Fuck this healthcare Reform...

[3RA1N1AC]

ok, you say that if i lose my job tomorrow, that i would expect the government to pay for myself...havent you been extolling the very virtues of medicaid for 100 posts or so? isnt that what your "suggestion" has been all along?

and if you lose YOUR job tomorrow, wouldnt you and your daughters go on the same welfare? so wouldnt you be expecting the government to then pay FOR YOU??

fucking priceless

 

[Paxil]

We have to pay to keep up our automobiles and our homes, why should the upkeep and repair on our bodies be free, or worse, paid for by someone else?

Universal health care isn't about someone else paying for it... it is about everyone paying for it. I realize you may want the right choice to not have health insurance... but that is an easy choice to make when you know you can walk into any emergency room and receive care... and that if you are incapacitated you will receive critical treatment regardless.

Right now my insurance (which I pay about $300 per month for through work) pays for all the people who *don't* have insurance.

 

[maxiep]

ok, you say that if i lose my job tomorrow, that i would expect the government to pay for myself...havent you been extolling the very virtues of medicaid for 100 posts or so? isnt that what your "suggestion" has been all along?

Medicaid is when you have no other options. Are you saying that you save none of your paycheck?

and if you lose YOUR job tomorrow, wouldnt you and your daughters go on the same welfare? so wouldnt you be expecting the government to then pay FOR YOU??

Actually, no. I'm a saver and an investor. I have been all my life. It's been at the expense of having as nice of things as my friends and colleagues, not taking vacations, bringing my lunch, not eating out, wearing suits until they wear out, etc. I picked a figure that I made my goal of a standard of living when I got out of college and that's my standard of living today. The rest is saved, invested or given to charity. My wife is a CPA, and is as careful with money as am I. My son isn't yet three and his college is already funded (assuming projected inflation and current investment targets).

If our fund closed tomorrow, I wouldn't have to ask for a dime from anyone. That self-sufficiency has come at a high cost to my lifestyle.

fucking priceless

You're not alone in your mocking of my lifestyle; I'm used to it. It's not an attitude that most people have these days. I have much more in common with my Depression-era grandparents than I do with my friends. I darn socks, I reuse tinfoil and I have a vegetable garden (which I know you think is ridiculous).

 

[maxiep]

Universal health care isn't about someone else paying for it... it is about everyone paying for it. I realize you may want the right choice to not have health insurance... but that is an easy choice to make when you know you can walk into any emergency room and receive care... and that if you are incapacitated you will receive critical treatment regardless.

Right now my insurance (which I pay about $300 per month for through work) pays for all the people who *don't* have insurance.

Universal health care is about giving someone else the power to ration your health care. It's a simple case of supply and demand. I believe that the government has no business telling me what kind of health care and I can and cannot receive. My body is my business; it's not the government's.

And as I have posted before, the cost of covering the uninsured isn't completely covered by your insurance. It's mostly covered by private foundations hospitals have, by donated services and supplies and by charitable contributions.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Just to weigh in, I am one of those cold, unfeeling individuals that believes that if someone can't pay for a medical treatment (or the insurance that covers it), then they should do without it. There are myriad things in society that the wealthy have more/better of than the rest of us--including basic needs like food, clothing, and shelter; I don't see why medical coverage should be any different.

People talk about health care as a "right", but that's contrary to the fundamental concept of what a "right" is. A right is something that you have naturally, not something that is conferred upon you. A right is not something that the govenrnment grants; it is something that the government should not inhibit. So when the Declaration of Independence talks about "a right to life", this doesn't mean that the government has a responsibility to ensure that your life continues; it only means that the government has a responsibility to not deprive you of your life.

There is no right to health care, just like there is not a right to have food, clothing, or shelter. People are responsible to provide for their own needs; it is not the government's responsibility to provide for them. Now, I am fully in favor of individual charity and privately funded charitable organizations that seek to meet these needs for those who cannot; however people should have the choice to decide whether, when, and how to contribute.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Medicaid is when you have no other options. Are you saying that you save none of your paycheck?

no, YOU said that. or do you somehow fantasize about it coming out of my mouth instead? thats kinky. nowhere have i ever said that. reading is clutch

i mean i could just respond to everyone of your posts with "are you saying that you love it when your dad fists you in the asshole?" maybe thats the assumption im making from what i read, cant really fault me for it right? please stop

Actually, no. I'm a saver and an investor. I have been all my life. It's been at the expense of having as nice of things as my friends and colleagues, not taking vacations, bringing my lunch, not eating out, wearing suits until they wear out, etc. I picked a figure that I made my goal of a standard of living when I got out of college and that's my standard of living today. The rest is saved, invested or given to charity. My wife is a CPA, and is as careful with money as am I. My son isn't yet three and his college is already funded (assuming projected inflation and current investment targets).

If our fund closed tomorrow, I wouldn't have to ask for a dime from anyone. That self-sufficiency has come at a high cost to my lifestyle.

you say all this, yet you could just as easily be destitute, people lose great amounts of money very quickly...history is littered by stories of the little investor being ruined overnight...and if that happened, would you receive medicaid? would you take the welfare? for your children? would you expect someone else to pay for it? the whole "i dont have to worry about it because im rich" argument, is precisely the point of me asking, what would you do?

You're not alone in your mocking of my lifestyle; I'm used to it. It's not an attitude that most people have these days. I have much more in common with my Depression-era grandparents than I do with my friends. I darn socks, I reuse tinfoil and I have a vegetable garden (which I know you think is ridiculous).

im actually down with all that stuff man, i clip coupons and plant my own herbs. the laughable part is telling the entire country that might not have the money/time and is hungry to "grow some food", assuming they have a yard they can dig up in the first place

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Just to weigh in, I am one of those cold, unfeeling individuals that believes that if someone can't pay for a medical treatment (or the insurance that covers it), then they should do without it. There are myriad things in society that the wealthy have more/better of than the rest of us--including basic needs like food, clothing, and shelter; I don't see why medical coverage should be any different.

People talk about health care as a "right", but that's contrary to the fundamental concept of what a "right" is. A right is something that you have naturally, not something that is conferred upon you. A right is not something that the govenrnment grants; it is something that the government should not inhibit. So when the Declaration of Independence talks about "a right to life", this doesn't mean that the government has a responsibility to ensure that your life continues; it only means that the government has a responsibility to not deprive you of your life.

There is no right to health care, just like there is not a right to have food, clothing, or shelter. People are responsible to provide for their own needs; it is not the government's responsibility to provide for them. Now, I am fully in favor of individual charity and privately funded charitable organizations that seek to meet these needs for those who cannot; however people should have the choice to decide whether, when, and how to contribute.

yes like i said, if a kids parents cant afford health insurance, he deserves to die, thank you for having the courage to actually say it

 

[maxiep]

no, YOU said that. or do you somehow fantasize about it coming out of my mouth instead? thats kinky. nowhere have i ever said that. reading is clutch

I was asking a question. I wasn't making a statement. The "?" should have been a big hint.

i mean i could just respond to everyone of your posts with "are you saying that you love it when your dad fists you in the asshole?" maybe thats the assumption im making from what i read, cant really fault me for it right? please stop

I'd happily get fisted by my dad if it meant that he were still living. However, he's dead.

you say all this, yet you could just as easily be destitute, people lose great amounts of money very quickly...history is littered by stories of the little investor being ruined overnight...and if that happened, would you receive medicaid? would you take the welfare? for your children? would you expect someone else to pay for it? the whole "i dont have to worry about it because im rich" argument, is precisely the point of me asking, what would you do?

I segment my investing. There's money I'm willing to lose and money I'm not. Those who lose everything overnight are generally those who are seeking large returns with all of their money or who have it concentrated in one investment. All that being said, you're still missing the point: Everyone gets taken care of in our health care system. You either sell what you own to pay for it or if you're down to the felt you get government or charitable assistance.

im actually down with all that stuff man, i clip coupons and plant my own herbs. the laughable part is telling the entire country that might not have the money/time and is hungry to "grow some food", assuming they have a yard they can dig up in the first place

I used the idea of growing vegetables (which you can do in any container inside a house, BTW) as an example of an area where people could save money. How about getting rid of cable or internet at home? How about not eating outside the home? Do you know what the largest segment of the uninsured in this country is? It's people who have the ability to buy insurance, but who choose to purchase other items instead. My sympathy for those people is pretty much nil.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

yes like i said, if a kids parents cant afford health insurance, he deserves to die, thank you for having the courage to actually say it

Deserves? No, no child deserves to die from some horrific illness. But everybody dies eventually, whether at 1 or 100. If a child contracts a terminal disease, and the parents can't afford the treatment, then I don't believe the child has a right to have the government pay for it. I don't think that's an unreasonable position.

 

[maxiep]

Just to weigh in, I am one of those cold, unfeeling individuals that believes that if someone can't pay for a medical treatment (or the insurance that covers it), then they should do without it. There are myriad things in society that the wealthy have more/better of than the rest of us--including basic needs like food, clothing, and shelter; I don't see why medical coverage should be any different.

People talk about health care as a "right", but that's contrary to the fundamental concept of what a "right" is. A right is something that you have naturally, not something that is conferred upon you. A right is not something that the govenrnment grants; it is something that the government should not inhibit. So when the Declaration of Independence talks about "a right to life", this doesn't mean that the government has a responsibility to ensure that your life continues; it only means that the government has a responsibility to not deprive you of your life.

There is no right to health care, just like there is not a right to have food, clothing, or shelter. People are responsible to provide for their own needs; it is not the government's responsibility to provide for them. Now, I am fully in favor of individual charity and privately funded charitable organizations that seek to meet these needs for those who cannot; however people should have the choice to decide whether, when, and how to contribute.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to PtldPlatypus again."

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Deserves? No, no child deserves to die from some horrific illness. But everybody dies eventually, whether at 1 or 100. If a child contracts a terminal disease, and the parents can't afford the treatment, then I don't believe the child has a right to have the government pay for it. I don't think that's an unreasonable position.

*sigh*

 

[3RA1N1AC]

and maxie, would you accept welfare to provide healthcare for you and your family? if you couldnt afford healthcare, would you have everyone else pay the bill for you?

yes or no

 

[blazerboy30]

why not give up clothes? become a nudist!
give up buying food! you can easily scavenge in dumpsters!
do your own stitches! and staples! make your own penicillin!
give up your car! the money you save waking up at midnight to start walking to work will almost pay for 1/3 of your premium!
get a smaller house! your kids can sleep on the kitchen floor!

for the love of god, listen to yourself....

How much per year do you think catastrophic insurance costs?

 

[3RA1N1AC]

How much per year do you think catastrophic insurance costs?

exactly more than some can afford

 

[3RA1N1AC]

maxie actually said most of that stuff, not me gumshoe

 

[PtldPlatypus]

and maxie, would you accept welfare to provide healthcare for you and your family? if you couldnt afford healthcare, would you have everyone else pay the bill for you?

yes or no

I know you didn't ask this of me, but I'm going to comment anyway: exactly how is willingness to accept something relevant to one's belief about whether people are entitled to it? There are many things that I will accept when offered that I don't deserve and could do without. Unemployment benefits for 2 1/2 months when I was laid off, for example. But had they not been there, I would have found a way to get by.

 

[blazerboy30]

exactly more than some can afford

So you're really just yelling out of your ass on this entire topic.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

So you're really just yelling out of your ass on this entire topic.

so you love getting fisted by your dad.

we can both make stuff up, its a hoot

 

[3RA1N1AC]

I know you didn't ask this of me, but I'm going to comment anyway: exactly how is willingness to accept something relevant to one's belief about whether people are entitled to it? There are many things that I will accept when offered that I don't deserve and could do without. Unemployment benefits for 2 1/2 months when I was laid off, for example. But had they not been there, I would have found a way to get by.

so welfare is good for you, just not sick babies, got it

 

[PtldPlatypus]

so welfare is good for you, just not sick babies, got it

No, clearly you don't get it ("it" being my position), and clearly you don't want to--a fact you have now made abundantly clear. I only engage in discussions with those who are intellectually honest about their participation therein. If you actually desire legitimate discourse on this topic, feel free to PM me and let me know, and we can continue. Otherwise, I'm done.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

low premium, high deductible health plans, can range from 400-1000 dollars A MONTH for a family of 5 with deductibles of 1000-11000 dollars...not exactly chump change to millions of families living check to check...i actually wrote this all earlier today lol, reading is clutch

 

[PtldPlatypus]

low premium, high deductible health plans, can range from 400-1000 dollars A MONTH for a family of 5 with deductibles of 1000-11000 dollars...not exactly chump change to millions of families living check to check...i actually wrote this all earlier today lol, reading is clutch

http://mychristiancare.org/medi-share-pricing-tool.aspx

Through this company, coverage for my family with a $5000 deductible would cost $293/mo, or $236/mo if we're all healthy. A $10,000 deductible would be $123-$157/mo. I'm sure it's not the cheapest plan in the country, either.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

http://mychristiancare.org/medi-share-pricing-tool.aspx

Through this company, coverage for my family with a $5000 deductible would cost $293/mo, or $236/mo if we're all healthy. A $10,000 deductible would be $123-$157/mo. I'm sure it's not the cheapest plan in the country, either.

thanks for the info, seems about right, but 10,000 dollars for a family living check to check? most likely more than half of the claims dont get paid out because of that reason, and thats why they can afford to set premiums so low

 

[3RA1N1AC]

also that site only has 3 or more as an option, and is fairly generic. a family of 5 i would assume would cost more to insure than a family of 3?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

also that site only has 3 or more as an option, and is fairly generic. a family of 5 i would assume would cost more to insure than a family of 3?

Nope--no price difference between 3 or 13. And the point was, you gave a range of 400-1000/mo for high deductible plans; I easily found one for significantly less, and I'm sure there are others.

 

[MrJayremmie]

Deserves? No, no child deserves to die from some horrific illness. But everybody dies eventually, whether at 1 or 100. If a child contracts a terminal disease, and the parents can't afford the treatment, then I don't believe the child has a right to have the government pay for it. I don't think that's an unreasonable position.

So if a young child gets cancer (which is not always terminal and can be treated and reversed), and the parents cant afford treatment, its pretty much tough luck?

Well if everyone dies, at 1 or 100, if a lady gets pregnant and doesn't want to keep it, isn't it also of your belief then that the government should not be able to force her to keep it?

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Nope--no price difference between 3 or 13. And the point was, you gave a range of 400-1000/mo for high deductible plans; I easily found one for significantly less, and I'm sure there are others.

the first site i went to was the one i quoted, and while yours is considerably cheaper, i still maintain it is still too much for millions of families to afford

 

[Ed O]

So if a young child gets cancer (which is not always terminal and can be treated and reversed), and the parents cant afford treatment, its pretty much tough luck?

Yes. Except insofar as there are nongovernmental entities that will help.

How many young children could the government feed for a year, rather than spending tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars on one (perhaps terminal, perhaps not) young child? How many potholes could be fixed or rapists prosecuted?

We can't afford to do everything.

Ed O.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

http://mychristiancare.org/medi-share-pricing-tool.aspx

Through this company, coverage for my family with a $5000 deductible would cost $293/mo, or $236/mo if we're all healthy. A $10,000 deductible would be $123-$157/mo. I'm sure it's not the cheapest plan in the country, either.

That's not health insurance. I'm not sure what it is but it sounds little strange.

Medi-Share brings believers together to share each other’s healthcare costs. It’s a modern-day version of what the church started back in the book of Acts.

Each month, your share is matched with another’s eligible medical bills. Christian Care Ministry facilitates the direct sharing of medical costs between participants and provides you with a secure online way to see who you are sharing with so you can pray for and encourage them.

And when you have a medical incident your fellow believers have committed to sharing with and praying for you! It’s that simple!

Medi-Share is more than healthcare.
It's a community of like-minded believers who pray for each other, supported by an organization that provides health education and promotes biblical living.
Experience the freedom and blessing that comes from knowing you are helping your brothers and sisters in Christ meet their medical costs as they do the same for you.

 

[blazerboy30]

thanks for the info, seems about right, but 10,000 dollars for a family living check to check? most likely more than half of the claims dont get paid out because of that reason, and thats why they can afford to set premiums so low

Using PtldPlatypus's numbers for a family, that puts the family insurance cost at $2832 / year. Let's assume that a "family" is 4 people. That brings the yearly total to $708 / person / year.

Compare that to the proposed Obamacare costs and number insured. Using the last numbers I saw for the cost of Obamacare, and the number of people that would receive coverage, it comes out to $4500 / person / year.

Catastrophic insurance ~ $708 / year. Obamacare ~ $4500 / year.

Yeah, this thread title is pretty accurate.