Trade Hart/Winslow/Didi/Keon/pick or CJ/Norm/Nance/Roco?

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What would you rather have?

  • CJ, Norm, Nance, Roco (bird rights)

    Votes: 24 40.0%

  • Hart, Winslow, Didi, Keon, MIL pick

    Votes: 36 60.0%
  • Total voters
    60
Phatguysrule said:
What other guards like Norm with a similar contract was dealt? Was that player dealt for long 2 way wing or PF?

If people wanted that they probably would have made trades like that, don't you think?

Norm isn't as valuable as what we needed in return. That's why we had a glut of those guys on our roster. And his contract is on the long side for his age.

You known what I heard? Exactly nobody from any other market offering things we need for Norman Powell.

If teams/markets wanted him they would have been talking about it.
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So you say he's a negative contract like it's an undisputable fact because... Joe Harris and Duncan didn't get traded? Huh?

A contract going until he's 33, when the new TV deal will raise the cap by a good portion, makes him a negative because you say so?

You think he's negative because of other fans from other forums that don't know anything? Despite the Clippers GM saying it was a really good deal?

Basically, you have nothing to fall back on, which is just like the people saying CJ was a negative contract (which Jake Fisher dispelled yesterday) and Cronin himself admitted he got back less than he should have.
 
Tince said:
I do. I don't recall the alternate trade that you said was on the table being sourced and reported, which is what I was asking you to share. I agreed with you that I would've taken the trade you brought up.
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Dude, if you think the team that traded Hart and the 8th pick for CJ and Nance wouldn't have traded Hart and the 8th pick for CJ and Nance, then I have some property on Mars to sell you.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I'm telling you they wanted to make sure they got a lotto pick if they made the playoffs. They didn't want to miss out on that opportunity and they knew Cronin's back was to the wall because nobody else wanted CJ and his contract very much.

What was Cronin going to do, not trade CJ? The Pels had ALL the leverage. Which explains why Cronin made the Clippers trade so early, to remove some of the ammunition teams like the Pels had over him and were obviously using in the CJ negotiations.

It seems to me that if Cronin held out on the Clips deal the lotto pick wouldn't have even been in play.
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What? They literally put themselves in position to get no lottery picks when they made the trade, but somehow them doing better would've made them want a lottery pick more...?

Fisher reported today that there were other teams offering more. The "Cronin had no leverage" stuff is BS that you bought from who knows where. Meanwhile other GMs are saying it was a great value deal for the Pelicans and there were multiple suitors, which Cronin confirmed HIMSELF at the trade deadline.

Yet somehow, with multiple teams wanting CJ, all of them would've said no to what they felt would be a good trade for themselves value wise just to try to screw us over? You really believe that?
 
BonesJones said:
Dude, if you think the team that traded Hart and the 8th pick for CJ and Nance wouldn't have traded Hart and the 8th pick for CJ and Nance, then I have some property on Mars to sell you.
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I thought our original trade included different players and picks? You just compared one trade with the same trade in this post. If I read your original post wrong, I apologize, dude.
 
May I suggest we let the next season come and go before a finale grade on Joe's trades. Josh Hart could end up a better player than CJ is, and CJ could end up an All Star in the East for the next 5 years?
All GM's win some and lose some. And, there isn't a fan on this site or any site that gets it all right either.
 
Hoopguru said:
May I suggest we let the next season come and go before a finale grade on Joe's trades. Josh Hart could end up a better player than CJ is, and CJ could end up an All Star in the East for the next 5 years?
All GM's win some and lose some. And, there isn't a fan on this site or any site that gets it all right either.
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Completely agree with this. When olshey made some moves to get guys like Covington he got mostly high grades. Even if Covington hadn't been traded, at the end of his contract I don't think many people would have given up even one first round pick for him.
Hindsight is definitely necessary.
 
BonesJones said:
What? They literally put themselves in position to get no lottery picks when they made the trade, but somehow them doing better would've made them want a lottery pick more...?

Fisher reported today that there were other teams offering more. The "Cronin had no leverage" stuff is BS that you bought from who knows where. Meanwhile other GMs are saying it was a great value deal for the Pelicans and there were multiple suitors, which Cronin confirmed HIMSELF at the trade deadline.

Yet somehow, with multiple teams wanting CJ, all of them would've said no to what they felt would be a good trade for themselves value wise just to try to screw us over? You really believe that?
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I'm sure there was interest for CJ. Probably in exchange for other players who don't help us and also have big contracts.

Why don't you just tell me the better deal that was on the table that Cronin turned down? If Fisher knows, don't you think Cronin knew? If you're trying to sell me that Cronin is mentally handicapped I'm not buying it.

Are you serious with this shit? Why would they give up more if they don't have to? If they are already offering more than other teams why would they offer EVEN MORE?

I get that riling people up gets you more views but...
 
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Hoopguru said:
May I suggest we let the next season come and go before a finale grade on Joe's trades. Josh Hart could end up a better player than CJ is, and CJ could end up an All Star in the East for the next 5 years?
All GM's win some and lose some. And, there isn't a fan on this site or any site that gets it all right either.
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I agree with this, except that CJ is unlikely to be an All-Star in the East since the Pelicans play in the West. ;)
 
BonesJones said:
What? They literally put themselves in position to get no lottery picks when they made the trade, but somehow them doing better would've made them want a lottery pick more...?

Fisher reported today that there were other teams offering more. The "Cronin had no leverage" stuff is BS that you bought from who knows where. Meanwhile other GMs are saying it was a great value deal for the Pelicans and there were multiple suitors, which Cronin confirmed HIMSELF at the trade deadline.

Yet somehow, with multiple teams wanting CJ, all of them would've said no to what they felt would be a good trade for themselves value wise just to try to screw us over? You really believe that?
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They wanted a lottery pick by making playoffs as a way to not penalize themselves in the trade by improved performance and making offs.
 
James lamphear said:
The trades was about fit in billups system. CJ nice offense but didn't play defense and Roco good off ball defender but not good on ball defender plus Nance took his starting position before getting hurt and he was totally lost in billups defensive scheme. Powell was over rated as a defender and Nance who knows never stay healthy to get a good read how he would fit in. Then on offense you got CJ and Powell ball stoppers and that's probably not what billups offense was really about. The players we got back majority of them are decent defenders that actually when everyone was playing this was better defensive team. Plus you seen more passing too. So what it looked like the Blazers went for players that fit a system because a team that's play well together will majority of the time will come out of head of things.
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I agree with this. I think Billups had tremendous influence on these decisions. I have said before that Cronin might have even undervalued some of our assets because of Billups' dislike for those players.
 
BonesJones said:
So you say he's a negative contract like it's an undisputable fact because... Joe Harris and Duncan didn't get traded? Huh?
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No, I actually didn't say that.
A contract going until he's 33, when the new TV deal will raise the cap by a good portion, makes him a negative because you say so?
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Didn't say that either.
You think he's negative because of other fans from other forums that don't know anything? Despite the Clippers GM saying it was a really good deal?
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Also, not what I said.
Basically, you have nothing to fall back on, which is just like the people saying CJ was a negative contract (which Jake Fisher dispelled yesterday) and Cronin himself admitted he got back less than he should have.
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I have the fact that CJ was traded in the deal he was... which is better evidence than I've seen from you.

Just show us the better value that was available. You disagree? Just show us what was actually being offered so we can all get on the same page.

Or do you have anything to fall back on?
 
Hoopguru said:
May I suggest we let the next season come and go before a finale grade on Joe's trades. Josh Hart could end up a better player than CJ is, and CJ could end up an All Star in the East for the next 5 years?
All GM's win some and lose some. And, there isn't a fan on this site or any site that gets it all right either.
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The problem is that he isn't a GM, he's an acting GM that is a candidate for the job so someone or some people need to evaluate the trades now and if they think that Joe lost some in this case he shouldn't be a candidate for the position anymore should he? Yeah, GMs who earned a contract that shows commitment to them based on what they've done to that point do make bad deals and not get fired but no one is talking about firing a GM, they're talking about not hiring one. I don't hear many of you extolling the virtues of Joe's deals like he undoubtedly knocked it out of the park, I think you guys are mostly saying that he just didn't fuck it up as bad as I think he did. Correct me if I'm wrong.

For me, someone in an interim role would need to have unquestionably had success during his interim period to warrant being promoted to full time GM. Also for me I wouldn't hamstring the organization by leaving someone as interim through both a trade deadline and the subsequent off season. That just seems like you'd be giving your team a tenuous situation that other GMs who are mostly sharks would smell like blood in the water.
 
Phatguysrule said:
No, I actually didn't say that.

Didn't say that either.

Also, not what I said.

I have the fact that CJ was traded in the deal he was... which is better evidence than I've seen from you.

Just show us the better value that was available. You disagree? Just show us what was actually being offered so we can all get on the same page.

Or do you have anything to fall back on?
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you really need to stop saying things you didn't say
 
blazerkor said:
The problem is that he isn't a GM, he's an acting GM that is a candidate for the job so someone or some people need to evaluate the trades now and if they think that Joe lost some in this case he shouldn't be a candidate for the position anymore should he? Yeah, GMs who earned a contract that shows commitment to them based on what they've done to that point do make bad deals and not get fired but no one is talking about firing a GM, they're talking about not hiring one. I don't hear many of you extolling the virtues of Joe's deals like he undoubtedly knocked it out of the park, I think you guys are mostly saying that he just didn't fuck it up as bad as I think he did. Correct me if I'm wrong.

For me, someone in an interim role would need to have unquestionably had success during his interim period to warrant being promoted to full time GM. Also for me I wouldn't hamstring the organization by leaving someone as interim through both a trade deadline and the subsequent off season. That just seems like you'd be giving your team a tenuous situation that other GMs who are mostly sharks would smell like blood in the water.
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I agree with that...then lets see how things shake out, you know I'm on record to wanting a new GM/Pres, but regardless who it is, Im going to sit back and see what kind of a season we have next year and how the players involved in trades did.
 
Hoopguru said:
I agree with that...then lets see how things shake out, you know I'm on record to wanting a new GM/Pres, but regardless who it is, Im going to sit back and see what kind of a season we have next year and how the players involved in trades did.
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Hey, if Joe is hired it won't be like I'll be as mad as I've been every season for like six seasons that we still had Olshey but Olshey also factors into this for me. Joe is inseparable from Olshey because he was Olshey's chief advisor for many years. When being introduced he said when asked if he was in scouting or the cap expert that he was both but that wasn't it that he'd been given the freedom to design a lot of the trades that we'd actually made and was part of the decision process in contracts offered as well. Now Joe was trying to show how qualified he was to be our de facto GM for the rest of the season but it pretty much makes it so we can't separate him from all of the shit most of us hated that happened during Olshey's tenure, especially the last five or six years while Cronin was his right hand.

So, I'll hope that he does a lot better because our team needs him to be but in no way will I be excited to support Cronin if he's hired... which better happen or not happen pretty fucking soon. These dumbasses in Seattle need to put this franchise on steady footing in order for it to make big decisions right now regarding the roster without having GMs around the league give us less than optimal value for our assets because they don't think the people they're negotiating with have a solid position to negotiate from. It's why there are rarely lame duck GMs because they get taken advantage of but this situation is far worse.
 
blazerkor said:
Hey, if Joe is hired it won't be like I'll be as mad as I've been every season for like six seasons that we still had Olshey but Olshey also factors into this for me. Joe is inseparable from Olshey because he was Olshey's chief advisor for many years. When being introduced he said when asked if he was in scouting or the cap expert that he was both but that wasn't it that he'd been given the freedom to design a lot of the trades that we'd actually made and was part of the decision process in contracts offered as well. Now Joe was trying to show how qualified he was to be our de facto GM for the rest of the season but it pretty much makes it so we can't separate him from all of the shit most of us hated that happened during Olshey's tenure, especially the last five or six years while Cronin was his right hand.

So, I'll hope that he does a lot better because our team needs him to be but in no way will I be excited to support Cronin if he's hired... which better happen or not happen pretty fucking soon. These dumbasses in Seattle need to put this franchise on steady footing in order for it to make big decisions right now regarding the roster without having GMs around the league give us less than optimal value for our assets because they don't think the people they're negotiating with have a solid position to negotiate from. It's why there are rarely lame duck GMs because they get taken advantage of but this situation is far worse.
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Yeah, Joe was Neil yes man and if the "cause" stuff hadn't happened he still be here probably. He would not have made those two trades the way they came down either.
So, Joe got the interim post because Jody/Bert & Vulcans were probably pleased with the overall.
 
This was a Great Exodus of talent from Portland. Not as severe as Roy and Oden leaving from injury, but maybe even more dispiriting. Because it was done with no real road map for a future. Because it was self inflicted.

Self-inflicted like the horrendous contracts we handed out in 2016 that hamstringed our franchise for years afterward.

Self-inflicted like the 7 years of decision to bring back CJ even when it was clear he was a terrible fit next to Dame.

Self-inflicted like the decision to trust Aldridge to re-sign instead of bailing on us without compensation.

I don't know, man. Every time I think, "This shit has broken me as a Blazers fan," and I come back for one reason or another.

I hope Simons comes through as an elite player, and Nas gives us something amazing. Because I see nothing new emanating from trade or the draft that gives me any hope for the future.

The Suns, Bucks, Griz and maybe Sixers are just more interesting teams right now to watch. They seem to do shit that's smart and interesting and fun and forward thinking. I don't even know why I should care about Portland anymore, other than Dame.

I haven't looked at this forum in 6 weeks, and I probably won't again for a while. I might be done this time. These were the trades that did it.
 
blazerfan11 said:
Completely agree with this. When olshey made some moves to get guys like Covington he got mostly high grades. Even if Covington hadn't been traded, at the end of his contract I don't think many people would have given up even one first round pick for him.
Hindsight is definitely necessary.
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Not trying to be snarky, but "hindsight" for a fan should have been "foresight" for a highly paid GM.
 
Phatguysrule said:
No, I actually didn't say that.

Didn't say that either.

Also, not what I said.

I have the fact that CJ was traded in the deal he was... which is better evidence than I've seen from you.

Just show us the better value that was available. You disagree? Just show us what was actually being offered so we can all get on the same page.

Or do you have anything to fall back on?
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I take it you don't believe the reports that CJ was allowed to pick the team he was traded to?

If the deciding factor was CJ wanting to be a Pelican, the whole "this was the best deal available because this is the deal we took" argument falls apart. :dunno:
 
oldmangrouch said:
I take it you don't believe the reports that CJ was allowed to pick the team he was traded to?

If the deciding factor was CJ wanting to be a Pelican, the whole "this was the best deal available because this is the deal we took" argument falls apart. :dunno:
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I don't recall anybody saying he got to pick the team. Rather, they considered his desired situation in the decision making process.

I'm not even convinced it was the best deal, and haven't said that it was. Rather it's similar to what I expected we'd get. Though I obviously hoped for more (Simmons being the best case scenario).

But if the difference was marginal I wouldn't be too upset about them putting CJ in a good situation.

I've seen no evidence there was a much better offer out there. As such, I'm not about to be upset about it.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
I don't recall anybody saying he got to pick the team. Rather, they considered his desired situation in the decision making process.

I'm not even convinced it was the best deal, and haven't said that it was. Rather it's similar to what I expected we'd get. Though I obviously hoped for more (Simmons being the best case scenario).

But if the difference was marginal I wouldn't be too upset about them putting CJ in a good situation.

I've seen no evidence there was a much better offer out there. As such, I'm not about to be upset about it.
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New Orleans is the 2nd smallest NBA TV market behind Memphis, though Memphis has more population.
Maybe CJ is a small-market kind of guy, but it doesn't seem like a preferred destination in general.
https://hoop-social.com/nba-team-market-size-rankings/
 
SlyPokerCat said:
It was preferred because he looked at the team and who was on it and how he fit. Not the market size.
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Did he fit better there than the other options? Maybe that's why they were able to offer more? Maybe they were more interested in winning?
 
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