How's everyone feel about Smokin' Joe Cronin now?

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Propagandist said:
So, since we aren't discussing this over a beer, I am coming off REALLY one-sided. But it's hard, there's incoming fire from all directions!

I agree the relationship was good for both parties. Very good, in fact.

And honestly, I think at the heart of this is that Dame got too big for his britches. This is just a power struggle wrapped in a drama.
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Dave Mason said it best in the 70s
 
Natebishop3 said:
Come on man.... really? Comparing this to physically harming someone?

So the Blazers tanking the final 10 games of the season harmed Dame? How so?

How many teams tanked last season? How many teams have tanked in the past 40 years? This isn't drunk driving. This is a standard practice for bad teams to throw in the towel and try to get a better asset at the end of the year. Nobody benefits from drunk driving. It's a ridiculous analogy. But winning meaningless games when your team is already bad can make a huge difference in what kind of pick you get and the future of your team. Dame is crying over spilt milk because he thought they'd use the pick to help build a winner and instead they drafted his replacement.

Did Dame complain publicly when they started tanking? No?

Did Dame stand to gain from the tanking initially? Yes?

Using your own shitty analogy, it's more like Dame was a drunk ass passenger in the car with a drunk driver. The car flipped, he got hurt, and now he blames the driver. He was COMPLICIT in breaking the rules. He didn't have to sit out. He could have played. He could have told the team to piss off.
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You're really struggling with this...I'm trying to help you realize how poor your logic is, but you appear to be so blinded by who you want to blame, that you continue to blame the whistleblower.

If your (bad) analogy is correct and Dame broke a rule, then Dame should get punished as well. See, I'm consistent with my logic: The person/entity that broke a rule is the one who should be blamed. I know that's a unimaginable concept to you! The NBA will be able to decide IF the Blazers or Dame broke a rule and if Dame or the Blazers deserve to be punished. If the outcome is that Portland broke no rules and Dame did, then I won't put the blame on the Blazers either. I'm going to guess regardless of the outcome, you'll want to blindly blame Dame.
 
maxiep said:
Exactly right. Miami overplayed its hand. If I had to guess, the Heat did really want Lillard, but they were only going to pay so much for him. Their discipline cost them a shot at Dame. I bet they make a nice offer for Jrue. Riley's a prick, but he's not stupid.
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Just spitballin' here......but Riley is, and always has been an arrogant prick. He was an original Trail Blazer (scrub level) who didn't want to play on an expansion team so he demanded a trade (if I recall correctly, it was a demand rather than a request). Portland didn't want some disgruntled scrubeenie tainting a new team so they traded him to the Lakers (one more time Portland did a malcontent a favor). Maybe Riley felt that since he had "leverage" as benchwarmer all those years ago, a stud like Dame was a lock to get what he wanted. We'll likely never know for sure. But fuck Pat Riley, his arrogant attitude and his greasy looking hair......he blew it big time and no amount of white wash from the national pundits is gonna make it look any prettier.
 
Tince said:
You're really struggling with this...I'm trying to help you realize how poor your logic is, but you appear to be so blinded by who you want to blame, that you continue to blame the whistleblower.

If your (bad) analogy is correct and Dame broke a rule, then Dame should get punished as well. See, I'm consistent with my logic: The person/entity that broke a rule is the one who should be blamed. I know that's a unimaginable concept to you! The NBA will be able to decide IF the Blazers or Dame broke a rule and if Dame or the Blazers deserve to be punished. If the outcome is that Portland broke no rules and Dame did, then I won't put the blame on the Blazers either. I'm going to guess regardless of the outcome, you'll want to blindly blame Dame.
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Well I think YOU are struggling with it, so there!

If you want to keep using the term "whistle blower" why not just apply it where it is usually used? Dame is basically the VERY highly paid employee who has benefitted from breaking the rules, but once he decided that the rule breaking no longer benefitted him, he decided to blow the whistle on his way out the door as he goes to a better situation. And it's a better situation that his current employer helped him switch to. And let's not act like this is a rule that hurts a bunch of people. It's a rule that's widely broken and has been widely broken for my entire life. It's a complete sham for anyone to feign outrage about tanking. Give me an example of a team that hasn't tanked at some point.
 
I will believe all these things about the Blazers when it is confirmed by a source that's not CLEARLY from one side or the other.
 
All I'll say is when there's two sides to a story, the truth usually falls somewhere in the middle. We've publicly heard about Dame's side and haven't heard the Blazers/Joe's side.
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
Just spitballin' here......but Riley is, and always has been an arrogant prick. He was an original Trail Blazer (scrub level) who didn't want to play on an expansion team so he demanded a trade (if I recall correctly, it was a demand rather than a request). Portland didn't want some disgruntled scrubeenie tainting a new team so they traded him to the Lakers (one more time Portland did a malcontent a favor). Maybe Riley felt that since he had "leverage" as benchwarmer all those years ago, a stud like Dame was a lock to get what he wanted. We'll likely never know for sure. But fuck Pat Riley, his arrogant attitude and his greasy looking hair......he blew it big time and no amount of white wash from the national pundits is gonna make it look any prettier.
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Thank you for noting the root reason I hate Riley. It's not that he was a F'L*aker, it's that he spurned us from the get-go. F*** that guy. I'm glad he whiffed on Dame. I pray it's Milwaukee that eliminates Miami in the playoffs and Dame goes for 50.
 
maxiep said:
Thank you for noting the root reason I hate Riley. It's not that he was a F'L*aker, it's that he spurned us from the get-go. F*** that guy. I'm glad he whiffed on Dame. I pray it's Milwaukee that eliminates Miami in the playoffs and Dame goes for 50.
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Miami making the playoffs this year? They need a pg.
 
Man... I'm listening to Bones and Hoopsjock and I'm thinking about GMs around the league.

Someone point me towards a GM who isn't an egotistical asshole. Someone point me to a GM who isn't cutthroat.

Danny Ainge?

Masai Ujiri?

Pat Riley?

Neil Olshey?

In Moneyball, Billy Bean says he doesn't have relationships with his players so it's easier to trade or cut them. If Joe learned anything, I hope he learned that you can't say shit to the media. Just be bland and vague and then nobody can throw anything in your face.
 
RonBrewer said:
that’s not what the Haynes article indicates.

he said if no Miami, I’d rather stay in Portland
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Written in the best light possible for Dame.

Sham's report indicated that he was willing to start the season as a Blazer, but still wanted to be traded to Miami.

Truth is probably in the middle there.

If I'm Portland, you are either 100% with us or you're not. Even if Portland was #2 option, that indicates Dame was not 100% with us.
 
RonBrewer said:
Why can’t Joes feelings also be hurt at the initial demand?

I love Dame but why is Joe the Dick and not allowed to be floored with the “Miami only” demand.
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Pretty good point. I wonder if he was thinking “Damn I been working my butt of the get people here to play with this guy and now he wants to do this to us?”.
 
Propagandist said:
It was reported repeatedly that Joe had not spoken to Miami since Summer League. He NEVER reengaged Miami--the place Dame wanted to go. That's petty.
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When you have a strong suspicion that Miami has been illegally tampering (ie- cheating) before all this blows up - it is not petty to refuse to do business with them.
 
In the end, it's over. Why.....must we assess blame? What does it accomplish? Does a clear target to point a finger at actually heal anything?

Really?

Here's the grief model.....

1) shock-numbness
2) yearning-searching
3) disorganization-despair
4) reorganization (apparently sports fans have replaced this one with blame)
 
Strenuus said:
Saving face from having no fucking assets. Fuck them and the fans that only bitch about the team but never support it, yet expect the world at their feet.

Love seeing them fucking fumble. They can go fuck themselves.
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I gotta blow a whistle and throw a yellow flag on this post. You don't give enough fucks!
 
Also if you're taking the Haynes article for anything balanced you should know better.

Just like with Woj and Olshey, they mean nothing but one side. So if you assume its the end all to be all and you shame the other side (Joe) for it, that's just wrong.
 
blazerkor said:
By the way, I'm still extremely excited to see what Joe gets done with Jrue so far this trade (I won't consider it complete until Jrue is moved) has been an absolute masterpiece.
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Nice part about trading Jrue is we don’t have same loyalty standing in the way of making the player happy. While we will probably trade him to a contender we can choose which team without guilt.

still can’t believe we got Jrue in trade always wanted him just a few years to late. We can literally flip him to Miami for the exact or close to same deal we were offered for Dame (worst case scenario as I think they’ll be better offers)
 
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Strenuus said:
Also if you're taking the Haynes article for anything balanced you should know better.

Just like with Woj and Olshey, they mean nothing but one side. So if you assume its the end all to be all and you shame the other side (Joe) for it, that's just wrong.
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LOL

I find common ground. Nobodies opinion is an end in the search for the truth.

So I’ll carry on and view things as I see fit
 
Natebishop3 said:
Well I think YOU are struggling with it, so there!

If you want to keep using the term "whistle blower" why not just apply it where it is usually used? Dame is basically the VERY highly paid employee who has benefitted from breaking the rules, but once he decided that the rule breaking no longer benefitted him, he decided to blow the whistle on his way out the door as he goes to a better situation. And it's a better situation that his current employer helped him switch to. And let's not act like this is a rule that hurts a bunch of people. It's a rule that's widely broken and has been widely broken for my entire life. It's a complete sham for anyone to feign outrage about tanking. Give me an example of a team that hasn't tanked at some point.
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Since you also appear to be struggling with the definition of whistleblower: "A whistleblower is a person, often an employee, who reveals information about activity within a private or public organization that is deemed illegal, immoral, illicit, unsafe or fraudulent." So if we're applying where it is usually used, Dame would be the employee who revealed information about an activity with an organization that was deemed illegal. Pretty straight forward.

Now you want to spin that the Blazers tanking, helped Dame, but the facts do not support it if is to be believed that the purpose of tanking was to trade the pick to give Dame help in Portland. That didn't happen.

I never said this rule hurt a bunch of people or that other teams haven't tanked, you want to move the debate in that direction to get off your original stance that Dame is to be blamed for the Blazers organization potentially breaking a rule. I'm not saying the Blazers broke a rule. I'm not saying the punishment should be harsh to the Blazers. If Dame also broke a league rule in deciding to sit out when he wasn't hurt, then he should be punished as well. I'm all for a fair and balanced investigation being conducted an the appropriate penalty being put against whomever was in the wrong.

You have yet to say the Blazers should be responsible if they broke a league rule, but you're ok blaming Dame. Tribalism at its best.
 
Tince said:
Since you also appear to be struggling with the definition of whistleblower: "A whistleblower is a person, often an employee, who reveals information about activity within a private or public organization that is deemed illegal, immoral, illicit, unsafe or fraudulent." So if we're applying where it is usually used, Dame would be the employee who revealed information about an activity with an organization that was deemed illegal. Pretty straight forward.

Now you want to spin that the Blazers tanking, helped Dame, but the facts do not support it if is to be believed that the purpose of tanking was to trade the pick to give Dame help in Portland. That didn't happen.

I never said this rule hurt a bunch of people or that other teams haven't tanked, you want to move the debate in that direction to get off your original stance that Dame is to be blamed for the Blazers organization potentially breaking a rule. I'm not saying the Blazers broke a rule. I'm not saying the punishment should be harsh to the Blazers. If Dame also broke a league rule in deciding to sit out when he wasn't hurt, then he should be punished as well. I'm all for a fair and balanced investigation being conducted an the appropriate penalty being put against whomever was in the wrong.

You have yet to say the Blazers should be responsible if they broke a league rule, but you're ok blaming Dame.
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Well, I mean you equated tanking to a drunk driver hitting a person.... so I'm trying to work within the constraints of your analogy.

I'm okay blaming Dame for hurting or trying to hurt our team. Yes. Whistle blowers usually are exposing a crime that hurts the greater good. You know... something like dumping chemical waste.... or defrauding society..... something like creating fake bank accounts. Usually it's someone who feels guilty and their conscience compelled them to inform the society that something is wrong. Dame is doing this to hurt the Blazers on his way out of town. He's not doing this for the greater good. Everyone and their mother knows the Blazers were tanking. He's not "blowing the whistle." The term doesn't apply. He's shining a light on something everyone already knew, and he's doing it because he's bitter and he wants to hurt the team.
 
RonBrewer said:
LOL

I find common ground. Nobodies opinion is an end in the search for the truth.

So I’ll carry on and view things as I see fit
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.... that's what I said. Just make sure you're not shaming others for a one-sided opinion and as you say, find common ground.

So thank you for agreeing with me.
 
Strenuus said:
.... that's what I said. Just make sure you're not shaming others for a one-sided opinion and as you say, find common ground.

So thank you for agreeing with me.
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You make sure you’re not shaming other people for their opinion and agreeing with both sides to a degree.

I like Dame and Joe. So im on both sides of the fence.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Well, I mean you equated tanking to a drunk driver hitting a person.... so I'm trying to work within the constraints of your analogy.

I'm okay blaming Dame for hurting or trying to hurt our team. Yes. Whistle blowers usually are exposing a crime that hurts the greater good. You know... something like dumping chemical waste.... or defrauding society..... something like creating fake bank accounts. Usually it's someone who feels guilty and their conscience compelled them to inform the society that something is wrong. Dame is doing this to hurt the Blazers on his way out of town. He's not doing this for the greater good. Everyone and their mother knows the Blazers were tanking. He's not "blowing the whistle." The term doesn't apply. He's shining a light on something everyone already knew, and he's doing it because he's bitter and he wants to hurt the team.
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If your new stance that everyone already knew the Blazers were breaking league rules by faking injures, then him restating it did not put the franchise in further jeopardy, right?

Look, we get it, you're hurt by Dame, you've wanted him out, and even after you got your wish, you want to do exactly what you're blaming Dame of doing; being bitter.
 
Tince said:
If your new stance that everyone already knew the Blazers were breaking league rules by faking injures, then him restating it did not put the franchise in further jeopardy, right?

Look, we get it, you're hurt by Dame, you've wanted him out, and even after you got your wish, you want to do exactly what you're blaming Dame of doing; being bitter.
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I just bought a Dame jersey.... literally yesterday. Try again.

I thought we should move him for several years because, firstly, it was OBVIOUS that we couldn't build a contender around him at this point. Second, I thought we should try to get some value out of him while he still has value (and we did). My feelings had nothing to do with it. I have been a huge Dame fan for years. I think what he has done and is doing this summer is classless.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I just bought a Dame jersey.... literally yesterday. Try again.

I thought we should move him for several years because, firstly, it was OBVIOUS that we couldn't build a contender around him at this point. Second, I thought we should try to get some value out of him while he still has value (and we did). My feelings had nothing to do with it. I have been a huge Dame fan for years. I think what he has done and is doing this summer is classless.
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My assumptions arevbased on what you have written on this message board. I have/had no clue about your wardrobe purchases and what that means.

Let's back this up a bit. Do you think if the organization knowingly broke a league rule, then they should take primary ownership of any penalty that is levied on them for doing so? I do, which is why I'm not going to say it's Dame's fault.

Edit: I also am not mad at Portland for tanking, I think the reward was greater than the risk!
 
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