame asked for a trade, there would be a ceiling on how valuable the return was going to be
 
wizenheimer said:
do you really believe that's a good haul compared to what the Nets got for Durant; or what Utah got; or what Houston leveraged for Harden?

the Miami picks might be good 5-7 years from now; we don't know. They could be late 1st's too. Lowry? Jovic? Jaquez? Where's the value in that? All I see is some marginal players with questionable talent, a late 1st next year, and speculative picks 5-7 years from now...for Dame
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The Cavs trade is only considered solid right now because Markkanen blew up. His numbers the year before were very average. Certainly nowhere near All-Star numbers.

We aren't getting the Durant value. Durant might have his warts at this point, but he is someone that has proven he can be on a championship team. Nobody has any clue if Dame is a championship caliber point guard. He has put up big numbers on very mediocre teams while playing very little defense.

Maybe Harden? I think it's still possible to get a trade similar to what Utah got for Mitchell, but you have to go back in time and look at that trade when it was made, not with hindsight.
 
hoopsjock said:
But we do know what those teams can offer:

Boston: Can no longer offer Jaylen Brown (would've been dumb to take him on a one year contract anyway). So what an injured Malcolm Brogdon and Robert Williams and 4 1sts?

Brooklyn: Has multiple salaries that could be used and could trade multiple future 1sts, if they were willing. So like Simmons and Dinwiddie and 5 1sts?

New York: Has the 1sts to trade but they have Jalen Brunson, so would they really give up a ton for Dame? Barrett and Fournier and picks?

Clippers: Can only trade 2028 and 2030 1sts and don't really have appealing young prospects. Mann, Zubac, Batum, Morris and 2 1sts?

Lakers: Can only trade one 1st and their top rookie is a PG. They actually don't have enough salary outside of LeBron or AD to even trade for Dame right now so they're out.

Golden State: In 5 weeks could trade you Chris Paul and Kuminga plus filler and one 1st in 2028, okay.

New Orleans: Could probably have the most intriguing package, but they really wanted Scoot. Zion for Dame basically? Would be a huge risk, with a high possible reward but would that be better than future picks? Could definitely make the case for them being the best trade partner.

Miami: 4 1sts (3 of those from Miami, 1 from whatever team Herro goes to), 3 swaps, Jovic, Jaquez, Lowry's expiring.

I don't know, when you break it all down there might be a couple teams that could give up more than the Heat, the question is would they even if it was an open market? The Miami deal isn't really that bad when you really look at what other teams could/would offer. It's not great but none of this is going to change by holding out longer, that's the most any of these teams can trade this year.
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Let's go down this list.

Boston: out of the running. If they had been on the list, maybe they are willing to trade Brown. Maybe not. We will never know.

Brooklyn: Has multiple salaries that could be used and could trade multiple future 1sts, if they were willing. So like Simmons and Dinwiddie and 5 1sts? Yup. I'd definitely do Brooklyn over Miami.

New York: Has the 1sts to trade but they have Jalen Brunson, so would they really give up a ton for Dame? Barrett and Fournier and picks? I'd be trying to push to have them send Brunson to a third team. I love their picks though.

Clippers: Can only trade 2028 and 2030 1sts and don't really have appealing young prospects. Mann, Zubac, Batum, Morris and 2 1sts? Clippers don't make any sense unless you're involving a third team. Similar to Miami. They both suck.

Lakers: Can only trade one 1st and their top rookie is a PG. They actually don't have enough salary outside of LeBron or AD to even trade for Dame right now so they're out. Agreed.

Golden State: In 5 weeks could trade you Chris Paul and Kuminga plus filler and one 1st in 2028, okay. I don't love them as a partner.

New Orleans: Could probably have the most intriguing package, but they really wanted Scoot. Zion for Dame basically? Would be a huge risk, with a high possible reward but would that be better than future picks? Could definitely make the case for them being the best trade partner. I think they're the most intriguing right now. I just don't think anyone would want CJ and it would be hilarious if they tried to do Dame/CJ at this point.

Miami: 4 1sts (3 of those from Miami, 1 from whatever team Herro goes to), 3 swaps, Jovic, Jaquez, Lowry's expiring. This is probably what we get. If it's less than that from Miami, I'm going to be firmly on the FIRE JOE bandwagon.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Dame had never said "championship or bust." Those words never were uttered publicly. In fact, he had said the opposite. He had always said he just wanted to compete. He just wanted a punchers chance.

I think any one of those teams could easily fit that description.
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sure...a broad description with varying levels of fit

but from that list you gave, I think there are significant questions about every team. The Clippers/Lakers/Warriors can't beat the Miami offer; I don't believe Boston would have been a player; the Knicks have Brunson for 30M/year less than Dame and he's 6 years younger; Brooklyn seems to have no interest, understandably, although sure, that might be negotiating 101. And I don't think Dame would have any interest in going to New Orleans, mainly because they simply aren't a team with a puncher's chance

it's also some unfortunate timing for the Blazers in that some teams, namely Minny, Philly, Cavs, Suns, have already taken their big shot and are out of the Dame market
 
Natebishop3 said:
Sure.... now.

But if Dame hadn't given us a list with one team on it a month ago, things might have played out differently...... but we'll never know.
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Let's get on the same page here...

Cronin had to have known Dame would likely request out if he drafted and kept Scoot, right?

It's been widely reported that Cronin refused any Dame phone calls prior to him asking out, right?

Unless you disagree with one of those two, how is this not on Cronin for not vetting out what would happen if he kept Scoot and what deals were out there for Dame? If he weighed all the options for the 3rd pick whether to keep it or not, how do you not factor in what the market would be for Dame BEFORE it got to the point it did. Then you'd at least know what teams were possibly willing to give up before Dame used his leverage!
 
wizenheimer said:
sure...a broad description with varying levels of fit

but from that list you gave, I think there are significant questions about every team. The Clippers/Lakers/Warriors can't beat the Miami offer; I don't believe Boston would have been a player; the Knicks have Brunson for 30M/year less than Dame and he's 6 years younger; Brooklyn seems to have no interest, understandably, although sure, that might be negotiating 101. And I don't think Dame would have any interest in going to New Orleans, mainly because they simply aren't a team with a puncher's chance

it's also some unfortunate timing for the Blazers in that some teams, namely Minny, Philly, Cavs, Suns, have already taken their big shot and are out of the Dame market
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But here's the problem... because Dame said "only Miami" and his agent was calling teams and telling them he wouldn't be happy, that removes the possibility of any of these teams trying to work out multi-team trades to acquire Dame.

Also... why wouldn't New Orleans have a punchers chance?
 
Ripcity4life77 said:
The Blazers are coming to the point that the trigger has to get pulled cause IF the franchise really wants to turn this over to Scoot and Sharpe then this has to end sooner rather then later and no way this can get delayed until the deadline during the season. I think if that happens it's unfair not only to Dame but to Scoot and Sharpe and hurts the future of this team with them at the helm. I am not going to get into the Dame drama of who is at fault cause for one the truth no matter what it is will come out at some point so not going to dwell on that until that happens. This rebuild needs to fully get going and until we know what we are getting back in a trade package then how can this team get rebuilt since we have no idea what will be needed in terms of team makeup and right now this team is in limbo.

My message to this front office is you had your vacation now time to get back to work and get this done ASAP so we can all move on to the future no matter what that future might hold but this delay only does more damage the longer this is drawn out -- PERIOD
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Nah the longer we go the better the offer.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Also... why wouldn't New Orleans have a punchers chance?
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BIG Q said:
Pretty sure hoops jock meant Cronin was not fielding call on Dame trades, not refusing calls from Dame. Slight oversight.
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That would make a lot more sense.

So there's a lot to unpack when we guess on what Joe did and did not know.

I agree that Dame was very clear about what he did and did not want. He was less clear about what would happen if the Blazers did not adhere to his request, but we could all imply what would happen.

There's definitely a case to be made about Joe wanting to rebuild and driving Dame towards asking out.

There's also a case to be made about Dame putting the Blazers in a corner so that he COULD ask out with a clear conscience.

But there's no way the Blazers would trade Dame without Dame asking out. They didn't want that PR hit. That is obvious. That's why both sides have been dancing around who's fault it is, and who is the bad guy. If both sides would have just come together two years ago and said that it was in everyone's best interest to part ways amicably, this could have all been avoided.
 
Natebishop3 said:
They still have a pretty damn good roster, even without Zion.

But Zion's health is practically the very definition of a punchers chance :lol:
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their record over the last 2 seasons was 78-86; over the last 3 seasons was 109-127

if they are exchanging CJ, Murphy, Daniels, & Valunciunas for Dame and Nurkic, I'm not sure they would be throwing a lot better punches; but they'd definitely have a glass jaw
 
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