How's everyone feel about Smokin' Joe Cronin now?

[Idog1976]

Correct it was either they failed him or they lied to him. I personally think they failed to surround him with the necessary
talent. So Dame moved on which I am ok with. But the leaks to the so-called media is a mistake. It never ends well for either side.

It was clearly failure. The only credible rumor of a good player for the #3 was Lopsided Fantasy League trader Ujiri, and if it was really Scoot plus Sharpe for OG then that's an Ultra-Giga Fuck No from me Dawg.

 

[PCmor7]

Right that wasn’t reconciliation, that was Dame saying, “If you can’t do what I want now, I’d like you to do what I want later.”.

Im not mad at Dame anymore, but this latest Haynes article that is clearly from Dame’s camp is not the way I wanted to see him go. I still want Dame to retire a Blazer, continent on him building a rocket and launching Goodwin directly into the Sun. Merely firing Goodwin after the Bucks, Nets back channel negotiations is no longer sufficient.

What do you have against the sun?

 

[maxiep]

that’s not what the Haynes article indicates.

he said if no Miami, I’d rather stay in Portland

Yes, but Haynes left out the other part of the quote "while a deal could be worked out with Miami".

Read the article. It's about as one-sided as it could be. "Miami felt", "Lillard felt", "Goodwin was trying". Nothing from Portland's view. Haynes was freaking Baghdad Bob on this one. https://bleacherreport.com/articles...een-damian-lillard-and-portland-trail-blazers

And for the record, if someone isn't returning my calls or texts and I really want to talk or make a deal with them, I find another way. Send them a formal proposal via certified mail for example. Make a public trade offer and say Portland isn't responding to us. It's not hard.

 

[Idog1976]

What do you have against the sun?

That’s a fair point. Maybe a Super Man II imprisoned in a pane of glass and shot into space.

 

[Natebishop3]

I would just like someone to provide me with some sort of proof that a reasonable trade was available that would have made Dame happy and Joe turned it down.

Torey and Eric said that Jaylen Brown wanted to come here. That's fantastic.... what did the Celtics want?

Plenty of reports that Joe offered #3 and Simons to the Nets for Bridges. He was rebuffed.

Reports that New Orleans never offered Zion and only wanted the #3 for future draft assets.

Siakam wouldn't commit to signing here so trading the third pick in the draft for him would have been malpractice.

What other trades are out there? KAT? Paul George? OG? Nobody can provide one damn bit of evidence that Joe wasn't doing his job. All we have is Dame and his feelings. Just because Dame thinks he handed Jaylen Brown to Joe on a silver platter does NOT mean that Boston was willing to play ball. What if Boston wanted Scoot/Sharpe/Simons and picks? Would you do that deal?

 

[Natebishop3]

I think we might see the Blazers side of all this leak in the next few days. Woj or someone else will report it out. At the very least I think we will get more information about the grievance that was filed.

 

[RonBrewer]

Yes, but Haynes left out the other part of the quote "while a deal could be worked out with Miami".

Read the article. It's about as one-sided as it could be. "Miami felt", "Lillard felt", "Goodwin was trying". Nothing from Portland's view. Haynes was freaking Baghdad Bob on this one. https://bleacherreport.com/articles...een-damian-lillard-and-portland-trail-blazers

And for the record, if someone isn't returning my calls or texts and I really want to talk or make a deal with them, I find another way. Send them a formal proposal via certified mail for example. Make a public trade offer and say Portland isn't responding to us. It's not hard.

It makes no sense.

If no Miami, I want to come back to Portland. But only until you can work something out with Miami.

I think some are taking two different quotes. Dame said earlier that he would report to camp. In the interview with Haynes, he said Dame wanted to rescind the trade if no Miami

 

[maxiep]

For the record, Dame calling the team out publicly to improve the roster really handicapped the franchise. How do you make a trade when the rest of the league knows your star is demanding you improve your roster immediately?

I'm not blaming Dame, I get it. I'm just saying that he didn't help matters. He could have said "I want players to come to Portland if they want to play with me because I'm never leaving" publicly and say "Get me some help or trade me to a contender" privately.

 

[Natebishop3]

For the record, Dame calling the team out publicly to improve the roster really handicapped the franchise. How do you make a trade when the rest of the league knows your star is demanding you improve your roster immediately?

I'm not blaming Dame, I get it. I'm just saying that he didn't help matters. He could have said "I want players to come to Portland if they want to play with me because I'm never leaving" publicly and say "Get me some help or trade me to a contender" privately.

I think Dame's brand took a massive hit this summer for obvious reasons and this article is about trying to shift the blame.

 

[Propagandist]

And you know that Joe lied because?.....

I don't personally. But he did not do what he said he would do, so he either lied or failed. Neither is awesome.

You mentioned Jeremi and GPII earlier. And I've always thought the same: that they are evidence of Joe trying to make it work. I think it's reasonable to think Joe had a plan that didn't work out. At all. But he kept saying the same shit: we're going to build around Dame.

All this might be better for the Blazers--probably is--but it's still fucked.

Haynes and Dame himself essential portrays Joe as childish and petty. As did the national media leading up to the trade. Everything points to this, unless we believe no outside coverage. Is "Trust no one!" the mantra? Or is the most obvious storyline the actual storyline?

 

[noknobs]

Yes, I mean that guy.

I mean the guy that [insert all of the hundreds of accolades Dame deserves, all the feats of strength and surreal moments], who did grind with shitty rosters that actually got shittier and shittier. That guy.

The guy that was told one thing and shown another. Repeatedly. What was he supposed to do? Joe Cronin started a rebuild while saying he would build a contender (whether or not that was realistic isn't the point). Again what was Dame supposed to do? Not ask to play with his friends? Or at the age of 33 go to another lottery team? Or was he just supposed to ignore the veritable lies and keep quiet? Just consider what a weird position Dame was in. I'm tired of the word gaslight but that's what Joe did.

How about act like a professional and honor the contract that he signed worth 45m-63m a year to play fucking basketball? Yes we drafted another PG because that was the best player available, and how the hell that was going to work, who knows. But maybe just let Cronin figure it out, or failing that, hang himself with the decision and get fired? What you don't do is go scorched earth and demand you get traded to only Miami. Love Dame, but he made his bed at that point, and given the last sentence of his letter yesterday I think he knows it.

I don't see either side as "evil" quite frankly. It's just unfortunate that it all happened the way it did.

 

[Propagandist]

You just said it yourself. It’s just Dame’s narrative. I think you’re confusing yourself.

Yes, because I know the meaning of words.

nar·ra·tive n. a spoken or written account of connected events; a story.

 

[Natebishop3]

Haynes and Dame himself essential portrays Joe as childish and petty. As did the national media leading up to the trade. Everything points to this, unless we believe no outside coverage. Is "Trust no one!" the mantra? Or is the most obvious storyline the actual storyline?

No. The Miami media portrayed Joe as petty. I have listened to countless podcasts from reputable people. Zach Low, Bill Simmons, Sam Vecenie, etc etc etc. Nobody is saying Joe was petty. Nobody. If anything, they're standing up for him. Only the Miami people and Dame's own shills are the ones saying the word "petty."

 

[blazerkor]

Joe doesn't have to be the villain. That being said, it's disingenuous to say that it seemed like Joe's first priority was to build a contender around Dame. I get it that the best value with the 7th pick in 2022 might have been Shae but not for a team desperate to put a contender around Dame, I get it that the best value for the 2nd pick and 23rd pick in this past draft may have been Scoot and Kris but not for a team desperate to put a contender around Dame. Every move made by Joe with the exception of Jerami has looked like a rebuild, I hear people saying GP2 but dude wasn't ever even really here and turned into picks.

None of that means that Joe is the bad guy, he was just making the prudent moves. I wonder if Joe is averse to starting confrontation because his constant insistence that he was building a contender around Dame while doing the opposite didn't make sense. From Dame's perspective it was more of the same from a guy very involved in all of the unfulfilled promises of his predecessor. I think all of the Olshey bullshit combined with Cronin saying one thing and then doing another, even if it wasn't dishonest but just situational pushed Dame to a point of being unreasonable. I just think everyone who is looking for a bad guy in this just because so many of us are very let down is looking for a place to lay blame with prejudice and while there is plenty of blame to go around I don't think any of what has been done was underhanded.

 

[PCmor7]

I would just like someone to provide me with some sort of proof that a reasonable trade was available that would have made Dame happy and Joe turned it down.

Torey and Eric said that Jaylen Brown wanted to come here. That's fantastic.... what did the Celtics want?

Plenty of reports that Joe offered #3 and Simons to the Nets for Bridges. He was rebuffed.

Reports that New Orleans never offered Zion and only wanted the #3 for future draft assets.

Siakam wouldn't commit to signing here so trading the third pick in the draft for him would have been malpractice.

What other trades are out there? KAT? Paul George? OG? Nobody can provide one damn bit of evidence that Joe wasn't doing his job. All we have is Dame and his feelings. Just because Dame thinks he handed Jaylen Brown to Joe on a silver platter does NOT mean that Boston was willing to play ball. What if Boston wanted Scoot/Sharpe/Simons and picks? Would you do that deal?

Well, and Joe Cronin might as well be the antagonist in the upcoming indy movie "The Personal War of Torey Jones."

 

[andalusian]

You mentioned Jeremi and GPII earlier. And I've always thought the same: that they are evidence of Joe trying to make it work. I think it's reasonable to think Joe had a plan that didn't work out. At all. But he kept saying the same shit: we're going to build around Dame.

So the issue is not that he did not try to do what he said he will - but that Dame and he had a difference of opinion of how fast it would be.

This does not paint Joe as someone that lied, but it does paint Dame as someone that does not understand the reality of building a team from a GM standpoint properly.

 

[maxiep]

It makes no sense.

If no Miami, I want to come back to Portland. But only until you can work something out with Miami.

I think some are taking two different quotes. Dame said earlier that he would report to camp. In the interview with Haynes, he said Dame wanted to rescind the trade if no Miami

Haynes doesn't use a quote. Of course, Dame was going to report to camp; he's under contract. The word "rescind" was Haynes', not Lillard's. Lillard said elsewhere he was willing to start the year with Portland. That's a far cry from promising to finish his contract quietly here. He wanted to move on at some point. Cronin felt it was better for the team to resolve it before the season.

If Lillard REALLY wanted to stay, he could have made a desire to stay public, and the PR nightmare faced by the Blazers would have been overwhelming and irresistible to accede to his wishes. Instead, it comes when he's on a flight to Wisconsin.

 

[Propagandist]

You can't count this first season, though, can you? That was a legit injury that was exacerbated so Dame could play in the Olympics. He missed most of that year for a very legitimate reason...

Oh true. Good point.

And I'm not hating on Shaedon or Scoot or anyone. I'll buy tickets and go to maybe 2o games this season. I just don't like the way Dame's tenure with the Blazers ended and believe Dame's account of how it happened. I think it makes the most sense, and again, fits with all the reports leading up to now.

 

[OneSport3]

Yes, because I know the meaning of words.

nar·ra·tive n. a spoken or written account of connected events; a story.

Wow. I’m just gonna end it right here.

 

[Propagandist]

No. The Miami media portrayed Joe as petty. I have listened to countless podcasts from reputable people. Zach Low, Bill Simmons, Sam Vecenie, etc etc etc. Nobody is saying Joe was petty. Nobody. If anything, they're standing up for him. Only the Miami people and Dame's own shills are the ones saying the word "petty."

It was reported repeatedly that Joe had not spoken to Miami since Summer League. He NEVER reengaged Miami--the place Dame wanted to go. That's petty.

 

[Natebishop3]

it's disingenuous to say that it seemed like Joe's first priority was to build a contender around Dame.

It can be his first priority while still being unwilling to take bad deals and waste assets. That was the Neil Olshey special. Maybe that's why Dame thanked him. Neil was willing to placate to Dame and make shitty moves to keep Dame happy. Robert Covington? Larry Nance? Neil wasted draft picks like they were nothing. Neil was great at talking. Joe is more introverted. He's a numbers guy. He's not a salesman. Neil was a con man. He was great at selling his shitty moves to Dame and to the city. But those moves were garbage. Bad trade after bad trade after bad trade.

Joe could have been doing what he thought was the best path to build around Dame without taking bad deals, but Dame is used to Neil's bullshit and thought Joe was lying or not doing his job. They have different personality types. Those personalities don't always mesh. People process things differently. My wife and I are completely different in how we process things and approach decisions.

 

[andalusian]

It was reported repeatedly that Joe had not spoken to Miami since Summer League. He NEVER reengaged Miami--the place Dame wanted to go. That's petty.

It is not when Miami made it known that they do not need to bid against themselves. At this point, why waste time on them?

 

[Tince]

Come on man…. He didn’t need to do that hit piece on the way out of town. That’s a new transgression.

A large majority of what has happened in this entire saga wasn't "needed", by any side. I've never said he needed to do it.

However, you continue to want to put the blame on the whistleblower and not the party who is responsible.

 

[Natebishop3]

It was reported repeatedly that Joe had not spoken to Miami since Summer League. He NEVER reengaged Miami--the place Dame wanted to go. That's petty.

Why should Joe have to call them!?!??!

They want Dame. They call Joe. That's how it works. If you list something on Craigslist, are you calling up people to come buy your shit???? They call or text you. If you call them you look desperate. We were already working from a deficit. Dame gave us a list with one team on it. Why the hell would Joe be calling them!?!

 

[blazerkor]

Right that wasn’t reconciliation, that was Dame saying, “If you can’t do what I want now, I’d like you to do what I want later.”.

Im not mad at Dame anymore, but this latest Haynes article that is clearly from Dame’s camp is not the way I wanted to see him go. I still want Dame to retire a Blazer, continent on him building a rocket and launching Goodwin directly into the Sun. Merely firing Goodwin after the Bucks, Nets back channel negotiations is no longer sufficient.

To me the hit piece is a lot like the Miami or nothing shit. I don't like it but Dame had been jerked around by Olshey for years and then felt Cronin was doing the same shit, then Cronin said Dame couldn't come back while waiting for things to make sense between the Blazers and Heat. In both of these cases Dame did things that I don't appreciate but I can understand. Cronin continuously saying he was intent on building a contender around Dame ASAP and then making the moves he made makes less sense to me... that doesn't make him the bad guy because he probably thought he was doing what's best for the team but I can see how that would push Dame.

Joe did the best he could do and some of the things he did along the way were kind of shitty whether intentional or not. Dame did the best he could do until he broke and then he did whatever he thought was best for him, which I get.

 

[Propagandist]

So the issue is not that he did not try to do what he said he will - but that Dame and he had a difference of opinion of how fast it would be.

This does not paint Joe as someone that lied, but it does paint Dame as someone that does not understand the reality of building a team from a GM standpoint properly.

I'm losing steam here. You Cronin loyalists are tiring me out.

Crazy that 10 plus years of goodwill buys you this.

Dame endured an incredible amount of ineptitude. Impatience seems pretty reasonable, ESPECIALLY when you have someone saying they are going to do what you want, which is what Joe kept saying.

 

[PCmor7]

Joe doesn't have to be the villain. That being said, it's disingenuous to say that it seemed like Joe's first priority was to build a contender around Dame. I get it that the best value with the 7th pick in 2022 might have been Shae but not for a team desperate to put a contender around Dame, I get it that the best value for the 2nd pick and 23rd pick in this past draft may have been Scoot and Kris but not for a team desperate to put a contender around Dame. Every move made by Joe with the exception of Jerami has looked like a rebuild, I hear people saying GP2 but dude wasn't ever even really here and turned into picks.

None of that means that Joe is the bad guy, he was just making the prudent moves. I wonder if Joe is averse to starting confrontation because his constant insistence that he was building a contender around Dame while doing the opposite didn't make sense. From Dame's perspective it was more of the same from a guy very involved in all of the unfulfilled promises of his predecessor. I think all of the Olshey bullshit combined with Cronin saying one thing and then doing another, even if it wasn't dishonest but just situational pushed Dame to a point of being unreasonable. I just think everyone who is looking for a bad guy in this just because so many of us are very let down is looking for a place to lay blame with prejudice and while there is plenty of blame to go around I don't think any of what has been done was underhanded.

I think this is where things kind of go off the rails with this POV. "Desperate." The Blazers shouldn't have been "desperate." They certainly shouldn't be "desperate" to do something in the interest of one player.

"Desperate" most often leads to extremely damaging mistakes. "Desperate" is a step beyond trading two first-round picks for Robert Covington.

If the best value for the third and 23rd picks was Anunoby and we still had to include sweeteners, that's "desperate" and also might as well just say "dumb." The Blazers have better players and give Dame a better chance to win ultimately by keeping those picks -- it just might be two years down the road when Dame might still be playing at a high level but have a couple of young burgeoning superstars running with him. If the Blazers make the "desperate" move that doesn't make them a real contender and it fails, what is there left to do? Do you think, considering what we've seen from Dame's circle during this, that he was just going to sit back while the player we just acquired to placate him leaves in free agency, "Oh, well, I appreciate you guys trying for me. I'll stay here and play out the rest of my career and you'll never hear a peep from me. I'll even squash all the rumors that are going to come out on social media that I need to be traded where I can get a ring"?

 

[noknobs]

It was reported repeatedly that Joe had not spoken to Miami since Summer League. He NEVER reengaged Miami--the place Dame wanted to go. That's petty.

Why reengage? Did their roster/assets suddenly have an overhaul? What changed? Miami could have tried upping their offer, that clearly didn't happen either. Why aren't they petty? Cronin is getting low-balled and they're trying to force his hand and you think that makes him petty? Grow up.

 

[PCmor7]

Wow. I’m just gonna end it right here.

Please don't kill yourself. It's only a post on a message board.

 

[Tince]

If Dame got what he wanted from the tanking, would he have mentioned it to anyone?

I'd appreciate an honest answer.

You're asking me what Dame would've done and obviously I can't know. If I had to guess, I would say if we traded the #3 pick for Bridges, there would be not have been another mention of the organization asking him to sit out. Again, I'm just simply guessing as I have zero knowledge as to what Dame would do.

It's important we circle back to the main point I continue to attempt to make: If the organization broke a rule, the blame goes on the organization, not Dame. I would be saying the same thing if Dame broke a rule and the organization tried to throw him under the bus on his way out; at the end of the day, Dame would have to own his actions. Putting the blame on the whistleblower and not the bad actor shows a total lack of objectivity.