How's everyone feel about Smokin' Joe Cronin now?

[Natebishop3]

I think it was the part that Cronin didn't have enough respect for Dame to even talk to him at the Blazer facility is what some had an issue with.
It seems childish for Joe to do that, but I personally think there was more to it than Joe just being a dick.

I just wonder how bad things were with Goodwin because I would love to know what the grievance was about.

 

[crandc]

From a business perspective that makes sense. If personnel decisions are needed, dragging them out isn't a good idea.

 

[Propagandist]

Do you know Dame personally?

You're basing your opinion on a public persona.

We’ve made it this far without patronizing one another. I’d prefer to keep it that way.

Interestingly, the persona argument is what I argued with @blazerkor about. I apologize @blazerkor. But as to me falling for the persona: I mean, yes and no. Yes, Dame has a crafted persona. Of course, he's essentially a celebrity. But the consistency has been there. I doubted it for a bit there, but this just makes the most sense. Remember @SlyPokerDog said this in the beginning of everything and @BonesJones has been ringing this bell too. You can make fun of people saying they have sources, but their account besides Haynes is pretty damning. Unless, they are part of the bias media too?

Interestingly, a friend of mine was at a recent charity event. In attendance was none other than Damian Lillard and Joe Cronin. He remarked that Joe wouldn't even make eye contact with Dame and essentially behaved as if magnetically repelled. This is proof of nothing, but also nestles into this perspective.

But listen, if a decade of Dame, Dame's own words in the Haynes story, the insider info preceding this article, and so forth doesn't convince you or whoever, it sort of seems like one of those things that people are just not going to see the same. So it goes, I suppose.

 

[RonBrewer]

Why can’t Joes feelings also be hurt at the initial demand?

I love Dame but why is Joe the Dick and not allowed to be floored with the “Miami only” demand.

 

[wizenheimer]

I think it was the part that Cronin didn't have enough respect for Dame to even talk to him at the Blazer facility is what some had an issue with.
It seems childish for Joe to do that, but I personally think there was more to it than Joe just being a dick.

could be

but it also could be accurate in that Cronin may be a person who decides there's nothing further to say, so doesn't. He certainly decided sometime in July he had no reason to talk to Pat Riley any more...and reportedly didn't (thankfully). And he decided there was not one damn reason to talk to Dame's scumbag agent, and didn't until the NBA front office intervened

Dame showing up at the practice facility was after the meeting on the 5th and my hunch is that meeting ended on bad terms, but it was the kind of terms that wouldn't have been changed by idle chatter. It was two guys pissed of at each other and pissed off about the situation. One guy was working on his game and the other was working on trading the guy working on his game. "nice weather, isn't it" was probably pointless

 

[Ripcity4life77]

I think Cronin should be fired for how he handled Dame NOT that he traded him but how he handled this whole situation with Dame and how he lied to Dame and even to the fans. It blows my mind that a good majority of you believe the line of BS coming from Cronin like it was said by god himself or something. You do realize he learned under NeO who most believe was a scumbag who was a fake as a 3 dollar bill and could not be trusted as far as you could throw him. However Cronin on the other hand comes off the exact opposite like he is someone that could live next to ya and you might invite over for a BBQ or a beer or something when in reality he is an even bigger scumbag then NeO . I was not a fan of NeO but damn he never would have treated Dame like he was just a cockroach he wanted to remove just cause Dame wanted to win and get in the way of his master rebuild plan.

When this team was a complete joke ( jailblazers ) most of the fans would not believe the line of BS Vulcan and the front office would spew cause things were going bad. However cause things look decent in the coming years ( Scoot and Sharpe ) most of you do not care HOW he treated Dame the greatest player in team's history and told him to screw off and your not wanted anymore. It pisses me off that he has divided this fan base to the point where I know I dislike most of you who side with Joe and truth is I has lost respect for the fans who believe this crap. I do hope one day that you will see the light but until that day I will not be around as much cause I cannot stand reading this crap anymore. I used to enjoy coming to this forum and reading opinions and debating fans but now it's just 80 to 90 percent Cronin kiss asses. Also TB you and me have had a semi long history starting on the O-Live forums when we would butt heads then we got to a decent place but now seeing you sell out kind of makes me sad and I really thought you were smarter then this but I guess even smart people fall for shit -- I wish you the best and hope you see the truth and get away from Nate he is a bad influence on ya. -- LOL

This is to the fans who still believe in Dame and know the truth -- I wish you the best and Go Blazers and Joe -- got 2 middle fingers for ya and hope you get what you deserve -- Ripcity4life -- OUT

 

[BIG Q]

I think it was the part that Cronin didn't have enough respect for Dame to even talk to him at the Blazer facility is what some had an issue with.
It seems childish for Joe to do that, but I personally think there was more to it than Joe just being a dick.

It probably did get personal for Joe to some point because Riley and Miami shills were constantly attacking Joe. He said nothing. Lillard did the one team demand, he talked down Portlands leverage in trading the third pick. I'm sure there is more i've omitted. My hope is that Joe was so busy burning up the phones that he had no idea Lillard was even in the building. So i would say Lillard and his acolytes were gunning for Cronin at such a frentic pace, trying to put him out of a job for the most part, it was probably best Joe stay away from Dame and only talk to Dames representation. Just a thought.

 

[B-Roy]

Why can’t Joes feelings also be hurt at the initial demand?

I love Dame but why is Joe the Dick and not allowed to be floored with the “Miami only” demand.

Maybe because they kept telling Dame (and us) over and over that they were committed to building around him, but their actions didn't indicate that. Dame had his feelings hurt first when he lost trust in the organization.

 

[Propagandist]

You mean the guy who went from "I'm loyal, don't care if I don't win, I want the grind. I'm content staying in Portland, helping these guys grow...Those guys are bums who demand trades to already established teams, I'll never do that" to "trade me to the team who went to the finals"?

that guy?

Yes, I mean that guy.

I mean the guy that [insert all of the hundreds of accolades Dame deserves, all the feats of strength and surreal moments], who did grind with shitty rosters that actually got shittier and shittier. That guy.

The guy that was told one thing and shown another. Repeatedly. What was he supposed to do? Joe Cronin started a rebuild while saying he would build a contender (whether or not that was realistic isn't the point). Again what was Dame supposed to do? Not ask to play with his friends? Or at the age of 33 go to another lottery team? Or was he just supposed to ignore the veritable lies and keep quiet? Just consider what a weird position Dame was in. I'm tired of the word gaslight but that's what Joe did.

 

[RonBrewer]

Maybe because they kept telling Dame (and us) over and over that they were committed to building around him, but their actions didn't indicate that. Dame had his feelings hurt first when he lost trust in the organization.

If trust is that broken, you don’t “Rescind”

 

[Pinwheel1]

could be

but it also could be accurate in that Cronin may be a person who decides there's nothing further to say, so doesn't. He certainly decided sometime in July he had no reason to talk to Pat Riley any more...and reportedly didn't (thankfully). And he decided there was not one damn reason to talk to Dame's scumbag agent, and didn't until the NBA front office intervened

Dame showing up at the practice facility was after the meeting on the 5th and my hunch is that meeting ended on bad terms, but it was the kind of terms that wouldn't have been changed by idle chatter. It was two guys pissed of at each other and pissed off about the situation. One guy was working on his game and the other was working on trading the guy working on his game. "nice weather, isn't it" was probably pointless

I agree with you. That and maybe Joe probably had something in the works that he did not want to discuss with Dame and did not want to have to lie to him if asked...so he just avoided him. But these are examples of "the other side of the story"....that Haynes did not want to mention....he just tried to make Joe look bad by the way he wrote it.

 

[maxiep]

The entire "rebuild around Dame under Cronin" idea was a Quixotic fallacy. We weren't stripped of assets with the s***ty deals made by Joe, we were stripped of assets when Neil used what few assets we had to trade for Powell and Covington. In fact, one could argue that we never got over losing LaMarshmallow for nothing. Or taking two draft picks to take Zach Collins. Jody was never going to spend like her brother. In the end, Dame couldn't convince a star to take less to play here.

Plenty of blame to go around; it doesn't all fall on Cronin. When you're a market like Portland, you have to have an error-free front office. You can't miss on big swings. We have been Joey Gallo.

 

[blazerkor]

I think Cronin should be fired for how he handled Dame NOT that he traded him but how he handled this whole situation with Dame and how he lied to Dame and even to the fans. It blows my mind that a good majority of you believe the line of BS coming from Cronin like it was said by god himself or something. You do realize he learned under NeO who most believe was a scumbag who was a fake as a 3 dollar bill and could not be trusted as far as you could throw him. However Cronin on the other hand comes off the exact opposite like he is someone that could live next to ya and you might invite over for a BBQ or a beer or something when in reality he is an even bigger scumbag then NeO . I was not a fan of NeO but damn he never would have treated Dame like he was just a cockroach he wanted to remove just cause Dame wanted to win and get in the way of his master rebuild plan.

When this team was a complete joke ( jailblazers ) most of the fans would not believe the line of BS Vulcan and the front office would spew cause things were going bad. However cause things look decent in the coming years ( Scoot and Sharpe ) most of you do not care HOW he treated Dame the greatest player in team's history and told him to screw off and your not wanted anymore. It pisses me off that he has divided this fan base to the point where I know I dislike most of you who side with Joe and truth is I has lost respect for the fans who believe this crap. I do hope one day that you will see the light but until that day I will not be around as much cause I cannot stand reading this crap anymore. I used to enjoy coming to this forum and reading opinions and debating fans but now it's just 80 to 90 percent Cronin kiss asses. Also TB you and me have had a semi long history starting on the O-Live forums when we would butt heads then we got to a decent place but now seeing you sell out kind of makes me sad and I really thought you were smarter then this but I guess even smart people fall for shit -- I wish you the best and hope you see the truth and get away from Nate he is a bad influence on ya. -- LOL

This is to the fans who still believe in Dame and know the truth -- I wish you the best and Go Blazers and Joe -- got 2 middle fingers for ya and hope you get what you deserve -- Ripcity4life -- OUT

I've said this and maybe it was to you but I seriously doubt that Joe was going rogue on this one. I would be almost positive that Kolde and other Vulcans were the driving force behind the decision not to bring Dame back for this season. To be honest that decision was probably made either when Scoot dropped to us or when we landed pick 3. I also think a logical explanation for Joe avoiding Dame is that he didn't like being the guy doing the dirty work for Vulcan at all and didn't feel good about what was happening between him and Dame. That's all conjecture though.

The part about Vulcan being on board with both squeezing Dame to ask for a trade and not accepting Dame's attempt to rescind his trade demand seems like it's almost a no brainer. I think if Joe was acting on his own on that we would already see the Vulcan's distancing themselves from that decision in preparation to fire Joe after the season starts. But who knows?

 

[PCmor7]

How specious of you. There is overwhelming evidence that Joe Cronin is a petty fuck. I'm not sure that needs gradations. We all listened to him say one thing and do another for the entirety of his tenure with the Blazers. That is what it is.

Besides, you know that's not what I was referring to. I guess it was just an attempt at an awesome gotcha moment. Pretty cool stuff.

I generally find a lot of fairness and merit in your post and I'm not going to bash your opinion. The only thing I'll say that I think what you consider "overwhelming evidence" wouldn't be considered that by most people without a vested interest presented with it. It seems like a lot of your recent change of heart was based on Haynes' story, but Haynes has long ago been considered compromised. If I'm looking for an unimpeachable source in this whole situation, I might consider Haynes less credible than Keljin Blevins or Dame's mom because Haynes not only is close personally with Dame, but his own career aspirations might have been impacted by how this played out.

 

[Idog1976]

The entire "rebuild around Dame under Cronin" idea was a Quixotic fallacy. We weren't stripped of assets with the s***ty deals made by Joe, we were stripped of assets when Neil used what few assets we had to trade for Powell and Covington. In fact, one could argue that we never got over losing LaMarshmallow for nothing. Or taking two draft picks to take Zach Collins. Jody was never going to spend like her brother. In the end, Dame couldn't convince a star to take less to play here.

Plenty of blame to go around; it doesn't all fall on Cronin. When you're a market like Portland, you have to have an error-free front office. You can't miss on big swings. We have been Joey Gallo.

I don't know how anyone can look at the Olshey years, the roster that Cronin started with and the roster, draft picks/swaps and salary situation of the Blazers now, and then shit on Joe. Unreal. Cronin made ONE bad trade that increasingly looks not even horrible as RoCo fell off a damn cliff and getting rid of him when we did was genius. I also contend that was the Vulcans testing Joe for loyalty and following orders, a test he passed.

After he was given the reins he's made great decisions especially around draft picks having the best back to back draft in Portland history. Really only the LMA/Roy draft was better and it might turn out that drafting Sharpe and Scoot were the greatest two drafts in Blazers history.

When I look at our lineup, our flexibility, our assets, our cap situation, I'm actually mega impressed by what Cronin did. Especially him standing up to Riley and the intense media pressure and telling the Cryami Heat to pound that imported white sand. Cronin is the best GM we've had since Whitsett, straight up.

 

[PCmor7]

I've said this and maybe it was to you but I seriously doubt that Joe was going rogue on this one. I would be almost positive that Kolde and other Vulcans were the driving force behind the decision not to bring Dame back for this season. To be honest that decision was probably made either when Scoot dropped to us or when we landed pick 3. I also think a logical explanation for Joe avoiding Dame is that he didn't like being the guy doing the dirty work for Vulcan at all and didn't feel good about what was happening between him and Dame. That's all conjecture though.

The part about Vulcan being on board with both squeezing Dame to ask for a trade and not accepting Dame's attempt to rescind his trade demand seems like it's almost a no brainer. I think if Joe was acting on his own on that we would already see the Vulcan's distancing themselves from that decision in preparation to fire Joe after the season starts. But who knows?

Considering how beloved Dame is/was and trading him is essentially putting the team in at best a 2-3-year rebuild realistically, I can't imagine how Cronin does this without the understanding if not the blessing of Jody and the Vulcans. He'd get fired if they read all the initial blowback on Twitter if Vulcan didn't know what was going down. He's not taking that chance.

 

[Natebishop3]

Maybe because they kept telling Dame (and us) over and over that they were committed to building around him, but their actions didn't indicate that. Dame had his feelings hurt first when he lost trust in the organization.

Trading for Jerami Grant didn't indicate trying to build around Dame?

Signing GPII didn't indicate trying to build around Dame?

The cupboard was pretty damn bare because of Neil. Joe was trying to add assets, either through trades or the draft. Plenty of trusted sources have said that Joe tried to trade the pick. Nobody has been able to produce irrefutable evidence that Joe was sand bagging his efforts to put talent around Dame. But you know who did sand bag those efforts? Dame. Publicly making comments about the pick did not help the team's leverage in negotiations.

 

[Propagandist]

Why can’t Joes feelings also be hurt at the initial demand?

I love Dame but why is Joe the Dick and not allowed to be floored with the “Miami only” demand.

I think everyone is so focussed on the trade request that they act like that is the starting point.

Dame sat out the close of two seasons. He put his trust in Joe. Hell, he put his trust in Olshey. So after years of ineptitude, he gets a few years of what essentially amount to either failure or lies to reward him for his trust.

 

[Natebishop3]

I think everyone is so focussed on the trade request that they act like that is the starting point.

Dame sat out the close of two seasons. He put his trust in Joe. Hell, he put his trust in Olshey. So after years of ineptitude, he gets a few years of what essentially amount to either failure or lies to reward him for his trust.

And you know that Joe lied because?.....

 

[wizenheimer]

If trust is that broken, you don’t “Rescind”

I don't think that's necessarily true. It was probably broken with Cronin (and Kolde). But, in Dame's POV, it likely wasn't broken with the Blazers, his coaches, his teammates, the fans, the city, his home, and Damian Lillard Toyota.

 

[PCmor7]

Trading for Jerami Grant didn't indicate trying to build around Dame?

Signing GPII didn't indicate trying to build around Dame?

The cupboard was pretty damn bare because of Neil. Joe was trying to add assets, either through trades or the draft. Plenty of trusted sources have said that Joe tried to trade the pick. Nobody has been able to produce irrefutable evidence that Joe was sand bagging his efforts to put talent around Dame. But you know who did sand bag those efforts? Dame. Publicly making comments about the pick did not help the team's leverage in negotiations.

Trading and RE-SIGNING Grant. Dealing an unhappy, Toradol-ravaged GPII for tradeable assets.

People are conflating not trading every pick we had in this draft for any vet with not trying to build around Dame, conveniently leaving out a number of scenarios, actions and just general facts that contradict that view.

 

[OneSport3]

This isn't FoxNews and CNN. Give me a break. It's just Dame's narrative.

What's more likely: that the seemingly weaselly GM is actual that way or a guy who has been the same for 10 years is telling the truth?

You just said it yourself. It’s just Dame’s narrative. I think you’re confusing yourself.

 

[maxiep]

If trust is that broken, you don’t “Rescind”

He didn't rescind anything. He just said he would be happy starting the season with us while we worked out a deal. There's a difference.

 

[RonBrewer]

He didn't rescind anything. He just said he would be happy starting the season with us while we worked out a deal. There's a difference.

that’s not what the Haynes article indicates.

he said if no Miami, I’d rather stay in Portland

 

[andalusian]

I think everyone is so focussed on the trade request that they act like that is the starting point.

Dame sat out the close of two seasons.

Dame sat out the last year. The year before that he was wounded and the Blazers did the right thing to take a long term approach with him, all you have to do is see what happened to GP2 that tried to come back earlier than Dame did from the same kind of surgery.

He put his trust in Joe. Hell, he put his trust in Olshey. So after years of ineptitude, he gets a few years of what essentially amount to either failure or lies to reward him for his trust.

I read it differently. He thought that GM'ing is easy and it would take faster for Joe to turn around the shit-show of a roster he inherited or he disagreed with Joe on the value of the draft picks in the trade market vs. talent level - so, he practically did not trust Joe to do his job, exactly the opposite of what you say.

 

[Natebishop3]

CJ and Josh Hart said that Joe was a standup guy, so something doesn't add up here. But since Dame and his camp are the only ones doing the talking, some of you seem to want to believe everything you hear.

You talk about Dame's character, but Dame has been acting completely out of character for the past three months. And now there are rumors about his marriage ending. Something is going on with the dude.

 

[Natebishop3]

 

[PCmor7]

Dame sat out the close of two seasons. He put his trust in Joe. Hell, he put his trust in Olshey. So after years of ineptitude, he gets a few years of what essentially amount to either failure or lies to reward him for his trust.

You can't count this first season, though, can you? That was a legit injury that was exacerbated so Dame could play in the Olympics. He missed most of that year for a very legitimate reason, and the Blazers got one of the bright young talents in the league as a result after (reportedly) not finding anything of near equal value in trade. The jury's still out on Scoot but Dame missed 10 games when we were fighting for the play-in spot, so I'm not sure if it's fair to classify this as failure or lying but rather prudence that might have put multiple hopes at odds.

 

[Pinwheel1]

I think everyone is so focussed on the trade request that they act like that is the starting point.

Dame sat out the close of two seasons. He put his trust in Joe. Hell, he put his trust in Olshey. So after years of ineptitude, he gets a few years of what essentially amount to either failure or lies to reward him for his trust.

Correct it was either they failed him or they lied to him. I personally think they failed to surround him with the necessary
talent. So Dame moved on which I am ok with. But the leaks to the so-called media is a mistake. It never ends well for either side.

 

[Idog1976]

He didn't rescind anything. He just said he would be happy starting the season with us while we worked out a deal. There's a difference.

Right that wasn’t reconciliation, that was Dame saying, “If you can’t do what I want now, I’d like you to do what I want later.”.

Im not mad at Dame anymore, but this latest Haynes article that is clearly from Dame’s camp is not the way I wanted to see him go. I still want Dame to retire a Blazer, contingent on him building a rocket and launching Goodwin directly into the Sun. Merely firing Goodwin after the Bucks, Nets back channel negotiations is no longer sufficient.