FIRE CRONIN

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Tince said:
If this move helped the Clippers a ton because the other 28 teams were drooling over Norm and Cov, they wouldn't be laughing at us, they'd be pissed we didn't take their significantly better offer.
Click to expand...
Tons of teams were linked to RoCo and most reports said that Norm had great value all around the league. I guarantee you that there are a lot of pissed off execs out there right now not so much because they lost out on two role playing starters but for sure they're pissed that we just made the Clippers a lot better this year and for years to come for pennies on the dollar. At the same time they're probably having a pretty good laugh because a bunch of them know that they would have given us twice the value we got for just one of the two guys.

As far as an exchange of value goes this trade is so incredibly terrible that if you're not a Blazers fan it's definitely hilarious. We'll see if Cronin makes some other deal or deals that make the team better and somehow make this deal make sense but no matter what Joe does it will never negate the fact that he gave away a lot of value today for very little in return.
 
I haven't heard any negative reaction about Billups, today. My guess is that Billups input was partly the reason for this baloney.
 
Tince said:
Certainly possible. Though for that to be true we'd have to assume:
  1. No team has called Portland in 3 months
  2. Cronin has a motive, in his one and only audition, to take a deal he felt was bad to insure he never gets a GM job in the future.
If we can come up with a likely explination for both those things to be true, I'd consider your theory. At this point, neither seem probable at all.
Click to expand...

Why not wait until closer to the deadline? This makes no sense. This trade was horrible. Beyond horrible.
 
blazerkor said:
Tons of teams were linked to RoCo and most reports said that Norm had great value all around the league. I guarantee you that there are a lot of pissed off execs out there right now not so much because they lost out on two role playing starters but for sure they're pissed that we just made the Clippers a lot better this year and for years to come for pennies on the dollar. At the same time they're probably having a pretty good laugh because a bunch of them know that they would have given us twice the value we got for just one of the two guys.

As far as an exchange of value goes this trade is so incredibly terrible that if you're not a Blazers fan it's definitely hilarious. We'll see if Cronin makes some other deal or deals that make the team better and somehow make this deal make sense but no matter what Joe does it will never negate the fact that he gave away a lot of value today for very little in return.
Click to expand...

Linked and reported with the sources being who? Their agents?

Please explain to my why you think Cronin and his team would be actively turning down significantly better deals, that meets the path ownership is willing to go down, in his 4-8 month audition? What would his motivation be?
 
Tince said:
Linked and reported with the sources being who? Their agents?

Please explain to my why you think Cronin and his team would be actively turning down significantly better deals, that meets the path ownership is willing to go down, in his 4-8 month audition? What would his motivation be?
Click to expand...

If this was the best on the table, you wait until closer to the trade deadline. There's basically a week left. This was straight up stupid.
 
Tince said:
Linked and reported with the sources being who? Their agents?

Please explain to my why you think Cronin and his team would be actively turning down significantly better deals, that meets the path ownership is willing to go down, in his 4-8 month audition? What would his motivation be?
Click to expand...
Doing nothing would have been much better than what he did, from a basketball perspective.
 
Blazer Twitter in meltdown mode.

Fans are planning to attend games just to heckle Cronin.

Blazer Reddit - many aren’t planning to re-up their season tickets.

Dark days are upon Blazer faithful.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Why not wait until closer to the deadline? This makes no sense. This trade was horrible. Beyond horrible.
Click to expand...

Having not been in the negotiations, there could be a couple reasons:
  1. The Clippers offer was shockingly way better than any other one they were getting and there was a time limit to the offer being valid
  2. The Blazers are planning to use Bledsoe in a deal that is already lined up, so doing the move now removes the risk of the 2nd deal falling through.
Again, I don't get to hear all the offers Portland is getting like some here. I don't love the move. But come on, people need to realize we have so many players the league see as a negative asset. I thought you wanted change?
 
Wizard Mentor said:
I haven't heard any negative reaction about Billups, today. My guess is that Billups input was partly the reason for this baloney.
Click to expand...
It's reasonable to think that the head coach gave the OK on the trade but at the same time he may not have liked the trade at all and just got overruled because Cronin is the acting GM and that's a position above the head coach and Vulcan probably liked it because we'll reset the repeater tax clock. The idea that we would ever see a negative reaction by a team guy like Chauncey even if he hated the trade is ludicrous. Chauncey is going to talk about the things he's excited about obviously.
 
i'm trying to understand the mental gymnastics it took to convince dame that this was a good move.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Doing nothing would have been much better than what he did, from a basketball perspective.
Click to expand...

100% we'd be a better team from a talent standpoint today if we didnt' make the move.

Would we have blessings over ownership to go in the tax next year if we didn't get under this week? I doubt it.
Would we be in the best position to obtain a top 5 pick if we kept Norm/Cov? I doubt it.

Maybe you were one of the people who liked the idea of running it back over and over and over, while slightly over paying for marginal role players. At some point, we were going to have to pay a price for all those made moves. This is the start of that price. It's not over.
 
We’re stupid of course Powel had no real trade value he scores 18 ppg with Toronto and us. He scores from 3 levels and shoots extremely well from 3. He’s known to be a decent defender (when he plays his natural position). Have to think we got lucky to dump not only him but Roco for 3 bench players and 2nd round pick.
 
Tince said:
Linked and reported with the sources being who? Their agents?

Please explain to my why you think Cronin and his team would be actively turning down significantly better deals, that meets the path ownership is willing to go down, in his 4-8 month audition? What would his motivation be?
Click to expand...
I don't think deals were offered yet. Teams were just expressing interest about RoCo and it was just analysts opinions that Norm could fetch a nice return (this deal is done so I'm not going to dig around to find you links, you can do that yourself but the Cavs, Pelicans, Jazz and like four other teams were all linked to RoCo and the Norm thing is just obvious). When you look at how little production we got out of this deal for Dame's window, I don't think we could have traded these two guys for anything less.

All of that being said, I agree with you that on your second point the deal was made to get that Bledsoe contract, I think that had to be the case and also get us under the tax. So we should see another deal, the fact that we haven't already is a little disconcerting because Cronin may have thought he had a deal that was air tight that fell through once the other GM saw how little was needed to get other valuable assets of ours. If that's the case maybe we don't see another move and Cronin is left holding the bag. I'm still reserving judgment on if this deal was complete idiocy but for sure Cronin got played and sold extremely low on those two guys.
 
blazerkor said:
I don't think deals were offered yet. Teams were just expressing interest about RoCo and it was just analysts opinions that Norm could fetch a nice return (this deal is done so I'm not going to dig around to find you links, you can do that yourself but the Cavs, Pelicans, Jazz and like four other teams were all linked to RoCo and the Norm thing is just obvious). When you look at how little production we got out of this deal for Dame's window, I don't think we could have traded these two guys for anything less.

All of that being said, I agree with you that on your second point the deal was made to get that Bledsoe contract, I think that had to be the case and also get us under the tax. So we should see another deal, the fact that we haven't already is a little disconcerting because Cronin may have thought he had a deal that was air tight that fell through once the other GM saw how little was needed to get other valuable assets of ours. If that's the case maybe we don't see another move and Cronin is left holding the bag. I'm still reserving judgment on if this deal was complete idiocy but for sure Cronin got played and sold extremely low on those two guys.
Click to expand...
Multiple mentions of how there were so few sellers this yr. And how we coulda created a bidding war.
 
Tince said:
100% we'd be a better team from a talent standpoint today if we didnt' make the move.

Would we have blessings over ownership to go in the tax next year if we didn't get under this week? I doubt it.
Would we be in the best position to obtain a top 5 pick if we kept Norm/Cov? I doubt it.

Maybe you were one of the people who liked the idea of running it back over and over and over, while slightly over paying for marginal role players. At some point, we were going to have to pay a price for all those made moves. This is the start of that price. It's not over.
Click to expand...
So, if we would have traded Dame today for Kevin Love, and a 2nd round pick, it'd be totally OK because we...
"have to pay a price for all those made moves. This is the start of that price. It's not over."

You don't sell your wife and kids because you owe a few thousand on your house.
 
illmatic99 said:
Seems unfathomable but thats what I'm wondering now. Like absolutely no way he accepts it ina vacuum without demanding a trade out.
Click to expand...

I think they wanted him to demand a trade last summer so they could dump him without being the bad guys, but he backed off.

And then this happens.....
 
blazerkor said:
I don't think deals were offered yet. Teams were just expressing interest about RoCo and it was just analysts opinions that Norm could fetch a nice return (this deal is done so I'm not going to dig around to find you links, you can do that yourself but the Cavs, Pelicans, Jazz and like four other teams were all linked to RoCo and the Norm thing is just obvious). When you look at how little production we got out of this deal for Dame's window, I don't think we could have traded these two guys for anything less.

All of that being said, I agree with you that on your second point the deal was made to get that Bledsoe contract, I think that had to be the case and also get us under the tax. So we should see another deal, the fact that we haven't already is a little disconcerting because Cronin may have thought he had a deal that was air tight that fell through once the other GM saw how little was needed to get other valuable assets of ours. If that's the case maybe we don't see another move and Cronin is left holding the bag. I'm still reserving judgment on if this deal was complete idiocy but for sure Cronin got played and sold extremely low on those two guys.
Click to expand...

All fair points.

I'm 100% certain we could've made a worse trade. For starters, we made a trade that didn't handcuff our future by taking on ANOTHER bad contract and/or giving up 1st round drafts which over the last 20 years have proven to be the only way for us to obtain all-star talent. We made those types of move on an annual basis over the last 5 years. At some point, you've got to stop opening new credit cards to pay off your old credit card debt.
 
blazerkor said:
It's reasonable to think that the head coach gave the OK on the trade but at the same time he may not have liked the trade at all and just got overruled because Cronin is the acting GM and that's a position above the head coach and Vulcan probably liked it because we'll reset the repeater tax clock. The idea that we would ever see a negative reaction by a team guy like Chauncey even if he hated the trade is ludicrous. Chauncey is going to talk about the things he's excited about obviously.
Click to expand...
There's been an ongoing narrative about Chauncey wanting to get guys who thrived in Chauncey's system. The narrative is sensible, but not corroborated.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
So, if we would have traded Dame today for Kevin Love, and a 2nd round pick, it'd be totally OK because we...
"have to pay a price for all those made moves. This is the start of that price. It's not over."

You don't sell your wife and kids because you owe a few thousand on your house.
Click to expand...

If you value role players as much as a Top 75 player in NBA history, this anology would make sense. I think there has to be a price to be paid. One is to give up Dame for significantly less value and the other is to give us guys like Cov/Norm for significantly less value. I would prefer to give up Norm/Cov. If you would have preferred to keep them and lose Dame, that's certainly an opinion.

If you thought Norm/Cov were the wife and kids of this franchise, the cornerstones, then I don't know what to tell you.

Norm/Cov are the the new car you bought on a nice sunny weekend despite already being in debt, now 2 years later, with the creditors beating down your door, you have to sell those bad boys for $0.50 on the $1. They were never the wife and kids in my eyes.
 
Tince said:
All fair points.

I'm 100% certain we could've made a worse trade. For starters, we made a trade that didn't handcuff our future by taking on ANOTHER bad contract and/or giving up 1st round drafts which over the last 20 years have proven to be the only way for us to obtain all-star talent. We made those types of move on an annual basis over the last 5 years. At some point, you've got to stop opening new credit cards to pay off your old credit card debt.
Click to expand...
I didn't say we couldn't have made a worse trade because obviously we could have because like you said this trade doesn't tie up money in the long term and it didn't cost us future draft assets that we currently have. What I did say was that we couldn't have got less productive assets in return that fit Dame's window. Even a first rounder is more potential production because as Olshey showed time and time again you can just tack it onto a player to get a slight upgrade.
 
blazerkor said:
I didn't say we couldn't have made a worse trade because obviously we could have because like you said this trade doesn't tie up money in the long term and it didn't cost us future draft assets that we currently have. What I did say was that we couldn't have got less productive assets in return that fit Dame's window. Even a first rounder is more potential production because as Olshey showed time and time again you can just tack it onto a player to get a slight upgrade.
Click to expand...

What you define as "less produtive asset" I guess is where we might not see eye to eye.

We got slaughtered from a talent standpoint. If another team was offering us their top 20 pick from last year, expiring contracts, and another likely top 20 pick in the future, we 100% should've taken it. I haven't read a solidly sourced report that a deal like that was on the table. I personaly don't think any team in the league would give us that for those two.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top