Gary "Hard Cap" Payton

[illmatic99]

If this team wins 45 games and makes the play in I will be ecstatic!

We got an early second for RoCo. If that's all we ended up getting for GP2 I'm honestly fine with it. That is about his value.

keep expectations low and you will never be disappointed... i guess.

 

[julius]

we have a draymond on our roster? is grant as good a defender as wiggins? is Nurk as durable as Looney?

well in that case, we should just complain about things because they aren't exactly like the Warriors.

 

[B-Roy]

keep expectations low and you will never be disappointed... i guess.

I recall you and others specifically being okay with this being a 2-3 year thing. Not a next year kind of thing. What changed? Honestly GP2 vs Porter or whoever else such a nit.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

keep expectations low and you will never be disappointed... i guess.

How about at least keeping them realistic. 45 wins this year would be absolutely outstanding.

 

[illmatic99]

well in that case, we should just complain about things because they aren't exactly like the Warriors.

Are you just being obtuse on purpose?

You were the one who brought up GS as an example for GP2's effectiveness. I am pointing out legitimate reasons for why GS was a unique circumstance that maximized GP2's disruptive defense because he had an all-time defender flanking him in Draymond and we don't have that.

 

[illmatic99]

I recall you and others specifically being okay with this being a 2-3 year thing. Not a next year kind of thing. What changed? Honestly GP2 vs Porter or whoever else such a nit.

I was fine with it mostly because i was OK with Sharpe pick (I was thrilled with the pick). just disappointed that we didn't add size and our FA move hinders PT for Shaedon.

 

[B-Roy]

I was fine with it mostly because i was OK with Sharpe pick. just disappointed that we didn't add size and our FA move hinders PT for Shaedon.

I think you and many others have not yet become comfortable with the reality that Lillard may not be on this team in a year or two. Once you accept that possibility, things start looking a lot clearer.

 

[illmatic99]

I think you and many others are not comfortable with the reality that Lillard may not be on this team in a year or two. Once you accept that reality, things start looking a lot clearer.

perhaps. just don't want to cross that bridge yet.

 

[B-Roy]

We're going to get OG Anunoby in a year or two btw. The avatar deems it. Lillard may be out going though.

 

[julius]

Are you just being obtuse on purpose?

You were the one who brought up GS as an example for GP2's effectiveness. I am pointing out legitimate reasons for why GS was a unique circumstance that maximized GP2's disruptive defense because he had an all-time defender flanking him in Draymond and we don't have that.

No, I brought up GState because if you look at their roster, they're mostly 6'5" and under.

How many games did Draymond missed a chunk of the season, does that mean the games he missed and GP2 played, GP's defense was much worse?

 

[illmatic99]

How many games did Draymond missed a chunk of the season, does that mean the games he missed and GP2 played, GP's defense was much worse?

we have to look that up, don't we?

but we do have evidence in the fact that he couldn't stick in the NBA for nearly 5 years prior to landing in GS. And the fact that he was a negative defender in Milwaukee and LA. He was an improved defender in Washington but they didn't think he was worth retaining.

I don't think it's unfair to be skeptical. This isn't complaining.

 

[B-Roy]

No, I brought up GState because if you look at their roster, they're mostly 6'5" and under.

How many games did Draymond missed a chunk of the season, does that mean the games he missed and GP2 played, GP's defense was much worse?

Good point. I just looked up GSW's game log. Payton even started a few of the games where Draymond was out. Played very well. Left is Green, right is Payton.

 

[illmatic99]

We're going to get OG Anunoby in a year or two btw. The avatar deems it. Lillard may be out going though.

well shit. my avatar curse thing has failed me two consecutive times this year with Cronin and Bledsoe.

@PtldPlatypus y'all owe me for this shit.

 

[THE HCP]

If Golden State would of re-signed him or another team got him there would be a thread about how we suck for not going after him etc.

Oh HEEERE we go. The Beaver fans coming out to support this dude……. SIGH

 

[illmatic99]

btw... this signing is still not official.

 

[wizenheimer]

I'm not crazy about Portland hard-capping themselves for Payton because it essentially restricts the Blazers to about half of the NBA trading landscape at the same time it rendered the TPE's useless . That still leaves plenty of trade options over however

it also went the opposite way in addressing Portland 'length' issues.

at the same time though, Payton brings something pretty unique to the Blazers, or at least some skills they haven't had in the Dame era

 

[andalusian]

We could have had Jalen Smith for less than the TPMLE. No hard cap, better roster balance.

I think they valued opposing guard defense over roster balance.

 

[andalusian]

that's what we said about roco.

Roco was never, ever, the individual defender than GP2 is.

i'm rightfully skeptical whether he can do what he did in GS. Let's not forget that he couldn't stick on any other roster and actually played on the GS summer league team last summer.

I think he could not stick anywhere, including GSW because everyone tried to play him as a guard on both sides of the floor. Once they figured out he is a PF on offense and multi-positional player elsewhere, it clicked. It obviously helps that Draymond who plays PF is such a good facilitator. Luckily, for Portland, between Dame, Ant, Winslow and a little bit of Watford and Nurk, they have multiple offensive facilitators in multiple positions, so there is no need playing GP2 as a guard on offense, since he is not, really.

 

[illmatic99]

Roco was never, ever, the individual defender than GP2 is.

I'm not talking about their games. I'm talking about the rationalization on this forum after finding out that we traded two picks for Roco was that we could at least recover one for him. We didn't.

Everyone (including me) was also thrilled with him the first year but he fell off a cliff in year 2.

 

[riverman]

but i don't see how GP2 does that either

We haven't had a point of attack defender since Wes Mathews and GPII is a way better ball handler than Wes ever was with his chest high dribble...Wes couldn't finish a layup in the open court many times either but he could shut down James Harden....GPII can shut down anybody and finish a layup

 

[andalusian]

I'm not talking about their games. I'm talking about the rationalization on this forum after finding out that we traded two picks for Roco was that we could at least recover one for him. We didn't.

Everyone (including me) was also thrilled with him the first year but he fell off a cliff in year 2.

I have to say I was not thrilled. I thought he was a fine replacement to Hark / Aminu - but I did not think he would be better than both so have not considered him such a great addition, especially since he basically replaced Ariza. I would have been happier if he was added to Ariza. I guess I paid a little more attention to his time in Philli and was never as excited about him. He is a fine player, but the Blazers sure did downgrade when they moved from Aminu / Harkless in the defensive wings position.

GP2 on the other hand, I am excited about. He solves a real problem the Blazers have not been able to handle for a very, very long time.

 

[riverman]

I'm not talking about their games. I'm talking about the rationalization on this forum after finding out that we traded two picks for Roco was that we could at least recover one for him. We didn't.

Everyone (including me) was also thrilled with him the first year but he fell off a cliff in year 2.

Roco could have just as easily walked for nothing like Lamarcus did....he wasn't part of Chauncey's plan and didn't want to be. Last game for the Blazers Roco shot 0-8 from the field..and he hurt Nurk's ability to stay out of foul trouble by gambling on defense and breaking the string constantly. I am glad he's gone...Winslow would eat his lunch on defense and rebounding.

 

[Wade Garrett]

We haven't had a point of attack defender since Wes Mathews and GPII is a way better ball handler than Wes ever was with his chest high dribble...Wes couldn't finish a layup in the open court many times either but he could shut down James Harden....GPII can shut down anybody and finish a layup

Which leads right into 'ChaunceyBall"...
Get it and GOOOOOO is what I was seeing.
Hard nosed, in your face, defense brought by Winslow and Hart, (and now GPII) and Keon/Anfernee pushing it fast.
I have often complained about the lack of size on this team, and although they didn't get any taller, they got bigger, as in muscular, strong,
and with a faster tempo (yes, you too Dame!) height may not be as crucial as I once thought.
Look, I am not thinking a playoff run, or anything like that, but I can't remember the last time being so excited about a Blazer team as I am this one.

 

[Natebishop3]

I have to say I was not thrilled. I thought he was a fine replacement to Hark / Aminu - but I did not think he would be better than both so have not considered him such a great addition, especially since he basically replaced Ariza. I would have been happier if he was added to Ariza. I guess I paid a little more attention to his time in Philli and was never as excited about him. He is a fine player, but the Blazers sure did downgrade when they moved from Aminu / Harkless in the defensive wings position.

GP2 on the other hand, I am excited about. He solves a real problem the Blazers have not been able to handle for a very, very long time.

I agree that GP solves a problem, but there is a new problem. Our two highest paid players, who also happen to be the main reason for that problem which Gary addresses, play the same position as GP and now we have to figure out who should be on the floor.

 

[Strenuus]

Should this be GP2 nickname the next year?

I imagine every game this year I watch him I will be thinking if his addition is worth a year of the Blazers being hard capped.

Yes its unfair, as its not his fault he is the 7th guard Cronin put on the roster, or that Cronin decided to hard cap the Blazers. But I don't think I'll be able to help but judge Payton in this context.

That's your fault then.

 

[blazedanugz]

What is this thread

 

[andalusian]

I agree that GP solves a problem, but there is a new problem. Our two highest paid players, who also happen to be the main reason for that problem which Gary addresses, play the same position as GP and now we have to figure out who should be on the floor.

But they don't. GP2 is not a guard on offense. He is a PF on offense. The Blazers always tried to hide Dame / CJ on defense - they will continue to do so, only now they have a much better tool to throw against quick guards.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

He's rated one of the most effective defensive players in the league. Seems reasonable to hard cap yourself to get him if you knew you had no shot at Durant, Ayton, etc.

Not understanding the issue.

 

[Wade Garrett]

Roco could have just as easily walked for nothing like Lamarcus did....he wasn't part of Chauncey's plan and didn't want to be. Last game for the Blazers Roco shot 0-8 from the field..and he hurt Nurk's ability to stay out of foul trouble by gambling on defense and breaking the string constantly. I am glad he's gone...Winslow would eat his lunch on defense and rebounding.

I've said it 100 times before..(no, really, I have!!), and I'll say it again...
roco was/is a fucking joke. He was a detriment to this team, not an asset.
the fact that Joe got more than a ham sandwich from a lotto deli for him was a coux.

 

[Blazer Freak]

He's rated one of the most effective defensive players in the league. Seems reasonable to hard cap yourself to get him if you knew you had no shot at Durant, Ayton, etc.

Not understanding the issue.

Thinking about everything that's been said since Cronin got the job, he's mentioned before this is not a 1 year turn around. I think all the moves we've made so far are aiming toward next summer. We've added two defensive pieces that fit what Chauncey wants to do for THIS season. GP2 is at a decent price, Nurk's contract is at a good salary number to include in trades, Ant as well. I think the moves made so far were to 1) appease Dame for this season and 2) set us up financially to be able to consolidate pieces NEXT offseason in a trade for a big star.

This season is about getting a few guys Dame wanted, competing, and truly seeing how the team looks with a new coach, new system and Dame fully healthy. If we make playoffs, we give the pick to CHI and are clear to trade, Nurk, Ant, Sharpe, etc with no restrictions AND with a clear runway of 3 years to be in the LT with no repeater tax. It also allows us a year to see what Sharpe can potentially be.

Was this an A+ offseason and completely turn the roster around? Absolutely not. I'd give it a solid B, with a lot of hope for the future and potential to either completely reset or make the big move. Look at TOR, they took Barnes #4 last year and now he is THE piece in a potential KD trade. Obviously I don't expect Sharpe to have that kind of immediate impact, but I think it goes to show a lot can change in one year.