Hart to Start (1 Viewer)

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
blazerfan11 said:
When did Winslow show that he is not at that level as a Trail Blazer? What I've seen is a guy who plays 100% on defense always against anyone, passes the ball and makes teammates better, and pushes the pace on offense.
If the Blazers started Winslow and Hart together we'd be seeing a much better effort on both ends of the court.
Click to expand...

Who comes off the bench; Dame?
 
blazerfan11 said:
I'm saying the drop from Josh Hart the shooting guard to Josh Hart the small forward in the current lineup is worse than the drop from Norman Powell the shooting guard to Norman Powell the small forward.
I am not saying Josh Hart is a worse small forward than Norman Powell. Neither guy should be playing small forward.
I'm saying, after watching Josh Hart explode as the shooting guard many of us had been hoping for, now having to watch him in a much diminished role as a small forward is much sadder than whatever was taken away from Norman Powell when he was forced to play small forward.
Whether that's true isn't as important as what Billup and Cronin have done to Josh Hart.
It's much sadder to see it done to Josh Hart than Norman Powell, I think most of us can agree on that.
Click to expand...

according to 82games, Hart was better in New Orleans as a SF than he was as a SG. I don't think there will be a big drop-off if he's the starting SF rather than the starting SG

now, it's painfully obvious that olshey dug a deep hole for the Blazers in terms of positional size at the wing. His collection of SG's was smaller than average; and his collection of SF's was much smaller than average. Cronin hasn't dug out of that hole yet. Hart-Nas-Sharpe are all in the 6'4-6'5 range when most teams are in the 6'6-6'8 range.

Blazers are undersized and I think that 'disadvantage' may be magnified by Grant's poor rebounding at PF

I'm willing to give the Dame/Ant combo a chance; at least a half-season to see if it's enough different from Dame/CJ to see if it will work when Dame/CJ never really did. But Portland's undersize problem started at starting SG with CJ; that echoed thru the rest of the roster. And it could repeat with Ant. If it does, than it would seem a logical solve would be trading Ant for a good PF and then running with a wing rotation of Hart/Sharpe at SG, and maybe Grant/Little/Walker at SF
 
Last edited:
blazerfan11 said:
Edit: At any rate, the Josh Hart at small forward issue isn't addressing the bigger problem, which is Lillard and McSimons starting in the backcourt.
.
Click to expand...

lol..."McSimons"....I like that one

I will say that in some ways, a Grant/Winslow combo at forward makes sense if you believe the perimeter shooting of Dame/Grant/Simons can keep the floor spread. The major issue is that Winslow's injury history makes him undependable as a starter. Of course, the same is true for Nurk
 
wizenheimer said:
according to 82games, Hart was better in New Orleans as a SF than he was as a SG. I don't think there will be a big drop-off if he's the starting SF rather than the starting SG

now, it's painfully obvious that olshey dug a deep hole for the Blazers in terms of positional size at the wing. His collection of SG's was smaller than average; and his collection of SF's was much smaller than average. Cronin hasn't dug out of that hole yet. Hart-Nas-Sharpe are all in the 6'4-6'5 range when most teams are in the 6'6-6'8 range.
Click to expand...

wizenheimer said:
I like 82games but I've always been skeptical about their assignments. Powell hasn't played 15 minutes at SF for every 1 at SG...IMO. So that brings into question their numbers for both Powell and the opponents in terms of SG vs SF
Click to expand...
 
Josh just so passive out there. Not contributing at all because he just keeps deferring. That's not the best way to maximize talent-- perhaps a bench role is the best for him.
 
wizenheimer said:
yes, and I don't think there will be. Apparently you do?
Click to expand...
You used 82games to affirm your feelings. Yet stated when talking about Powell you didn't believe them.

Yes, I have reservations about Hart playing SF.
 
blazerfan11 said:
Simons?
Click to expand...
people here (including our staff) are so dismissive of that notion, but it's OK to stagger Dame/Ant and let them each cook in separate lineups for 10-15 mins a game. He got paid already; i doubt he'd gripe about starting since he will be in finishing lineups anyway.

And he'd be a better playmaker leading the second unit than CJ was given his inclination to do more than chuck.
 
illmatic99 said:
Josh just so passive out there. Not contributing at all because he just keeps deferring. That's not the best way to maximize talent-- perhaps a bench role is the best for him.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say he is passive but if you are saying that then I contend that having someone who is passive is better to be in our starting lineup when we have a lot of scorers already then someone coming off the bench (where we need the scouring punch).
 
SlyPokerCat said:
You used 82games to affirm your feelings. Yet stated when talking about Powell you didn't believe them.

Yes, I have reservations about Hart playing SF.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to go back and figure out the context of whatever post of mine you dredged up to try and make for a gotcha moment. Especially considering that in the post earlier in this thread you took exception too, I took the time to explain my reasoning and frame some context. I saw Powell at SF and I've seen Hart at SF, and there's no doubt at all in my mind that Hart is much more suited to the position than Powell.

as far as Hart as the staring SF, I'd say he's at least as good as any available at the position. Maybe Grant would be better at SF if Winslow was PF. But at this point, IMO, Hart is a better alternative than the inexperienced Sharpe or the wildly inconsistent Little with his injury history.
 
KeepOnRollin said:
I wouldn't say he is passive but if you are saying that then I contend that having someone who is passive is better to be in our starting lineup when we have a lot of scorers already then someone coming off the bench (where we need the scouring punch).
Click to expand...
Hart is supposed to be one of those scorers.
 
I am actually really disappointed with Little’s play. I was really hoping that we could have had Hart come off the bench or maybe even start at the 2 guard.
 
I think a lot of this worry is overblown. Who gets the start isn't as important as who logs the minutes and who is in the closing lineup the last 5 minutes

Unless you have multiple all-stars in the starting unit, and unless you have a legitimate 6th man or dynamic scorer coming off the bench, then the roles are pretty interchangeable. And Portland has none of those components
 
illmatic99 said:
people here (including our staff) are so dismissive of that notion, but it's OK to stagger Dame/Ant and let them each cook in separate lineups for 10-15 mins a game. He got paid already; i doubt he'd gripe about starting since he will be in finishing lineups anyway.

And he'd be a better playmaker leading the second unit than CJ was given his inclination to do more than chuck.
Click to expand...

If Simons doesn't start he won't be able to play 35-40 minutes per game, he can't play nonstop once the starters come out.

I'm not sure what the ultimate split of minutes your trying to propose with Simons not starting; should he just be Dame's primary backup? That doesn't make sense to pay $100 million as the second highest paid player on the team playing 13 minutes per game? If your only trying to stagger minutes and each plays over 30, well that can be done with both players starting.

There is no way the Blazers will have Simons come off the bench. Its crazy that fans are suggesting it.

Can you ever think of a team that had their second highest paid player come off the bench? Ginobili is the only elite player I can think of that happening, and the Blazers are not a title contending team like that Spurs dynasty.
 
wizenheimer said:
I think a lot of this worry is overblown. Who gets the start isn't as important as who logs the minutes and who is in the closing lineup the last 5 minutes

Unless you have multiple all-stars in the starting unit, and unless you have a legitimate 6th man or dynamic scorer coming off the bench, then the roles are pretty interchangeable. And Portland has none of those components
Click to expand...

I basically agree with this; having Simons start or not start won't change anything. Assuming he is playing 32 minutes per game either way with him and Dame are staggered on both units.

The Blazers problems are #1 lack of talent......... distant #2 lack of height (all Guards). Having Simons starting or on the bench doesn't solve either one.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
If Simons doesn't start he won't be able to play 35-40 minutes per game, he can't play nonstop once the starters come out.

I'm not sure what the ultimate split of minutes your trying to propose with Simons not starting; should he just be Dame's primary backup? That doesn't make sense to pay $100 million as the second highest paid player on the team playing 13 minutes per game? If your only trying to stagger minutes and each plays over 30, well that can be done with both players starting.

There is no way the Blazers will have Simons come off the bench. Its crazy that fans are suggesting it.

Can you ever think of a team that had their second highest paid player come off the bench? Ginobili is the only elite player I can think of that happening, and the Blazers are not a title contending team like that Spurs dynasty.
Click to expand...

Going back in time, I seem to recall Havilicek playing off the bench regularly, however, that may have been later in his career. My memory may not be accurate though.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
If Simons doesn't start he won't be able to play 35-40 minutes per game, he can't play nonstop once the starters come out.

I'm not sure what the ultimate split of minutes your trying to propose with Simons not starting; should he just be Dame's primary backup? That doesn't make sense to pay $100 million as the second highest paid player on the team playing 13 minutes per game? If your only trying to stagger minutes and each plays over 30, well that can be done with both players starting.

There is no way the Blazers will have Simons come off the bench. Its crazy that fans are suggesting it.

Can you ever think of a team that had their second highest paid player come off the bench? Ginobili is the only elite player I can think of that happening, and the Blazers are not a title contending team like that Spurs dynasty.
Click to expand...

It's not uncommon for an NBA team to let salaries impact playing time decisions. The alternative would be to admit that the GM (gasp) made a mistake!
 
  • Like
Reactions: DUB
Tyler Herro just got a 130 mil contract and will come off the bench again. Sure the contract won't start until next season and he's not the second highest paid player on the team, but the example remains.

Ant would still get 30-35 mpg off the bench; he would just play about 15-20 mpg without Dame instead of 10-15 like he is now. not sure why him coming of the bench is such a big deal.
 
illmatic99 said:
Tyler Herro just got a 130 mil contract and will come off the bench again. Sure the contract won't start until next season and he's not the second highest paid player on the team, but the example remains.

Ant would still get 30-35 mpg off the bench; he would just play about 15-20 mpg without Dame instead of 10-15 like he is now. not sure why him coming of the bench is such a big deal.
Click to expand...

Herro is starting this season
 
illmatic99 said:
Ant would still get 30-35 mpg off the bench; he would just play about 15-20 mpg without Dame instead of 10-15 like he is now. not sure why him coming of the bench is such a big deal.
Click to expand...
Not to pick nits, but Dame would have to be playing only 28-33 mpg for there to be 15-20 mpg of non-Dame court time available for Simons. As it stands, I assume the current plan is already for Simons to play during all minutes Dame is off the court. If that's the case, I don't see how bringing him off the bench helps anything.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Not to pick nits, but Dame would have to be playing only 28-33 mpg for there to be 15-20 mpg of non-Dame court time available for Simons. As it stands, I assume the current plan is already for Simons to play during all minutes Dame is off the court. If that's the case, I don't see how bringing him off the bench helps anything.
Click to expand...
Pairing one shooter with weak defense with a strong defensive guard both on the starting unit and off the bench is the reason....balance on both sides of the court...keeps the team from having to dig out of big holes like the game last night...blown out in the first qtr and no 3 pt defense...Dame with Hart and Ant with Payton or Keon works for me
 
riverman said:
Pairing one shooter with weak defense with a strong defensive guard both on the starting unit and off the bench is the reason....balance on both sides of the court...keeps the team from having to dig out of big holes like the game last night...blown out in the first qtr and no 3 pt defense...Dame with Hart and Ant with Payton or Keon works for me
Click to expand...
Do you expect Ant to only play when Dame is off the court? How many (or few) mpg do you think Ant should be given?
 
Example rotations:

Start: Dame/Hart/Winslow/Grant/Nurk

6 min mark 1st quarter -- sub Ant for Hart; Nas for Winslow; Watford for Nurk
(Dame/Ant/Nas/Grant/Watford)

3 min mark 1st quarter -- sub GP2 for Dame; Sharpe for Grant
(Ant/GP2/Sharpe/Nas/Watford)

9 min mark 2nd quarter: Sub Nurk for Watford, Hart for Sharpe
(Ant/GP2/Hart/Nas/Nurk)

6 min mark 2nd quarter: Sub Dame for Ant; Grant for Nas
(Dame/GP2/ Hart/Grant/Nurk)

3 min mark 2nd quarter: Sub Ant for GP2; Winslow for Nurk.
(Dame/Ant/Hart/Winslow/Grant)


In the first half, this rotation would approx translate to:

Dame - 15 min
Ant - 15 min
Hart - 15 min
Grant - 15 min
Nurk - 12 min
Nas- 12 min
GP2 - 9 min
Winslow - 9 min
Sharpe - 6 min

Closely repeat in the 2nd half the same cycle but bring back Dame/Ant early so they can get ~ 3 extra minutes to end with 33 each. Take those 6 minutes from Hart/Nas/GP2 in the second half.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Not to pick nits, but Dame would have to be playing only 28-33 mpg for there to be 15-20 mpg of non-Dame court time available for Simons. As it stands, I assume the current plan is already for Simons to play during all minutes Dame is off the court. If that's the case, I don't see how bringing him off the bench helps anything.
Click to expand...
The point is not only to increase the time Dame/Ant spend apart. It's to maximize Hart/others as well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top