Haynes full of shit (no Nic 4 years, 46.5 Million) (confirmed)

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BLAZINGGIANTS said:
I got it (which is why I spelled it out again for everyone).

I don't get why anyone is balking at this. Is this the best deal in the world? Hell no. I wish Batum signed for minimum. But this contract does not concern me in the least - I'd be concerned if we let him walk.
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Assuming he is content playing in Portland, it's a great thing
 
We hire D'Antoni, this contract will look like a bargain!
 
Mediocre Man said:
Even on the new meds, it has taken everything I have not to explode on the forum and wonder why no one can get this? LOL
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Because the rules have literally changed. If teams don't adapt to the new rules, then they are painting themselves into a corner.

Salary inflation and distribution are going to change in the new CBA, and it's just a question of whether teams can manage their own salary cap situations or be screwed in a couple of years.

Batum will almost certainly be significantly overpaid within a few years of his contract, and his deal will almost certainly impair the team's ability to make moves to become more competitive.

Letting him walk is worse, IMO, but this contract is simply too high to be comfortable with IMO.

Ed O.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Even on the new meds, it has taken everything I have not to explode on the forum and wonder why no one can get this? LOL
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I'm not on meds (maybe I should be?), but FUCK THESE IDIOTS! Damn that felt good! You laid it out well amigo, some just cannot fathom it out. At worst we overpay my a few mil per yr, so what? all our other contracts are very good value, and we keep a talent we cannot replace or really afford to give up. We can easily have 10 mil or more in capspace next yr, and if Ewill or Barton surpass Wes he's easily tradeable for an expiring.
 
Ed O said:
Because the rules have literally changed. If teams don't adapt to the new rules, then they are painting themselves into a corner.

Salary inflation and distribution are going to change in the new CBA, and it's just a question of whether teams can manage their own salary cap situations or be screwed in a couple of years.

Batum will almost certainly be significantly overpaid within a few years of his contract, and his deal will almost certainly impair the team's ability to make moves to become more competitive.

Letting him walk is worse, IMO, but this contract is simply too high to be comfortable with IMO.

Ed O.
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But it just isn't at all according to my math (always dangerous when I start using math)

We will really have no huge salary hits against us during his contract, so it shouldn't really affect (effect, I never know which one?) on the Blazers
 
Blazinaway said:
I'm not on meds (maybe I should be?), but FUCK THESE IDIOTS! Damn that felt good! You laid it out well amigo, some just cannot fathom it out. At worst we overpay my a few mil per yr, so what? all our other contracts are very good value, and we keep a talent we cannot replace or really afford to give up. We can easily have 10 mil or more in capspace next yr, and if Ewill or Barton surpass Wes he's easily tradeable for an expiring.
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Right?
 
Mediocre Man said:
But it just isn't at all according to my math (always dangerous when I start using math)

We will really have no huge salary hits against us during his contract, so it shouldn't really affect (effect, I never know which one?) on the Blazers
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We simply have no idea what the opportunity costs will be, though, and we know very little about what the roster will look like three years from now.

Ed O.
 
I get the market for small forwards, but I look at the list and see those guys as wildly overpaid. Just because there is a market, doesn't mean you have to participate in it. Sometimes the best thing to do is to take a step back and save money.

It's also situational. If Roy and Oden we're healthy and we were competing for a Championship, I'd be fine with spending money on Nico. However, we're going to be on the low end of mediocre at best this year. It's better to flat-out suck and hope we get lucky in the draft. We can't attract free agents, so we need to acquire players through trades. Teams are spending like drunken sailors right now; money will be tighter across the league next year.

I maintain, given what he'll give us, we're better off letting him go.
 
Mediocre Man said:
But it just isn't at all according to my math (always dangerous when I start using math)

We will really have no huge salary hits against us during his contract, so it shouldn't really affect (effect, I never know which one?) on the Blazers
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You are correct and IF we really see a readjustment in salaries the next few years that means when we have to pay guys like Lillard or Leonard assuming they pan out well, what we have to pay them will be very reasonable in context of what has been paid this yr and in the past - so IMO we are in good shape and will have flexibility to react if necessary as LMA expires in 3 yrs and Nic the yr after. The same will apply to LMA and Nic when there next contract is due. I like our position
 
Mediocre Man said:
Even on the new meds, it has taken everything I have not to explode on the forum and wonder why no one can get this? LOL
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Well, here's what I wonder no on can get:
He's not good enough to be part of a big 3. No one is afraid of Batum-Aldridge-Lillard. However, Lillard-Aldridge-Hibbert and we'd be talking. So, we need enough $ to get that 3rd piece, and Batum's contract makes that harder, i.e. it's not that the contract is bad per se, it just comes along at a bad time - before we have a big 3. To get that 3rd player we have a couple of options:
1)hope Batum grows
2)use "assets" (cap space + players, possibly Batum) to get that 3rd player
3)suck badly enough to get a top pick and hope he turns out and is in a position of need.
4)steal from from an overcapped team (eg Bulls)

I agree signing Batum is the right thing to do, but unless he grows up quickly, he just became an "asset" and his higher salary and trade kicker lowers the value of that asset - a lot, especially with the new CBA.
 
Ed O said:
We simply have no idea what the opportunity costs will be, though, and we know very little about what the roster will look like three years from now.

Ed O.
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Of course we don't, but realistically, if the draft picks pan out to even close to what is expected, one could figure

Lillard
Aldridge
Batum
Leonard
2013 lottery pick
would be the core, with all other pieces movable here and there. That's what most good teams do anyway?
 
maxiep said:
I get the market for small forwards, but I look at the list and see those guys as wildly overpaid. Just because there is a market, doesn't mean you have to participate in it. Sometimes the best thing to do is to take a step back and save money.

It's also situational. If Roy and Oden we're healthy and we were competing for a Championship, I'd be fine with spending money on Nico. However, we're going to be on the low end of mediocre at best this year. It's better to flat-out suck and hope we get lucky in the draft. We can't attract free agents, so we need to acquire players through trades. Teams are spending like drunken sailors right now; money will be tighter across the league next year.

I maintain, given what he'll give us, we're better off letting him go.
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You make a good point. I think just having Batum and Aldridge will make us mediocre. If Lillard pans out to something special, then it could be a playoff team. If E Will turns out to really blossom, then we could even propell into lower contention.

Without Batum we would most likely fall to lotto status. We would have a better shot at a better pick and grab a budding star.

Personally I hate losing, even if we live in Mediocracy. But your point is valid because with the payscale of Batum, we have no shot at grabbing a 1st or second tier player via free-agency or lopsided trades.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Well, here's what I wonder no on can get:
He's not good enough to be part of a big 3. No one is afraid of Batum-Aldridge-Lillard. However, Lillard-Aldridge-Hibbert and we'd be talking. So, we need enough $ to get that 3rd piece, and Batum's contract makes that harder, i.e. it's not that the contract is bad per se, it just comes along at a bad time - before we have a big 3. To get that 3rd player we have a couple of options:
1)hope Batum grows
2)use "assets" (cap space + players, possibly Batum) to get that 3rd player
3)suck badly enough to get a top pick and hope he turns out and is in a position of need.
4)steal from from an overcapped team (eg Bulls)

I agree signing Batum is the right thing to do, but unless he grows up quickly, he just became an "asset" and his higher salary and trade kicker lowers the value of that asset - a lot.
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THIS and Repped!
 
maxiep said:
I get the market for small forwards, but I look at the list and see those guys as wildly overpaid. Just because there is a market, doesn't mean you have to participate in it. Sometimes the best thing to do is to take a step back and save money.

It's also situational. If Roy and Oden we're healthy and we were competing for a Championship, I'd be fine with spending money on Nico. However, we're going to be on the low end of mediocre at best this year. It's better to flat-out suck and hope we get lucky in the draft. We can't attract free agents, so we need to acquire players through trades. Teams are spending like drunken sailors right now; money will be tighter across the league next year.

I maintain, given what he'll give us, we're better off letting him go.
Click to expand...

It's one of those issues that isn't clear cut to me, so it should make for some great debate for a few years.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Even on the new meds, it has taken everything I have not to explode on the forum and wonder why no one can get this? LOL
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:lol:

Totally. I feel like, even if he's not 100% committed to the Blazers, he'll be professional, will experience his growth years here, and can't help but improve between 23 and 27.

He's worth his money now, and since the NBA is a mostly closed market, you can't just choose to buy somewhere else. I mean, I suppose you could pick up a cheaper SG and run him at SF instead, but that's just asking for trouble.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Well, here's what I wonder no on can get:
He's not good enough to be part of a big 3. No one is afraid of Batum-Aldridge-Lillard. However, Lillard-Aldridge-Hibbert and we'd be talking. So, we need enough $ to get that 3rd piece, and Batum's contract makes that harder, i.e. it's not that the contract is bad per se, it just comes along at a bad time - before we have a big 3. To get that 3rd player we have a couple of options:
1)hope Batum grows
2)use "assets" (cap space + players, possibly Batum) to get that 3rd player
3)suck badly enough to get a top pick and hope he turns out and is in a position of need.
4)steal from from an overcapped team (eg Bulls)

I agree signing Batum is the right thing to do, but unless he grows up quickly, he just became an "asset" and his higher salary and trade kicker lowers the value of that asset - a lot, especially with the new CBA.
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No it doesn't because it is paid for by Paul Allen
 
maxiep said:
I get the market for small forwards, but I look at the list and see those guys as wildly overpaid. Just because there is a market, doesn't mean you have to participate in it. Sometimes the best thing to do is to take a step back and save money.

It's also situational. If Roy and Oden we're healthy and we were competing for a Championship, I'd be fine with spending money on Nico. However, we're going to be on the low end of mediocre at best this year. It's better to flat-out suck and hope we get lucky in the draft. We can't attract free agents, so we need to acquire players through trades. Teams are spending like drunken sailors right now; money will be tighter across the league next year.

I maintain, given what he'll give us, we're better off letting him go.
Click to expand...

Max, the minimim TEAM salary is 85% this yr and 90 next, so we have to pay some guys anyway. This team has to gamble, gamble that guys like Lillard and Leonard become very good if we want to really contend, that's our lot in the NBA. We gamble that Nic can improves as well, there are simly no or few other even decent choices at SF, and yes we will likely be mediocre ths yr, but "if" guts like Lillard and leonard develop we could be fairly good the following yr and eveb better the next, yes risk there is of course, IMO we should take it
 
Yeah, everything I have read from MIN writers etc, state that Derrick Williams was not offered, and under those circumstances I can undersatnd why POR told them to forget it...
 
Blazinaway said:
Max, the minimim TEAM salary is 85% this yr and 90 next, so we have to pay some guys anyway. This team has to gamble, gamble that guys like Lillard and Leonard become very good if we want to really contend, that's our lot in the NBA. We gamble that Nic can improves as well, there are simly no or few other even decent choices at SF, and yes we will likely be mediocre ths yr, but "if" guts like Lillard and leonard develop we could be fairly good the following yr and eveb better the next, yes risk there is of course, IMO we should take it
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I would be in favor of either bringing in some people on a year contract that can bring us up to the minimum salary or pay the penalty and keep the cap space.

Even if everything pans out, we're trapping ourselves in the 35-42 win group--not bad enough to get a great draft pick and not good enough to make it to the second round. It's NBA Purgatory.
 
maxiep said:
I would be in favor of either bringing in some people on a year contract that can bring us up to the minimum salary or pay the penalty and keep the cap space.

Even if everything pans out, we're trapping ourselves in the 35-42 win group--not bad enough to get a great draft pick and not good enough to make it to the second round. It's NBA Purgatory.
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Maxie, what would you do with the salary?
 
One other thing regarding the trade kicker. If Nico really didn't want to come back, he now has a financial incentive to get himself traded. Trade kickers are usually requested when you don't want to leave a team. If you don't want to be on a team, it offers a reverse incentive. Incentives matter.
 
"boo, we cant keep him on his rookie scale forever!"

thems the breaks, the blazers took advantage wildly through his rookie deal, and now that he is getting paid what he should be, people want to dump him? and what, hope to draft another nic next year?

yes, everyone wishes they could pay players/workers less than they are worth, and wouldnt that be grand
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Well, here's what I wonder no on can get:
He's not good enough to be part of a big 3. No one is afraid of Batum-Aldridge-Lillard. However, Lillard-Aldridge-Hibbert and we'd be talking. So, we need enough $ to get that 3rd piece, and Batum's contract makes that harder, i.e. it's not that the contract is bad per se, it just comes along at a bad time - before we have a big 3. To get that 3rd player we have a couple of options:
1)hope Batum grows
2)use "assets" (cap space + players, possibly Batum) to get that 3rd player
3)suck badly enough to get a top pick and hope he turns out and is in a position of need.
4)steal from from an overcapped team (eg Bulls)

I agree signing Batum is the right thing to do, but unless he grows up quickly, he just became an "asset" and his higher salary and trade kicker lowers the value of that asset - a lot, especially with the new CBA.
Click to expand...

Stars, or special/dominant players, aren't born overnight. Batum could still end up being a VERY good player in this league. I can't say he will, but I can't say he won't. Some nights, he shows how good he can be. Some nights, he doesn't. At 23, can he become more consistent AND take his game up another notch? I'd say yes, it's possible. So we're paying based on some unfulfilled potential. But it's a risk this team has to take at this jecture. And the contract isn't outlandish, compared to other SG's and SF's. And, as it is, we don't really have any big contracts coming up during those 4 years.

My comment on special players.... that doesn't just apply to Nic. We have a lot of guys with A LOT of potential. If Lillard and one or two of these other young guys pan out, we'll be just fine (especially if it's Leonard that pans out).
 
Haynes just won't let it go. Officially unfollowed.

Haynes: Updated post: Minnesota F Derrick Williams talks w/CSNNW about almost being traded to #Blazers for Nicolas Batum | csnnw.com/pages/landingb…
 
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