How's everyone feel about Smokin' Joe Cronin now?

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Nobody anywhere I have read is "Not putting any of it on Joe". The one thing everyone seems to forget is Lillard went on record before the draft and said he would not be open to playing if they kept that pick. Lillard said it out loud for all to hear. Including Joe.

Agreed.

Imho, Joe is at fault, so is Dame.

But some people think it's mostly Joe, some think it's mostly Dame, some think it's equal parts.

Thing is, saying you'd "try" to trade picks (that make sense) and failing to do so doesn't mean someone lied.

Also, telling everyone (before the draft) that you don't want to go through another rebuild and strongly hint that you'd want out if they kept the pick, totally and undeniably, weakens Portlands trade ability. It makes it so other teams think they can just send crappy offers to Portland because Damian would want out otherwise.

Then you include the "I'm only going to Miami" crap that Damian pulled (or his representatives pulled...but he did absolutely nothing to counter it), and it even further undermines Portlands ability to trade him and not get absolutely hosed.

And then even after the trade, where he gets put into a MUCH better position to win a title than Miami, and he's still having people say shit? (And let's be clear, Nate Jones and Chris Haynes, are 100% saying what Damian wants to be known). And now it's still that "JoE lIeD tO dAmIaN!!!1!"??

Telling him you are willing to trade the pick for help, but the offers didn't make long term sense NOR necessarily financial sense to the team and you decide not to do it, isn't lying. It's being smart. Portland wanted to make a trade like Milwaukee did, in the sense of giving up less than you're getting. That's unlikely what was going to happen.

vs

Coming out saying you're not going to be happy if they keep the pick (even if it's the best prospect they've had a chance to draft in almost 2o years), then saying you'll only play for one team, will make a stink if not traded to that team, and then having your minions throw the team and GM under the bus (because they won't cow-tow to your request to rescind the trade right now only to give them more time to trade you to do Miami) after you've been traded?

Dame did this to himself. Joe and the team need to show loyalty to the team first especially after he (Dame) was like "just kidding, I'll now start being professional so you can keep getting shitty trade offers from Miami". He shit in the bed and then was like "I'll offer to replace the pillow cases. We good?"
 
The timeline starts before he asks out to Miami. Try to keep up. I've always said its about the way it happened. Goodwin made mistakes in the way he handled it. That has nothing to do with how Cronin handled things leading up to it. The relationship between he and Dame is sour. To put none of that on Joe is ridiculous.
Dame and his agent have been kneecapping Cronin and reducing the team's leverage the entire time Cronin has been the GM.

Cronin has sung Dame's praises. But it eventually got to be too much.

They are both at fault. That's how most breakups go.
 
Last edited:
Thing is, saying you'd "try" to trade picks (that make sense) and failing to do so doesn't mean someone lied.

Yep, It wasn't a lie. They gauged the market. This summer was the worst time to try to trade a draft pick for value. The number of teams in rebuild mode (with vet assets to offer) is the fewest in recent memory. Washington had Beal, which wouldn't help, but that was the only team that ripped it down in the offseason. Every other team thinks they can contend for the playoffs or are further along in rebuild mode without vets (Houston, Sac, Orlando).
 
Dame and his agent have been kneecapping Cronin and reducing the team's leverage the entire time Cronin has been the GM.

Cronin has sung Dame's praises. But it eventually got to be too much.

They are both at fault. That's how most breakups go.

It's kinda funny that the GM he SHOULD have thrown under the bus, the one that traded away future assets for (what turned into) garbage, drafted poorly (outside of *maybe* CJ and Simons), traded 2 picks for Roco, traded 2 picks for Collins, let LaMarcus walk for nothing, let Collins walk for nothing, signed Crabbe, ET and Meyers for *FAR* more than they were worth, passed over Kuzma for Caleb Swanigan, traded a future 1st for Nance (which hamstrung the team from trading future picks *still* for another 4 years), that GM he adores.

Why? Because that GM did any and everything Damian wanted.

He's the one who set this shit in motion, but because he said yes to Damians demands, he's in the clear.
 
It's kinda funny that the GM he SHOULD have thrown under the bus, the one that traded away future assets for (what turned into) garbage, drafted poorly (outside of *maybe* CJ and Simons), traded 2 picks for Roco, traded 2 picks for Collins, let LaMarcus walk for nothing, let Collins walk for nothing, signed Crabbe, ET and Meyers for *FAR* more than they were worth, passed over Kuzma for Caleb Swanigan, traded a future 1st for Nance (which hamstrung the team from trading future picks *still* for another 4 years), that GM he adores.

Why? Because that GM did any and everything Damian wanted.

He's the one who set this shit in motion, but because he said yes to Damians demands, he's in the clear.
Well of course. That GM employed his cousin for two years.
 
Well of course. That GM employed his cousin for two years.

The GM that gave a roster spot to someone who should never have sniffed an NBA court, let alone a basketball court, for 2 fucking years. And also didn't believe in the benefit of a g-league team.
 
It's kinda funny that the GM he SHOULD have thrown under the bus, the one that traded away future assets for (what turned into) garbage, drafted poorly (outside of *maybe* CJ and Simons), traded 2 picks for Roco, traded 2 picks for Collins, let LaMarcus walk for nothing, let Collins walk for nothing, signed Crabbe, ET and Meyers for *FAR* more than they were worth, passed over Kuzma for Caleb Swanigan, traded a future 1st for Nance (which hamstrung the team from trading future picks *still* for another 4 years), that GM he adores.

Why? Because that GM did any and everything Damian wanted.

He's the one who set this shit in motion, but because he said yes to Damians demands, he's in the clear.
Solid point...
 
Dame showed his cards when in his farewell to the Blazers he thanked Neil Olshey and not Joe Cronin. Neil signed his cousin and Tim Frazier and Dorell Wright and CJ and Joe gutted the Olshey roster in a year and a half. It needed to be done and Dame should clearly see the Blazers are acquiring more talent than he's had in the past.
 
I'm not the biggest fan of Cronin, but I think to some extent he's been hamstrung by ownership. It starts from the top down. I'm not particularly confident in his skills but he's sitting pretty with the foundation we have at the moment.
 
Nobody anywhere I have read is "Not putting any of it on Joe". The one thing everyone seems to forget is Lillard went on record before the draft and said he would not be open to playing if they kept that pick. Lillard said it out loud for all to hear. Including Joe.
and then Lillard supposedly said that he wanted to stay, contradicting that previous statement.
 
Nobody anywhere I have read is "Not putting any of it on Joe". The one thing everyone seems to forget is Lillard went on record before the draft and said he would not be open to playing if they kept that pick. Lillard said it out loud for all to hear. Including Joe.
So what? I doubt many here (let along everyone) is forgetting Dame's pre-draft pissy public demands, but those being aired is 100% on him not Joe. A GM's job is to do whats best for the franchise and Dame's public ultimatums didn't change that. It takes at least two teams to make a trade and I fail to see the magic bunny in the hat deal that would have appeased Dame which Joe let pass by.

STOMP
 
Last edited:
Yep, Dame had a chance to pull his big boy shorts up and be thankful he was traded to a contender - but he continues to throw mud. I used to be a big fan of that dude and believed he was different. Not so much anymore.

The pettiness exhibited has really soured me on Dame. You demanded a trade (to 1 team) and you get sent to now the best team in the league with a chance to win multiple titles.... and you thank Olshey?

Sorry, that comes across as very pretty and juvenile.
 
The pettiness exhibited has really soured me on Dame. You demanded a trade (to 1 team) and you get sent to now the best team in the league with a chance to win multiple titles.... and you thank Olshey?

Sorry, that comes across as very pretty and juvenile.
Neil was an amazing con man.
 
Is anyone going to post the rest of this ESPN Insider article?
Milwaukee Bucks general manager Jon Horst steered his wife and two children on the drive home from a family wedding in northern Wisconsin on Sunday, a three-hour ride amid the surround sound of a transcendent trade. Mia slept, the kids immersed themselves in tablets and a long call with Portland Trail Blazers GM Joe Cronin delivered Horst what he had been hoping to hear: A growing conviction that the Blazers' best deal for Damian Lillard belonged with the Bucks.

Horst dropped his family at home around 8 p.m. and drove directly to his office at the team's practice facility. He called a couple of his key front office deputies and asked them to meet him there. As the opening of training camp loomed, and two-time MVP Giannis Antetokounmpo's future teetered, Horst and his staff would work through the next 2½ days to close out one of the biggest trades in a Bucks history that includes the arrival and departure of Oscar Robertson and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

After Cronin hung up with Horst on Sunday night, he called the Blazers' governor, Jody Allen. For the first time since Lillard made a formal trade demand on July 1, Cronin had a sense of a breakthrough, he told her. There's a trade to do -- and it's with the Milwaukee Bucks and Phoenix Suns.

Interviews with officials with direct knowledge of the negotiations described a clandestine, chaotic final few days on the NBA offseason's biggest trade.

Soon after ending his call with Allen, Cronin opened up his Moleskine journal and jotted notes with his blue marker. For months, in this fist-sized notebook jammed with the secrets of the summer, it had been a blue marker for Lillard trade talks. Four pages for every opposing team -- weeks and weeks of trade conversation notes, deal structures and ideas. Cronin resisted posting trade offers on elaborate whiteboards with magnets and nameplates in his practice-facility office or meeting rooms; too many prying eyes could steal a glance. Everything existed inside that Moleskine and his MacBook.

ESPN +
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/in...-trade-how-bucks-blazers-suns-got-finish-line
 
Inside the Damian Lillard trade: How the Bucks, Blazers and Suns got to the finish line


Milwaukee Bucks general manager Jon Horst steered his wife and two children on the drive home from a family wedding in northern Wisconsin on Sunday, a three-hour ride amid the surround sound of a transcendent trade. Mia slept, the kids immersed themselves in tablets and a long call with Portland Trail Blazers GM Joe Cronin delivered Horst what he had been hoping to hear: A growing conviction that the Blazers' best deal for Damian Lillard belonged with the Bucks.

Horst dropped his family at home around 8 p.m. and drove directly to his office at the team's practice facility. He called a couple of his key front office deputies and asked them to meet him there. As the opening of training camp loomed, and two-time MVP Giannis Antetokounmpo's future teetered, Horst and his staff would work through the next 2½ days to close out one of the biggest trades in a Bucks history that includes the arrival and departure of Oscar Robertson and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

After Cronin hung up with Horst on Sunday night, he called the Blazers' governor, Jody Allen. For the first time since Lillard made a formal trade demand on July 1, Cronin had a sense of a breakthrough, he told her. There's a trade to do -- and it's with the Milwaukee Bucks and Phoenix Suns.
Interviews with officials with direct knowledge of the negotiations described a clandestine, chaotic final few days on the NBA offseason's biggest trade.
Soon after ending his call with Allen, Cronin opened up his Moleskine journal and jotted notes with his blue marker. For months, in this fist-sized notebook jammed with the secrets of the summer, it had been a blue marker for Lillard trade talks. Four pages for every opposing team -- weeks and weeks of trade conversation notes, deal structures and ideas. Cronin resisted posting trade offers on elaborate whiteboards with magnets and nameplates in his practice-facility office or meeting rooms; too many prying eyes could steal a glance. Everything existed inside that Moleskine and his MacBook.

One of the most delicate parts of these superstar trade sagas resides in teams' needs to protect players under discussion, sparing feelings and preventing punctured locker rooms by keeping starry names out of the public news cycle. Cronin had to contend with a player agent who wanted to squash any deal that didn't include Lillard landing with the Miami Heat, and Horst wanted to protect the sanctity of his championship core.

As much as Antetokounmpo's franchise future ruled his pursuit of Lillard, Horst kept his two-time league Most Valuable Player out of the loop in trade conversations. To Horst, the Bucks owed Antetokounmpo the peace of mind to never have to sign off on Jrue Holiday's departure.

In many instances, organizations in similar straits not only make their star players accomplices in the trade process, they also use the circumstance to package the green light on a blockbuster deal with a promise to stay on a long-term contract. For Horst, this had to be an executive decision. He had to lean on his belief that acquiring Lillard extended the Bucks' championship window and ticked up its percentages to keep Antetokounmpo.

From the earliest days of July, Horst told Cronin their periodic conversations on Lillard had to stay secret -- or the Bucks would bail. Horst didn't want Holiday to become leverage for the Blazers in trade talks on Lillard elsewhere, which precluded Portland's ability to shop the possibility of Holiday's availability to those teams where he fit. Acquiring and keeping a 33-year-old Holiday, who has a year left on his contract, makes no sense for the Blazers. The Blazers are reshaping the roster around the No. 3 overall pick, 19-year-old Scoot Henderson, and Holiday's value resides with teams on more immediate timelines to compete for championships and pursue postseason play.

That's why Horst told Cronin that the only way a deal could happen would come with Portland canvassing the league and ultimately circling back to negotiate one-on-one with Milwaukee. That started on Sunday night. The Bucks' assets to make a trade work were easily discernible -- the 2029 first-round pick, 2028 and 2030 pick swaps and, yes, the two-time All-Star guard, Holiday.

Lillard, 33, wanted a trade and delivered the Blazers a singular destination: the Miami Heat. In recent years, there have been several stars able to create the leverage to force deals to destinations of their choosing. Paul George to the Los Angeles Clippers, Anthony Davis to the Los Angeles Lakers, James Harden to the Brooklyn Nets, Kevin Durant and Bradley Beal to the Suns. In the era of player empowerment, Lillard ran into complications with a $60 million yearly salary looming at 35 and 36 years old -- and no veto power on trades in his contract. Whatever his public and private posture, Lillard's power was limited. Cronin talked to his staff about controlling the tempo of the talks, slowing the process and using July and August to explore the marketplace. He studied the trade models of Brooklyn's Sean Marks with Durant, and Philadelphia's Daryl Morey with Ben Simmons. In those acrimonious showdowns, patience had been the pathway to incrementally increasing offers.

Cronin's peers, who had been in these circumstances, privately told him what he had publicly declared: His obligation was to find the best deal for the Blazers, not for Lillard. If those conflicting elements matched up, even better for everyone.

Through it all, Cronin told himself: Eliminate the emotion, the frustration, the fatigue. And most of all, Cronin implored himself: Don't settle. Don't let yourself settle.

Big trades are like puzzles -- a jumbled slab of salary matches, collective bargaining rules, positions and ages and gamesmanship. What Cronin had going for him had been the outline of a secondary deal with the Suns for center Deandre Ayton; a side negotiation that Cronin kept connecting to his larger talks on Lillard. Before Lillard ever asked out, Portland had discussed ways to acquire Ayton, and so the Suns made a natural trade partner as a third team.

Ayton for Jusuf Nurkic -- it was a way for the Blazers to get a 25-year-old starting center, and the Suns a starter at half the salary who'd bring with him some role players.

To this end, the Suns could never know the third team in the trade. Cronin kept Suns CEO Josh Bartelstein on the line for months and weeks and days, and finally, hours on Tuesday and Wednesday. Bartelstein, general manager James Jones and owner Mat Ishbia could go days without hearing from Portland, but Cronin would always circle back and keep them abreast.

When Cronin and Horst went to sleep on Tuesday night, they were confident that they had a trade to complete on Wednesday. The Blazers and Bucks just needed to close out terms with the Suns, and they had a deal.

Here's what made that delicate, though: If the deal fell apart, Horst didn't want another team to know how far along these Blazers-Bucks talks had gotten. The Suns knew they were getting Portland's Nurkic, Nassir Little and Keon Johnson in a three-team trade, but the Suns had to get one more asset to make this deal workable. In almost all cases, Cronin would've told Bartelstein that he was getting Milwaukee guard Grayson Allen, but Horst's insistences on secrecy made this different.

Cronin did tell Bartelstein the general salary and position of the mystery player, so the Suns were able to deduce that it was one of two players -- Allen and Oklahoma City's Victor Oladipo, who is recovering from a serious leg injury. The Thunder are sometimes on the periphery of these big deals, so the Suns thought that was a possibility. Of course, the Thunder were nowhere near this trade.

Cronin kept telling Bartelstein: Just trust me. You're going to like the mystery player. Trust me.

Around 2:15 p.m. ET on Wednesday, Cronin confirmed Bartelstein's suspicions and told him that, yes, they were getting Allen in the trade. After the Suns confirmed it was Allen, Bartelstein, Jones and Ishbia briefly huddled and returned a resounding yes to Cronin. Done, Bartelstein told him. And that was that. The three teams agreed on the trade, and immediately started calling the players and agents involved to inform them of the blockbuster.

There was a spontaneous mixture of celebration and relief in the Blazers' conference room. Portland hadn't delivered the greatest player in franchise history to Miami, but they did give Lillard a co-starring role with Antetokounmpo that instantaneously made Milwaukee a championship favorite. They believed they had done right by Lillard, and had nothing for which to apologize. As the news broke, Cronin could see his phone pulsating with calls. All the Lillard teams -- and numerous more now -- had become Holiday teams.

  • Do you have another deal for him? (No)
  • Can we get involved with him? (Yes)
Suddenly, there was another trade to start on. Joe Cronin grabbed his Moleskine journal, opened up the pages and traded out the Damian Lillard blue marker to start scribbling notes in a green marker for Jrue Holiday.
 
Nobody anywhere I have read is "Not putting any of it on Joe". The one thing everyone seems to forget is Lillard went on record before the draft and said he would not be open to playing if they kept that pick. Lillard said it out loud for all to hear. Including Joe.
Yeah, Dame seems to have felt like he was pushing a rebuild given how almost every move he made lined up with a rebuild. Saying that's not for me is more Tynan understandable, it's justified. Why do we think Dame felt a need to specify that?
 
Yeah, Dame seems to have felt like he was pushing a rebuild given how almost every move he made lined up with a rebuild. Saying that's not for me is more Tynan understandable, it's justified. Why do we think Dame felt a need to specify that?

Well, if we forget the Grant move (trade) and the GP2 moves and signing Winslow and the 2nd Grant move (extension), sure, every move was a rebuild move. If we do not ignore reality, it was not.

The Blazers can feel just as much hurt about Dame as well. He had major surgery, there was no guarantee he would come back from abdominal injury immediatly. The Blazers could have just as well told him to prove that he is healthy before discussing an extension or trading him with a much shorter contract - but they were willing to take the long-term option on him and signed him to his big extension. He was not willing to take the long-term option on the rebuild where the Blazers were trying to maximize their assets.

So, what he felt and what happened are not one and the same - and the Blazers have all the reasons in the world not to trust him when he did such an obvious 180 over what he told everyone before.
 
Yeah, Dame seems to have felt like he was pushing a rebuild given how almost every move he made lined up with a rebuild. Saying that's not for me is more Tynan understandable, it's justified. Why do we think Dame felt a need to specify that?

Ah, your command of the English language is truly awe-inspiring. Your choice of words, "more Tynan understandable, it's justified," has us all pondering the depths of linguistic complexity. I couldn't help but notice your subtle reference to the renowned "Totally Yodeling Naked in Antarctica" movement. Truly, a pinnacle of intellectual discourse.

However, if I may be so bold, I'd like to offer a humble request on behalf of some of our fellow forum-goers who may not be as well-versed in your advanced lingo. You see, there are those among us who struggle to grasp the nuances of "Totally Yodeling Naked in Antarctica" or decipher intricate acronyms like "take your nonsense and nonsocial attitude."

So, in the spirit of inclusivity and to ensure that all readers can bask in the brilliance of your words, could you kindly consider simplifying your language just a tad? We wouldn't want anyone to feel left out in this intellectual wonderland you've created. After all, you are the master orator, thanks to your highly successful podcast, and we're just here to catch up.

Your understanding of this matter, as I'm sure you'll agree, is "more Tynan understandable, it's justified."
 
Dame and his agent have been kneecapping Cronin and reducing the team's leverage the entire time Cronin has been the GM.

Cronin has sung Dame's praises. But it eventually got to be too much.

They are both at fault. That's how most breakups go.
Because he put pressure on him? Why does that work for other stars and GMs? Stars put pressure all the time. Giannis just did.
 
Because he put pressure on him? Why does that work for other stars and GMs? Stars put pressure all the time. Giannis just did.

Well, you can't do it and claim loyalty first, unless it is loyalty to himself. There is a good reason the Blazers stopped trusting Dame, he gave them a lot of reasons to do so.
 
Because he put pressure on him? Why does that work for other stars and GMs? Stars put pressure all the time. Giannis just did.

Call me an ignoramus, but I think the main reason people have soured on Dame is that his agent (at his behest) acted like a petulant asshole all summer. I'm not aware of any starts that have demanded a trade to one team with $200M in future salary owed, hit the podcast circuit and released shitty emo rap to air their greviences, then try to do a short-term take back. After all this, mind you, release a hit piece after getting traded to a team that immediately becomes a title favorite. If Dame quietly (or loudly) demanded a trade to a contender and his agent didn't throw a summer long tempter tantrum I think almost everyone would be cool with him.
 
Because he put pressure on him? Why does that work for other stars and GMs? Stars put pressure all the time. Giannis just did.

I was one of the guys who was BEGGING for Dame to put pressure on Neil for years. Putting pressure is fine.

Coming out and essentially telling the media that if we don't trade the pick, he's out..... that's not pressure. That's an ultimatum.

Honestly, putting everything aside that you and Eric have reported, do you think Dame making that statement hurt the Blazers' trade leverage?
 
Holy shit this conversation is so fucking tired. Dame did what he felt was right for him after this team's front office didn't do what they said they sat out to do many many times between Olshey and Joe. When Dame said don't go young or else and Joe called his bluff I think that put Dame in a bad mindset (obviously compounded by personal stuff). Dame obviously felt betrayed by Joe. Joe obviously wasn't going to give into Dame's demands because they were stupid. Dame got to a good team, better team than the one he wanted but is still pissed at Joe.

I think Dame has every right to be angry at Joe mostly for not getting the job done that Joe had been telling Dame he'd get done for a year and a half, that would have kept Dame where he wanted to be and that's here.

I think Joe made the best moves for the franchise and when weighing out what to do didn't put too much weight in Dame's legacy with the franchise which is shrewd but you kind of want someone who is shrewd making these decisions.

Both guys actions are completely understandable to me. Most important Joe seems to be kicking ass with this trade and it's going to set us up for a very very bright future.

I'll root for Dame to win a title in Milwaukee but above all else GO BLAZERS!!!
 
Holy shit this conversation is so fucking tired. Dame did what he felt was right for him after this team's front office didn't do what they said they sat out to do many many times between Olshey and Joe. When Dame said don't go young or else and Joe called his bluff I think that put Dame in a bad mindset (obviously compounded by personal stuff). Dame obviously felt betrayed by Joe. Joe obviously wasn't going to give into Dame's demands because they were stupid. Dame got to a good team, better team than the one he wanted but is still pissed at Joe.

I think Dame has every right to be angry at Joe mostly for not getting the job done that Joe had been telling Dame he'd get done for a year and a half, that would have kept Dame where he wanted to be and that's here.

I think Joe made the best moves for the franchise and when weighing out what to do didn't put too much weight in Dame's legacy with the franchise which is shrewd but you kind of want someone who is shrewd making these decisions.

Both guys actions are completely understandable to me. Most important Joe seems to be kicking ass with this trade and it's going to set us up for a very very bright future.

I'll root for Dame to win a title in Milwaukee but above all else GO BLAZERS!!!

That's all fair.

The main point of contention is going young. The Blazers got the third pick, which was a twist of fate. Whether you believe the reports that the Blazers actually did try to trade the pick, or if you fall into the group who do not believe that Joe really gave it his all, the mere fact that we got the third pick is what drastically changed things. Joe was presented with an impossible decision.

Trade Scoot for bad value.

or

Piss off Dame.

And with that decision, I'm sure Joe had to sit down and think about the future of the team. Dame is 33. Our team is not good. We're being handed a stud point guard on a silver platter. So if you're presented with an option of either taking bad value on a 19 year old stud point guard who might end up being really special OR taking not great value on a Damian Lillard trade, which one do you choose? I can't imagine that was a fun decision.
 
Back
Top