Dame in Milwaukee thread

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andalusian said:
The Celtics stars are still young, maybe a year or two from their peak, and, like the bucks, had new major additions this year which can be better with another year.
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Brown goes to $50 million next year. Jrue just signed $135 million over 4 years. that puts him at $35 million. Tatum is at $35 million. , Porzingis is 30 million.
They are good but a few injuries slows them down a bit and I'm not sure they can get past the Pacers at this point?
Kind of seems like the Bucks with some health and maybe a few tweaks could be really good?
 
kjironman1 said:
Brown goes to $50 million next year. Jrue just signed $135 million over 4 years. that puts him at $35 million. Tatum is at $35 million. , Porzingis is 30 million.
They are good but a few injuries slows them down a bit and I'm not sure they can get past the Pacers at this point?
Kind of seems like the Bucks with some health and maybe a few tweaks could be really good?
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Bucks with a healthy Giannis would have won that series. The Celtics will be the eastern champions. Knicks/Pacers will be fun. Siakam VS Anunoby.
 
kjironman1 said:
Brown goes to $50 million next year. Jrue just signed $135 million over 4 years. that puts him at $35 million. Tatum is at $35 million. , Porzingis is 30 million.
They are good but a few injuries slows them down a bit and I'm not sure they can get past the Pacers at this point?
Kind of seems like the Bucks with some health and maybe a few tweaks could be really good?
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Celtics will probably need to breakup their roster eventually when those contracts are due for more raises but that's probably not for 3 years..... Hopefully just in time for us to get their unprotected pick.

NY has lots of picks, clean cap, so could add a star and be much better next year.

Some young teams like the Pacers/Magic could take a big step up, they have cap space, youth that will improve, and picks.

Dame has had major injuries to end 2 of the last 3 years after none his first dozen... Got to be a concern as he enters his mid 30s. Giannis injury is just bad luck. But biggest problem for the Bucks is the rest of that roster is very old, very expense, little upside to improve, and they have no picks. I'd think they look closer to being a 10th seed Warriors in the next few years than a title favorite. You never want to count out Giannis/Dame in a playoff series. But we've seen many years even with LBJ/Davis how two studs and flawed role players isn't enough, and Dame isn't quite at those guys level.
 
I believe the Celtics with younger stars are less likely to suffer healthy issues than the bucks with their older stars
 
Chris Craig said:
Bucks with a healthy Giannis would have won that series. The Celtics will be the eastern champions. Knicks/Pacers will be fun. Siakam VS Anunoby.
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It wasn't a guarantee they'd win the series even with a healthy Giannis. They lost the season series vs the Pacers this year and they had been playing like ass ever since Doc Rivers took over.
 
Dame won 1 more playoff game with MIL this year than he did last year with the Blazers......with WAY more talent, injuries or not. Given that outcome and the unprotected 1st round picks Portland gets in the future, it would seem Portland didn't come out so bad.
 
IF I am understanding the statement of "Very satisfying outcome " -- Are some of you happy that Dame got bounced and that he did not get a chance for a ring ?

Before I respond more I want to know if this is the case and why ? ---- IF I am mistaken then tell me -- thanks
 
Ripcity4life77 said:
IF I am understanding the statement of "Very satisfying outcome " -- Are some of you happy that Dame got bounced and that he did not get a chance for a ring ?

Before I respond more I want to know if this is the case and why ? ---- IF I am mistaken then tell me -- thanks
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I have not been rooting for Dame to lose, nor do I anticipate I will ever do so (unless they play Portland). I do root for Glenn Rivers to lose though.
 
Ripcity4life77 said:
IF I am understanding the statement of "Very satisfying outcome " -- Are some of you happy that Dame got bounced and that he did not get a chance for a ring ?

Before I respond more I want to know if this is the case and why ? ---- IF I am mistaken then tell me -- thanks
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Absolutely. I was going to be indifferent before - but once he and his agent tried to force the Blazers into a bad trade, I was definitely rooting for him to fail. It's gone well!
 
Ripcity4life77 said:
IF I am understanding the statement of "Very satisfying outcome " -- Are some of you happy that Dame got bounced and that he did not get a chance for a ring ?

Before I respond more I want to know if this is the case and why ? ---- IF I am mistaken then tell me -- thanks
Click to expand...

I never root against Dame. With Giannis out, Dame injured, and Doc coaching, I knew the team was doomed. Glad they made it a series. Dame will still get his chance. In the meantime Indiana VS New York (Siakam VS Anunoby) will be fun to watch in the second round.

I do find it interesting with Giannis out and Dame leading the way for the Bucks, they faced the same issue with teams doubling Dame and not being able to make them pay, as the Blazers did, even with a better team.
 
Ripcity4life77 said:
IF I am understanding the statement of "Very satisfying outcome " -- Are some of you happy that Dame got bounced and that he did not get a chance for a ring ?

Before I respond more I want to know if this is the case and why ? ---- IF I am mistaken then tell me -- thanks
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100%. Fuck him and his agent for trying to force Joes hand. They put the Blazers in a tough spot
 
Mediocre Man said:
100%. Fuck him and his agent for trying to force Joes hand. They put the Blazers in a tough spot
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laying it all in Dame is bullshit; Cronin was not blameless in that situation, at all; and the Blazers weren't blameless either after keeping Olshey in place for a decade and having absentee ownership

I'd also suggest that the Blazers weren't going to have many suitors other than Milwaukee and Miami

the vindictiveness and venom some of you have for Dame after he showed over 10 years of loyalty is petty. Divorces are never pretty
 
wizenheimer said:
laying it all in Dame is bullshit; Cronin was not blameless in that situation, at all; and the Blazers weren't blameless either after keeping Olshey in place for a decade and having absentee ownership

I'd also suggest that the Blazers weren't going to have many suitors other than Milwaukee and Miami

the vindictiveness and venom some of you have for Dame after he showed over 10 years of loyalty is petty. Divorces are never pretty
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Couldn't one say the same about the venom Team Dame showed the Blazers after 10 years of loyalty being petty?
 
PCmor7 said:
Couldn't one say the same about the venom Team Dame showed the Blazers after 10 years of loyalty being petty?
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I guess I never saw that but it could have been there. It certainly wasn’t there when he came back and played here. The Dame return game had no “Venom”.
 
PCmor7 said:
Couldn't one say the same about the venom Team Dame showed the Blazers after 10 years of loyalty being petty?
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obviously some do...

I think it has always been clear that Dame believed Cronin lied to him. And if Cronin was saying the same things to Dame privately he said publicly, then Dame probably has justification for feeling that way

Dame didn't handle the situation well and I think the combination of Dame's agent coordinating with Pat Riley on a 'strategy' at the same time Dame was going thru a separation/divorce made for a mess
 
wizenheimer said:
obviously some do...

I think it has always been clear that Dame believed Cronin lied to him. And if Cronin was saying the same things to Dame privately he said publicly, then Dame probably has justification for feeling that way

Dame didn't handle the situation well and I think the combination of Dame's agent coordinating with Pat Riley on a 'strategy' at the same time Dame was going thru a separation/divorce made for a mess
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So we don't have to put 100% blame on one side or the other?
 
kjironman1 said:
I guess I never saw that but it could have been there. It certainly wasn’t there when he came back and played here. The Dame return game had no “Venom”.
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Do you mean from the Blazers toward Dame, the fans to Dame, or Dame to Blazers fans? I'm not understanding. My post was comparing the venom Wiz said some have toward Dame is reciprocal to Dame's posture to the Blazers, which came first,

He got traded to a better team than he requested. You don't think an organization letting him in on most decisions for more than half his time here, acquiring players he wanted and even putting his non-qualified cousin on the roster for two years deserved better than "we're going to try to screw over the Blazers for not trading Dame to Miami for peanuts"?
 
wizenheimer said:
obviously some do...

I think it has always been clear that Dame believed Cronin lied to him. And if Cronin was saying the same things to Dame privately he said publicly, then Dame probably has justification for feeling that way

Dame didn't handle the situation well and I think the combination of Dame's agent coordinating with Pat Riley on a 'strategy' at the same time Dame was going thru a separation/divorce made for a mess
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That's a lot of conjecture and unconditional belief in Team Dame, which, having seen how they carried themselves, seems hard to place unless one had their mind already made up.
 
PCmor7 said:
That's a lot of conjecture and unconditional belief in Team Dame, which, having seen how they carried themselves, seems hard to place unless one had their mind already made up.
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wut? "unconditional belief in Team Dame"...?

I think "team Dame" was Dame, his agent, and Pat Riley. I think two of those are snakes and Dame isn't one of them

PCmor7 said:
Do you mean from the Blazers toward Dame, the fans to Dame, or Dame to Blazers fans? I'm not understanding. My post was comparing the venom Wiz said some have toward Dame is reciprocal to Dame's posture to the Blazers, which came first,
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I thought I explained how I perceived that but maybe I wasn't clear...being that Dame's posture to the Blazers, and Blazer fans, was dramatically different than his posture toward Joe Cronin. I think there was bad blood between Dame and Cronin; and I don't think the bad blood was all conjured up by Dame alone
 
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wizenheimer said:
wut? "unconditional belief in Team Dame"...?

I think "team Dame" was Dame, his agent, and Pat Riley. I think two of those are snakes and Dame isn't one of them



I thought I explained how I perceived that but maybe I wasn't clear...being that Dame's posture to the Blazers, and Blazer fans, was dramatically different than his posture toward Joe Cronin. I think there was bad blood between Dame and Cronin; and I don't think the bad blood was all conjured up by Dame alone
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I think it's a bit naive or a sign of partiality to think Dame's agent and his surrogates in the press presented what they did without Dame's OK, and guys like Fentress and Haynes are Dame guys, not Riley guys.

As to the second part, I'm not sure why you're responding to a question directed to kjironman, but why wouldn't Dame's posture be different to Cronin than to the fans? The fans can't trade him. The bad blood could simply have been from not trading him to the team he wanted. You not thinking it was all conjured up by Dame doesn't mean it wasn't all conjured up by Dame. Clearly, none of us know the answer to that, but you're making a supposition without the benefit of information. It's all conjecture.
 
PCmor7 said:
"we're going to try to screw over the Blazers for not trading Dame to Miami for peanuts"?
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I guess i just really never saw this part? Maybe i wasn't really paying attention? I do agree both side could have handled it better. The whole I want to go to Miami seemed to make the entire situation tough. On the other hand that probably could have been said behind closed doors just like the trade to Milwaukee was handled fairly discreetly.
 
kjironman1 said:
I guess i just really never saw this part? Maybe i wasn't really paying attention? I do agree both side could have handled it better. The whole I want to go to Miami seemed to make the entire situation tough. On the other hand that probably could have been said behind closed doors just like the trade to Milwaukee was handled fairly discreetly.
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I guess that could be a matter of interpretation, but how many other NBA examples since the arrival of social media do we have of so many stories coming from a player's camp of not only a trade request but a demand to be dealt to one other team?

I'm just not really sure how anyone cannot see that part. We had Dame's agent making statements. We had the people in the media closest to Dame making statements. They all were aligned.

Dame, at any point, could have taken to Twitter and set it straight but never did. That seemed really telling. He couldn't help but be aware of what was going on. It goes, I think, beyond the realms of belief to think his surrogates were making inflammatory statements on his behalf either trashing the team ("he gave them his last 10 years and they owe it to him") or threatening the team ("if the Blazers don't trade him to the Heat he won't play for whoever he's traded to" or allusions that other information detrimental to the organization would be revealed) without Dame's direction or at least approval, especially as long as it went on.

Obviously, we don't know what the Heat were offering, although most of the speculation and reports had Herro going to a third team for a first-round pick, a couple of picks (1R down the road and 2R) and pick swaps, one young talent (probably Jovic) and a combination of dumps to match salary (Duncan Robinson, Lowry). Caleb Martin was speculated early on but that seemed to get quashed. We had many indications that the Heat didn't feel the need to spend any more in compensation because the Blazers owed it to Dame/Dame had the Blazers over a barrel, and that narrative was leaned into heavily by Goodwin, Fentress and Haynes.

Then we have that neither Cronin nor anyone in the Blazers fired any public shots at Dame in response. Everything was complimentary of Dame and what he did in Portland but also that the Blazers were committed to getting fair compensation but would try to send him to a contender -- which they did.

Looking at that last part, I guess I just can't see any way someone can say "both sides." Only one side made this messy.

Fans can speculate on what Cronin did, but we don't have to speculate about what Dame's camp did, because they did it for everyone to see for weeks.

I loved Dame as a player and the face of the organization. That said, I can look at all the facts here as we know them and admit what his people did was dirty pool and his silence through it all didn't speak well for him.

It just looks to me like some fans love for Dame the Blazer blind them to the behavior of Dame the Trade Prospect. They can't bring themselves to call it like it is for the latter because they're so invested in the former.

If that part's incorrect, I'm open to hearing you or Wiz enlighten me how you reconcile how else you can feel the way you do beyond just an unconditional trust in Dame that requires an unreasonable distrust of Cronin.
 
Let me make one addendum to what I just posted -- "only one side made this messy, PUBLICLY."

Anything Cronin or the Blazers did to make it messy, aside from the very reasonable reluctance to trade Dame to the Heat for useless parts, is completely speculative. We have a few people that claim to know things but they've never presented details of exactly what they know or where their information came from.
 
PCmor7 said:
Let me make one addendum to what I just posted -- "only one side made this messy, PUBLICLY."

Anything Cronin or the Blazers did to make it messy, aside from the very reasonable reluctance to trade Dame to the Heat for useless parts, is completely speculative. We have a few people that claim to know things but they've never presented details of exactly what they know or where their information came from.
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Have to agree with this. I was pretty impressed with exactly how little we knew about the actual trade before it happened. Joe certainly did a good job of keeping it close to the vest as they say.
 
PCmor7 said:
I think it's a bit naive or a sign of partiality to think Dame's agent and his surrogates in the press presented what they did without Dame's OK, and guys like Fentress and Haynes are Dame guys, not Riley guys.

As to the second part, I'm not sure why you're responding to a question directed to kjironman, but why wouldn't Dame's posture be different to Cronin than to the fans? The fans can't trade him. The bad blood could simply have been from not trading him to the team he wanted. You not thinking it was all conjured up by Dame doesn't mean it wasn't all conjured up by Dame. Clearly, none of us know the answer to that, but you're making a supposition without the benefit of information. It's all conjecture.
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yes, it's all conjecture, mine and yours and just about everyone else. But we do have 11 years of Dame as a Blazer to go on. Do you think that revealed nothing about him?

by the way, I never said Dame didn't approve the 'Miami-or-bust' tactic. I didn't like the tactic. But I know I wasn't the only one who noticed the bad blood between Dame and Cronin. For me, those 11 years of Dame as a Blazer make me give him some benefit of the doubt in this situation and not lay 100% of the blame on Dame alone

PCmor7 said:
Let me make one addendum to what I just posted -- "only one side made this messy, PUBLICLY."

Anything Cronin or the Blazers did to make it messy, aside from the very reasonable reluctance to trade Dame to the Heat for useless parts, is completely speculative. We have a few people that claim to know things but they've never presented details of exactly what they know or where their information came from.
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that's fair
 
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