Trade Hart/Winslow/Didi/Keon/pick or CJ/Norm/Nance/Roco?

[calvin natt]

This comment doesn't make sense. One of the most important skills of a GM is managing the owner, especially the worse the owner is. Say what you want about Neil, and he had plenty of faults, but he was pretty good at that with both Paul and Jody.

Then maybe we need to better define what exactly “managing the owner” means. Did Neil manage up or just take orders and keep them happy? How is that managing them?

 

[Hoopguru]

We can debate the merits of the trade and how much of the blame falls on the Vulcans, but it seems to me there is a more fundamental issue here.

Does Olshey strike you as the type of boss who would surround himself with people who are smarter than him, or with mediocre yes men?

Yes men so he wasn't threatened. Just my opinion

 

[James lamphear]

The trades was about fit in billups system. CJ nice offense but didn't play defense and Roco good off ball defender but not good on ball defender plus Nance took his starting position before getting hurt and he was totally lost in billups defensive scheme. Powell was over rated as a defender and Nance who knows never stay healthy to get a good read how he would fit in. Then on offense you got CJ and Powell ball stoppers and that's probably not what billups offense was really about. The players we got back majority of them are decent defenders that actually when everyone was playing this was better defensive team. Plus you seen more passing too. So what it looked like the Blazers went for players that fit a system because a team that's play well together will majority of the time will come out of head of things.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Yes men so he wasn't threatened. Just my opinion

This has been my concern as well. I have been impressed by how deliberately Cronin answers questions and seemingly decisive he has been.

He got about what I thought was likely, though I was hoping for a miracle.

Just hoping that it was being smart, cool headed, and calculated that allowed him to survive that long under Olshey.

 

[Hoopguru]

This has been my concern as well. I have been impressed by how deliberately Cronin answers questions and seemingly decisive he has been.

He got about what I thought was likely, though I was hoping for a miracle.

Just hoping that it was being smart, cool headed, and calculated that allowed him to survive that long under Olshey.

Sure seems like a super nice dude and one of those guys everyone gets along with, Im sure you correct above. In his intro interview I recall him saying he's lasted because he stays out of peoples way. Maybe he was talking about Neil?

 

[Phatguysrule]

Sure seems like a super nice dude and one of those guys everyone gets along with, Im sure you correct above. In his intro interview I recall him saying he's lasted because he stays out of peoples way. Maybe he was talking about Neil?

Could well be. Fingers crossed. I was hoping he'd knock our socks off with the CJ deal... I just never could find a path to actually making that happen.

He's got to be good or we're in for a rough couple years, IMO.

 

[BonesJones]

I didn't see the sourced report, can you share that link here? Which side offered the trade and which one turned it down?

...do you not remember trading CJ McCollum for Josh Hart and the Pelicans pick, which was 8th at the time?

 

[BonesJones]

People just say this without backing it up. What gave you the notion that this was true? Who'd you hear this from?

Crickets

 

[Phatguysrule]

People just say this without backing it up. What gave you the notion that this was true? Who'd you hear this from?

What other guards like Norm with a similar contract was dealt? Was that player dealt for long 2 way wing or PF?

If people wanted that they probably would have made trades like that, don't you think?

Norm isn't as valuable as what we needed in return. That's why we had a glut of those guys on our roster. And his contract is on the long side for his age.

You known what I heard? Exactly nobody from any other market offering things we need for Norman Powell.

If teams/markets wanted him they would have been talking about it.

 

[Phatguysrule]

So you're telling me that the Pelicans were willing to give up the 8th pick, and in the case where the trade worked out for them, weren't willing to give up the 8th pick?

That doesn't make any sense to me.

I'm telling you they wanted to make sure they got a lotto pick if they made the playoffs. They didn't want to miss out on that opportunity and they knew Cronin's back was to the wall because nobody else wanted CJ and his contract very much.

What was Cronin going to do, not trade CJ? The Pels had ALL the leverage. Which explains why Cronin made the Clippers trade so early, to remove some of the ammunition teams like the Pels had over him and were obviously using in the CJ negotiations.

It seems to me that if Cronin held out on the Clips deal the lotto pick wouldn't have even been in play.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Crickets

No, I replied. Didn't see your post yesterday for some reason.

In fact, there is still no notification that you replied to my post at all. I'm not sure why that would be.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I think that's correct, but that Olshey promoted him.

BTW, does it bother anybody that our cap situation has been a mess for years - and that Cronin was supposed to be our cap expert?

It sounded to me liked Olshey shit canned people who were ahead of him and Cronin just kind of rose through the ranks that way.

Which could just mean he's smart enough to do his job well and not to get into a dick measuring contest with his boss.

 

[Tince]

...do you not remember trading CJ McCollum for Josh Hart and the Pelicans pick, which was 8th at the time?

I do. I don't recall the alternate trade that you said was on the table being sourced and reported, which is what I was asking you to share. I agreed with you that I would've taken the trade you brought up.

 

[e_blazer]

I'm telling you they wanted to make sure they got a lotto pick if they made the playoffs. They didn't want to miss out on that opportunity and they knew Cronin's back was to the wall because nobody else wanted CJ and his contract very much.

What was Cronin going to do, not trade CJ? The Pels had ALL the leverage. Which explains why Cronin made the Clippers trade so early, to remove some of the ammunition teams like the Pels had over him and were obviously using in the CJ negotiations.

It seems to me that if Cronin held out on the Clips deal the lotto pick wouldn't have even been in play.

I think this is exactly right. Everyone knew Cronin had to get under the tax threshold and there was no realistic way to do that without trading CJ and Norm.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I think this is exactly right. Everyone knew Cronin had to get under the tax threshold and there was no realistic way to do that without trading CJ and Norm.

False. The Blazers could've traded Roco on his own and got under the tax, they were only a couple million over, not tens of millions.

There were even ways to keep all of Roco, CJ, Norm, Nance and traded away McLemore, Snell, Zeller, sign scrubs to small prorated rest of the season contracts and duck the tax. The Rockets did this a few years ago (with a compentent GM like Morey).

The Blazers with a "cap guru" leading the franchise couldn't figure this out, instead bending over backwards to other GM's.

I'm not saying the Blazers should have made no trades at the deadline, clearly the team was bad and should have been making moves to add talent either now or long term. But the justification of taking shit returns on talent because the Blazers "had" to do it to get under the tax is ridiculous.

 

[e_blazer]

False. The Blazers could've traded Roco on his own and got under the tax, they were only a couple million over, not tens of millions.

There were even ways to keep all of Roco, CJ, Norm, Nance and traded away McLemore, Snell, Zeller, sign scrubs to rest of the season contracts and duck the tax. The Rockets did this a few years ago (with a compentent GM like Morey).

The Blazers with a "cap guru" leading the franchise couldn't figure this out, instead bending over backwards to other GM's.

I'm not saying the Blazers should have made no trades at the deadline, clearly the team was bad and should have been making moves to add talent either now or long term. But the justification of taking shit returns on talent because the Blazers "had" to do it to get under the tax is ridiculous.

Technically, that’s true, but they also wanted to position themselves for moves they plan to make this summer. Look, I get that Cronin could have gotten more back than he did, but those trades would have likely been for similar players. The old NBA maxim of “don’t trade big for small” is still a thing. Cronin’s plan got dinged up when the Lakers failed to make the playoffs and Paul George got sick. I don’t know that blaming Cronin for that is a legitimate complaint, but he still has options to make necessary moves. He should get the chance to do it, IMO.

 

[HansenYang]

I think this is exactly right. Everyone knew Cronin had to get under the tax threshold and there was no realistic way to do that without trading CJ and Norm.

I disagree. We were only $3m-$4m over the lux tax line. We could have traded RoCo for someone making $9M or less and be out of the tax.

I'm sure Phoenix would have been open for a Saric/RoCo swap. Cleveland with a Osman/RoCo swap. Atlanta with Wright. Chicago with DJJ (although Portland would have to find someone else to take DJJ).

RoCo had enough value that someone would have taken him for straight salary relief. To argue we HAD to trade more assets to get under the lux tax line is asinine.

 

[wizenheimer]

it wasn't just the tax line this season....I think it was obvious the Vulcans ordered Cronin to cut lots of future salary as well. And CJ-Powell-Nance represented 151M in future salary

 

[blazerkor]

Technically, that’s true, but they also wanted to position themselves for moves they plan to make this summer. Look, I get that Cronin could have gotten more back than he did, but those trades would have likely been for similar players. The old NBA maxim of “don’t trade big for small” is still a thing. Cronin’s plan got dinged up when the Lakers failed to make the playoffs and Paul George got sick. I don’t know that blaming Cronin for that is a legitimate complaint, but he still has options to make necessary moves. He should get the chance to do it, IMO.

I don't think Cronin should get a chance to do anything more and of course blaming him for the pick being so tenuous is legitimate. If the situation that cost us the pick happened then it's pretty obvious the risk didn't pay off so Cronin gets left holding the bag... he doesn't get to chalk it up to bad luck when there are obvious assets between the pick that didn't convey and the 2025 Bucks pick he let NOLA put conditions on, that could have better salvaged what happened, in case it did.

It's crazy that so many in here are taking all blame from and wanting to give more chances to a guy that is not only culpable for the return we didn't get on the players we traded this season but also shares the stench of all of Olshey's bungling failures. Why should we still want this guy or anyone associated with the last decade running our team?

 

[blazerkor]

it wasn't just the tax line this season....I think it was obvious the Vulcans ordered Cronin to cut lots of future salary as well. And CJ-Powell-Nance represented 151M in future salary

That being said if Cronin had the kind of backbone it's going to take to manage the expectations of this ownership group he should have been able to convince them and the rest of the league that the only pressing need was to get under the tax (which as a few in here have already said should have been easy) and that if it needed to the dumping of future salary could easily wait until the off season unless we got good value while doing it at the trade deadline.

Maybe Cronin thought he got good value at the trade deadline but he was the one that said that everyone knew they had to get under the tax and that affected things... either way he hasn't shown himself to be great and since he's not the actual GM, I don't see why we'd make him the permanent GM unless he had done a great job. The idea that there isn't a list of candidates a mile long that would kill to get this job is bullshit... one of them should get the permanent job before a guy who did such a weak job when given the chance and is inseparably tied to all of the things that our front office did we hated over the last decade under Olshey.

 

[e_blazer]

I don't think Cronin should get a chance to do anything more and of course blaming him for the pick being so tenuous is legitimate. If the situation that cost us the pick happened then it's pretty obvious the risk didn't pay off so Cronin gets left holding the bag... he doesn't get to chalk it up to bad luck when there are obvious assets between the pick that didn't convey and the 2025 Bucks pick he let NOLA put conditions on, that could have better salvaged what happened, in case it did.

It's crazy that so many in here are taking all blame from and wanting to give more chances to a guy that is not only culpable for the return we didn't get on the players we traded this season but also shares the stench of all of Olshey's bungling failures. Why should we still want this guy or anyone associated with the last decade running our team?

I'm pretty sure that everyone here is aware of your opinion on Cronin. We're all entitled to our own opinions. I was just sharing mine.

And, BTW, for what little it's worth, I could dig up the posts where I expressed concern that CJ & Company were going to ride their momentum into the playoffs and you assured me that the Clippers/Timberwolves or Lakers were sure to take them out in the play-in. I don't know if Cronin had the leverage to get more protections on the NO pick, but he certainly had reason to think that the odds of it conveying were pretty high. Now he's going to have to work harder to find a trade where he can use the future Milwaukie pick and other assets to accomplish his goals.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I'm pretty sure that everyone here is aware of your opinion on Cronin. We're all entitled to our own opinions. I was just sharing mine.

And, BTW, for what little it's worth, I could dig up the posts where I expressed concern that CJ & Company were going to ride their momentum into the playoffs and you assured me that the Clippers/Timberwolves or Lakers were sure to take them out in the play-in. I don't know if Cronin had the leverage to get more protections on the NO pick, but he certainly had reason to think that the odds of it conveying were pretty high. Now he's going to have to work harder to find a trade where he can use the future Milwaukie pick and other assets to accomplish his goals.

His goals are unattainable. That’s the issue. Building around Dame, at 31, is not attainable

 

[oldmangrouch]

Sometimes, a clean break with the past is what you need. We did it with the coaching staff, and I believe we need to do it with the front office.

 

[wizenheimer]

That being said if Cronin had the kind of backbone it's going to take to manage the expectations of this ownership group he should have been able to convince them and the rest of the league that the only pressing need was to get under the tax (which as a few in here have already said should have been easy) and that if it needed to the dumping of future salary could easily wait until the off season.

no, I don't think the Vulcans, without Paul Allen around, are going to be managed in any way by a GM, especially an interim GM.

Olshey was supposed to be an adept manipulator and manager of ownership, but the Vulcans sunk him as the GM, and did so for cause. That's some hardball shit

 

[e_blazer]

His goals are unattainable. That’s the issue. Building around Dame, at 31, is not attainable

That's a reasonable opinion. I would understand completely if the Blazers and Dame decided it was in everyone's best interest to find a good trade and move along. Cronin, Billups and Dame all seem to be of the opinion that they can find the deals that they need to compete. Since none of us make the call on those decisions, all we can do is sit back and watch what happens.

 

[Idog1976]

no, I don't think the Vulcans, without Paul Allen around, are going to be managed in any way by a GM, especially an interim GM.

Olshey was supposed to be an adept manipulator and manager of ownership, but the Vulcans sunk him as the GM, and did so for cause. That's some hardball shit

Getting rid of Vulcans/Jody Allen is really more important than our current GM. I'm really, REALLY hoping someone like Phil Knight (Please god!) steps in here and buys the team. Or really any deep-pocketed Billionaire (Musk? Bezos?) who will keep the Blazers in Portland. I want a super-wealthy owner who won't be afraid to spend to win not endorsing Bezos or Musk just straight up looking at how wealthy they are and thinking wow wouldn't it be nice to be back to the good old days of SPAM. Remember when that lead to us getting within 10 minutes of a championship?

 

[e_blazer]

Getting rid of Vulcans/Jody Allen is really more important than our current GM. I'm really, REALLY hoping someone like Phil Knight (Please god!) steps in here and buys the team. Or really any deep-pocketed Billionaire (Musk? Bezos?) who will keep the Blazers in Portland. I want a super-wealthy owner who won't be afraid to spend to win not endorsing Bezos or Musk just straight up looking at how wealthy they are and thinking wow wouldn't it be nice to be back to the good old days of SPAM. Remember when that lead to us getting within 10 minutes of a championship?

Phil’s 84 years old. I don’t know how interested he’s going to be in owning the Blazers. Maybe Elon Musk has a sudden hankering to own an NBA franchise? Nah, he’d move it somewhere.

 

[wizenheimer]

Getting rid of Vulcans/Jody Allen is really more important than our current GM. I'm really, REALLY hoping someone like Phil Knight (Please god!) steps in here and buys the team. Or really any deep-pocketed Billionaire (Musk? Bezos?) who will keep the Blazers in Portland. I want a super-wealthy owner who won't be afraid to spend to win not endorsing Bezos or Musk just straight up looking at how wealthy they are and thinking wow wouldn't it be nice to be back to the good old days of SPAM. Remember when that lead to us getting within 10 minutes of a championship?

Phil Knight has said before he has no interest in owning the Blazers. he's fine semi-owning the Ducks

maybe Larry Ellison

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Phil’s 84 years old. I don’t know how interested he’s going to be in owning the Blazers. Maybe Elon Musk has a sudden hankering to own an NBA franchise? Nah, he’d move it somewhere.

Musk would fire Cronin and Billups, and put the players in charge of coaching and roster management. First self-driving franchise.

Probably switch the jersey patch from StormX to SpaceX too.

 

[blazerfan11]

Bezos would be great. The Blazers could be the first team to travel by rocket ship to their away games.