Harden trade?

[Scalma]

You need more than 1 "star" to win a title, but those stars have to complement each other rather than competing.

None of us know what is inside Harden's head, but it sure seems as if he sees his best team-mates as rivals. Putting him with a selfish headcase like Westbrook was crazy. Putting him with CP seemed to work and I wonder whose idea it was to break them up.

All this is a roundabout way of saying we need to get Dame a team-mate who is better than CJ and a better fit - and Harden isn't it. Better player, but an even worse fit. Gutting the team to acquire him would be suicide.

how is harden a worse fit than CJ lololol. Both are high usage, but the playmaking and scoring ability can’t even be compared. Harden could also theoretically run the second unit a lot better than CJ. And dame has always welcomed and even encouraged the idea of playing off the ball more.

 

[RR7]

Harden didn't work with Dwight Howard.
Harden didn't work with Melo.
Harden didn't work with Chris Paul.
Harden didn't work with Westbrook.

Why does anyone think Harden would work with Dame?

Should we then say Dame didn't work with Aldridge. Dame didn't work with Nurk. Dame didn't work with CJ. Dame didn't work with Melo?

Also listing Carmelo is weird, he played 10 games there.

Harden is burnt out come playoff team carrying a heavy load. Imagine that load lightened playing alongside Dame and Nurk.

 

[Buffalo Custard]

how is harden a worse fit than CJ lololol. Both are high usage, but the playmaking and scoring ability can’t even be compared. Harden could also theoretically run the second unit a lot better than CJ. And dame has always welcomed and even encouraged the idea of playing off the ball more.

Westbrook is also a better player than CJ - on paper. Would you gut the team to acquire him? There are plenty of things about CJ I don't like, but at least he never seems to resent Dame. The revolving door around Harden strongly suggests he just can't get along with his team-mates.

 

[Scalma]

Should we then say Dame didn't work with Aldridge. Dame didn't work with Nurk. Dame didn't work with CJ. Dame didn't work with Melo?

Also listing Carmelo is weird, he played 10 games there.

Harden is burnt out come playoff team carrying a heavy load. Imagine that load lightened playing alongside Dame and Nurk.

Right? Harden and Paul were good together, took a prime Warriors 7 games to beat them, and that’s the closest comp to a theoretical Harden, Dame pairing. Now replace Capela with Nurkic and Ariza with RoCo. We’d be in business

 

[Buffalo Custard]

 

[Buffalo Custard]

Should we then say Dame didn't work with Aldridge. Dame didn't work with Nurk. Dame didn't work with CJ. Dame didn't work with Melo?

Also listing Carmelo is weird, he played 10 games there.

Harden is burnt out come playoff team carrying a heavy load. Imagine that load lightened playing alongside Dame and Nurk.

Say what? When did Dame have any friction with Nurk, CJ, or Melo? Any issues with Aldridge were all on his side, not Dame's.

 

[RR7]

Say what? When did Dame have any friction with Nurk, CJ, or Melo? Any issues with Aldridge were all on his side, not Dame's.

He just said didn't work. SOrry if I mistook that to mean they didn't win together. If it's about friction, well, if they win, I don't give a shit! And if they don't well, everyone wants to trade CJ anyways, so you ride a year of Harden, and then trade him in the offseason if it isn't a fit.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Why would I want a top50 all time player on my team?

You would unless he didn't want to be there.

 

[blazerkor]

how is harden a worse fit than CJ lololol. Both are high usage, but the playmaking and scoring ability can’t even be compared. Harden could also theoretically run the second unit a lot better than CJ. And dame has always welcomed and even encouraged the idea of playing off the ball more.

He's the same kind of bad fit as CJ but he is an average defender, where CJ is a terrible defender and he does everything CJ does on offense at like 4 times the level CJ does and gets to the line more than anyone in the game. So yeah he isn't the ideal HOFer to put next to Dame but we would be automatically worlds better.

If we could pull off a trade for him, I would still look to flip him right away for a piece of equal value that fit better on our team but if that weren't possible I'd still pull the trigger any trade that left us with the right pieces around Dame and Harden to win a chip. It might not be the most complementary back court in the history of the league but it might be the best.

 

[RR7]

Harden's defense on the perimeter isn't good, but he's stout on the block. Probably because he's stout. But, that serves well as the best place generally to "hide" him on defense, against an opponents 2nd best post player, if they are playing a traditional PF/C lineup. If not, he gets the shittiest offensive player, Dame the 2nd, etc. Jones and Covington are getting the strong assignments each night.

In that way, his defense is better for us than CJ's, because CJ isn't helping in the post at all.

 

[JoshuaHall]

I would do this:

CJ, Simons, Little, Trent Jr, Collins, 3 1st round picks for Harden, Tucker

Harden is one of the great players of all time. If CP3/Harden can get a 3-2 lead in WCF against Dynasty Warriors, then Dame/Harden can go further. I love CJ, but this is a title team:

Dame/Harden
Harden/Hood
PJ Tucker/Jones Jr
Covington/Melo
Nurkic/Kanter

are you on drugs

 

[THE HCP]

are you on drugs

Oh shit, you must be new. Yes he is.

 

[Voodoo]

I hate harden, but I would do that trade. It would dramatically change the dynamic of the team, and I think in a good way. What I think would be the right approach though would be to let Harden initiate the offense in that setup most of the time, as Dame plays off the ball much more effectively than Harden.

But, as someone else mentioned, think of how insanely lethal our second unit would be with Harden running it rather than CJ. Wow, we’d be a nearly unstoppable juggernaut offensively with that one two punch.

 

[Voodoo]

Let me clarify, that I would only do the trade in the OP or a trade of equal value he was proposing. That trade is so incredibly lopsided that you’re getting insane returns it would be astronomically foolish to pass something like that up.

If a more even trade were required I would be quite a bit more hesitant, but would probably still do it.

 

[mook]

You clear out anything necessary other than Dame and Nurk to make it happen, and you seriously consider Nurk. I dislike Harden probably more than any player in the league, but there's no denying his greatness. He'd eventually burn his bridges here, I suspect, but we'd be title contenders until he did. When you have a prime Dame, you should be doing everything to contend.

 

[BonesJones]

Fuck no

 

[Natebishop3]

Should we then say Dame didn't work with Aldridge. Dame didn't work with Nurk. Dame didn't work with CJ. Dame didn't work with Melo?

Also listing Carmelo is weird, he played 10 games there.

Harden is burnt out come playoff team carrying a heavy load. Imagine that load lightened playing alongside Dame and Nurk.

I'm talking about having a falling out. Harden drove away pretty much every "star" player that the Rockets have tried to put around him. Outside of LMA, which I don't think was Dame's fault at all, every star player we have brought into Portland has been in love with Dame.

CJ
Nurk
Melo

They're all extremely loyal to Dame. Basically family.

 

[RR7]

I'm talking about having a falling out. Harden drove away pretty much every "star" player that the Rockets have tried to put around him. Outside of LMA, which I don't think was Dame's fault at all, every star player we have brought into Portland has been in love with Dame.

CJ
Nurk
Melo

They're all extremely loyal to Dame. Basically family.

Sounds like a good reason to see if any of that dame magic can rub off on harden, then, IMO.

 

[riverman]

Portland doesn't buy enough refs to justify bringing Harden in....he can flop all day in red and black and won't get a call.

 

[illmatic99]

Think Sac might be a target.

Bagley + Hield + picks for James might be a decent look.

Bet Harde would hate it, but he has no say in this.

 

[blazerkor]

Think Sac might be a target.

Bagley + Hield + picks for James might be a decent look.

Bet Harde would hate it, but he has no say in this.

Wow, first of all the Rockets better be able to do way better than that. Second of all, Harden is showing that he will sit before he plays for a team he doesn't want to. Only contenders will bid on him. I know you don't like it but he has control.

 

[e_blazer]

Think Sac might be a target.

Bagley + Hield + picks for James might be a decent look.

Bet Harde would hate it, but he has no say in this.

He can say that he won't re-sign with Sacramento. Would the Kings be willing to give up that much for a rental of a disgruntled Harden? Doubt it.

 

[illmatic99]

Wow, first of all the Rockets better be able to do way better than that. Second of all, Harden is showing that he will sit before he plays for a team he doesn't want to. Only contenders will bid on him. I know you don't like it but he has control.

When was the last time a top 5 player actually sat out a season out of spite?

 

[Buffalo Custard]

When was the last time a top 5 player actually sat out a season out of spite?

Leonard.

 

[illmatic99]

Leonard.

He was hurt in San Antonio.

 

[Buffalo Custard]

Question for the more CBA knowledgable. A player sits out with multiple years left on his contract. Does the team have to pay him to retain his rights? If they say he is in breach of contract and refuse to pay him does he become a free agent?

If the team can't retain his rights without paying him, that leaves them with no leverage!

 

[Buffalo Custard]

He was hurt in San Antonio.

His feelings maybe. The Drs said he was fine to play. Even Pops, who deserves a high degree of credibility, publicly said he could play.

 

[blazerkor]

When was the last time a top 5 player actually sat out a season out of spite?

No one has to. They just threaten it or show up and sleep walk through games. Pretty much when a star player demands a trade, the request is granted.

See Jimmy Butler twice, Paul George twice, Chris Paul, Kyrie Irving, Kristaps Porzingis and the list goes on as you go back through time Vince Carter sat out games and played with little effort to get out of Toronto, Ray Allen forced the trade that sent him from Milwaukee to Seattle, Kobe did the opposite and had Shaq traded away, Stephon Marbury did it from Minny to Jersey at the height of his career, Garnett did it to get to Boston and he was the best Wolve of all time, Dennis Rodman forced the trade that got him on the Bulls, Charles Barkley forced the Sixers to trade him by turning down his effort and turning up his attitude. It goes back to Kareem and Wilt both doing it.

The players have the power. No one has ever had to sit out a whole season and one of the only all NBAers to not get traded when making a demand and sitting games was Hakeem in the early 90s. The fact is, you want the best player on your team to want to be there or you want the best compensation you can get in a trade for him. Disgruntled players not only poison teams but a team's reaction to a trade demand can seriously poison all players' perception of that franchise, which can cause huge problems in free agency. Smart owners and GMs understand this and when a player demands a trade they move him as quick as possible so they get the most in return before opposing GMs feel they have the upper hand.

 

[blazerkor]

Question for the more CBA knowledgable. A player sits out with multiple years left on his contract. Does the team have to pay him to retain his rights? If they say he is in breach of contract and refuse to pay him does he become a free agent?

If the team can't retain his rights without paying him, that leaves them with no leverage!

If a player sits out and can't give a good reason (injury) then the team does not have to pay him and they keep his rights. That might make it seem like a good idea for a team to call a players bluff but doing so seriously damages the team's reputation around the league with all of the players.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Harden has this season and next on his contract then can be a free agent and leave. People are saying three years but that is not true because he can opt out of the final year, the team has no control over that.

Teams can technically fine players for not playing, but the player can just pull a Kawhi and not play because they are hurt/sore/etc.

In practice if a player is sitting the team will trade him in a few weeks. Eventually the team gets sick of the headache and they hit a point where trade offers are not increasing in value.