If CJ were to be traded, who are we most likely to get?

[Natebishop3]

In 5...4...3...

 

[B-Roy]

I get that people are frustrated with CJ, and he didn't have a great playoff series, but the dude averaged 23ppg, 5 assists, and 4 rebounds on 46% from the field and 40% from three. Those are NOT bad numbers. Those are arguably All-Star numbers. He's not even old. He just doesn't fit with this team. The guy has value.

27/5/4 on 47/44 shooting splits before all star break. 22/5/4 on 45/38 shooting splits after.

The latter looks more like the player he's been his entire career, making the first half look like an extended hot streak. If you look at the numbers for the entire season it can look a bit deceiving. Oh, and there's what happened in the playoffs. If he played more like the player before the all-star break I think we may not be having this conversation at the moment.

 

[tester551]

I would 100% trade CJ for Simmons... but I want to keep RoCo. Those two can be interchangeable at forward.

Dame
Powell
RoCo
Simmons
Nurk

I'm not against trading Nurk, but I really want to see what he can do in a new system. With that said, I really wish he could shoot the three.

That would be a good defensive team - but I think we'd need more offense. If we could swap Nurk for Wood - that could be something special.

 

[TBpup]

TBH, I think Siakam is the best fit out of all the names being thrown around. Simmons has the highest ceiling however. Middleton is more of a 2 than a 3 but he's a great fit as well despite his size.

None of those players is quite the scorer CJ is, and he may be even better depending on which team he goes to if he is the lead guard.

Any one of those players added to the Blazer and a re-signed Powell I thoroughly believe will balance out the roster much better and help make the Blazers a better team.

 

[wizenheimer]

Eh......... I don't think his value is THAT bad.

CJ is just better than him.

View attachment 39131

Like.... it's not even close.

View attachment 39132

Kemba was also HORRIBLe in the playoffs.

View attachment 39133

I'd be surprised if GM's gauged veteran players by a single abbreviated season in a time of Covid

their career numbers look a lot different:



Kemba is about 16 months older, which isn't a lot. He's also a lot more of a PG, so if that's what a team is looking for, they'd place some value on that

obviously, that's not what OKC was looking for, and Boston was focused on clearing cap. So I'd say the Kemba trade is a bad gauge for how teams might value CJ, and especially for what Portland might get in return if they were to actually shop CJ in a serious manner

we're also kind of ignoring that Al Horford is still a serviceable big man. It's not like he has major negative value

 

[Natebishop3]

I'd be surprised if GM's gauged veteran players by a single abbreviated season in a time of Covid

their career numbers look a lot different:

View attachment 39136

Kemba is about 16 months older, which isn't a lot. He's also a lot more of a PG, so if that's what a team is looking for, they'd place some value on that

obviously, that's not what OKC was looking for, and Boston was focused on clearing cap. So I'd say the Kemba trade is a bad gauge for how teams might value CJ, and especially for what Portland might get in return if they were to actually shop CJ in a serious manner

we're also kind of ignoring that Al Horford is still a serviceable big man. It's not like he has major negative value

Kemba is a dude who clearly needs to be the numero uno on a team. He kinda reminds me of Damon Stoudamire in that regard.

CJ has proven he can be effective as a second option or a first option.

 

[Ed O]

I get that people are frustrated with CJ, and he didn't have a great playoff series, but the dude averaged 23ppg, 5 assists, and 4 rebounds on 46% from the field and 40% from three. Those are NOT bad numbers. Those are arguably All-Star numbers. He's not even old. He just doesn't fit with this team. The guy has value.

The thing is... he's paid at that level. He's adding no worth above and beyond what he's paid.

Compared to elite players who get paid that, he's overpaid. And compared to players who are cheaper but almost as good as he is, he's overpaid.

Nobody's going to win anything with players that are paid what they're worth. Teams need more than that... and that's why I just don't think CJ has much trade value, given his contract.

 

[Natebishop3]

The thing is... he's paid at that level. He's adding no worth above and beyond what he's paid.

Compared to elite players who get paid that, he's overpaid. And compared to players who are cheaper but almost as good as he is, he's overpaid.

Nobody's going to win anything with players that are paid what they're worth. Teams need more than that... and that's why I just don't think CJ has much trade value, given his contract.

Simmons contract is arguably worse. Right now he's a guy you can't even have on the floor at the end of games because of how bad his free throw shooting is. How can you pay $30+ million for a dude who you can't play? So to me, you have two guys who are on bad contracts who need a change of scenery.

 

[wizenheimer]

Kemba is a dude who clearly needs to be the numero uno on a team. He kinda reminds me of Damon Stoudamire in that regard.

CJ has proven he can be effective as a second option or a first option.

well, in the last 5 seasons, Kemba has averaged about 17.6 FGA while CJ has averaged 18.5. And if you try and normalize CJ's first 2 low-usage seasons, with the rest of his career, his usage rate is about the same as Walker's. So, either CJ was a high-usage 2nd option or Kemba was a low-usage 1st option

if you go back to his Charlotte days, he did lead the team in FGA several times, but looking at their rotations, I'd say that was because of bad offensive rosters rather than Kemba asserting his ball dominance. When Charlotte added Al Jefferson, Kemba deferred his FGA's and usage rate quite a bit

 

[Natebishop3]

well, in the last 5 seasons, Kemba has averaged about 17.6 FGA while CJ has averaged 18.5. And if you try and normalize CJ's first 2 low-usage seasons, with the rest of his career, his usage rate is about the same as Walker's. So, either CJ was a high-usage 2nd option or Kemba was a low-usage 1st option

if you go back to his Charlotte days, he did lead the team in FGA several times, but looking at their rotations, I'd say that was because of bad offensive rosters rather than Kemba asserting his ball dominance. When Charlotte added Al Jefferson, Kemba deferred his FGA's and usage rate quite a bit

The problem is that the NBA doesn't look at your body of work. If you're currently playing like ass, that's what people remember. Kemba is playing like ass. His playoffs were abysmal. Thus his value was ass.

 

[wizenheimer]

The problem is that the NBA doesn't look at your body of work. If you're currently playing like ass, that's what people remember. Kemba is playing like ass. His playoffs were abysmal. Thus his value was ass.

I think you may be confusing fans with the NBA front offices. I don't think GM's and scouts will gauge Walker completely by his last 3 playoff games while playing on an injured knee

besides that, if a player gets demerits for a poor playoffs, CJ is getting some red marks on his report card, and unlike Walker, CJ was healthy

 

[illmatic99]

I think you may be confusing fans with the NBA front offices. I don't think GM's and scouts will gauge Walker completely by his last 3 playoff games while playing on an injured knee

he was just traded for al freaking horford and the celtics had to send a pick out for OKC to take him this morning.

is that not enough evidence of his true value for you?

 

[Natebishop3]

I think you may be confusing fans with the NBA front offices. I don't think GM's and scouts will gauge Walker completely by his last 3 playoff games while playing on an injured knee

besides that, if a player gets demerits for a poor playoffs, CJ is getting some red marks on his report card, and unlike Walker, CJ was healthy

Go look at their stats again. CJ didn't play up to OUR expectations, but he didn't have a bad series. Not statistically anyway. He just is a shit defender.

And if NBA front offices don't go off this season, why did the Celtics get such a crap deal for him? They had to give up a first rounder just to offload him.

 

[wizenheimer]

he was just traded for al freaking horford and the celtics had to send a pick out for OKC to take him this morning.

is that not enough evidence of his tru value for you?

not really....because Boston wanted an uneven trade to clear cap. That's what they were looking for and were hot to secure. That's sure not the first time a decent player has been traded for space and not much else

 

[illmatic99]

not really....because Boston wanted an uneven trade to clear cap. That's what they were looking for and were hot to secure. That's sure not the first time a decent player has been traded for space and not much else

What they're gonna do later on is irrelevant. We're talking about a guy's trade value here.

Last year, they also traded away Hayward for nothing and Ainge tried to sell their fans that they would use the TPE obtained as the value in the deal-- which they still have no use for. Wonder how much you would skewer Olshey if he pulled something like this.

 

[wizenheimer]

Go look at their stats again. CJ didn't play up to OUR expectations, but he didn't have a bad series. Not statistically anyway. He just is a shit defender.

that's a bad series for a 30M/year 2nd option, especially when he was matched up with 2nd string players, one of whom was signed on a 10-day contract

but fine, have it your way....the Kemba trade is a bad gauge for CJ's value. I agree with what somebody said in this thread earlier:

obviously, that's not what OKC was looking for, and Boston was focused on clearing cap. So I'd say the Kemba trade is a bad gauge for how teams might value CJ, and especially for what Portland might get in return if they were to actually shop CJ in a serious manner

isn't that what you're saying?

 

[Natebishop3]

View attachment 39138

that's a bad series for a 30M/year 2nd option, especially when he was matched up with 2nd string players, one of whom was signed on a 10-day contract

but fine, have it your way....the Kemba trade is a bad gauge for CJ's value. I agree with what somebody said in this thread earlier:



isn't that what you're saying?

Oh I see. I also think that I'm the smartest person in the room

 

[wizenheimer]

Oh I see. I also think that I'm the smartest person in the room

 

[MickZagger]

Simmons has chumped it up these playoffs.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Thybulle is the 6er to get

 

[RR7]

Simmons has chumped it up these playoffs.

And that's the only reason we'd have any shot at him without trading Dame.

 

[calvin natt]

If CJs value took a hit for his series, what the fuck is happening to Simmons value? He’s awful.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

The problem is that the NBA doesn't look at your body of work. If you're currently playing like ass, that's what people remember. Kemba is playing like ass. His playoffs were abysmal. Thus his value was ass.

As an ass man, I’m confused by your simile here.

 

[Mediocre Man]

If CJs value took a hit for his series, what the fuck is happening to Simmons value? He’s awful.

Ironically, I think Simmons would flourish under Stotts. He gives guys confidence to shoot the ball.

 

[blazerkor]

I don't know if any of the guys we would like to trade CJ for that are still playing are realistic. These teams have to feel like they are minor adjustments away from contention, not wholesale change. To me, I still think our best CJ trade would be trading him to the Knicks... getting their highest offer for him and sending it to Toronto along with future draft picks from us for Siakam. Dame, re-signed Norm, RoCo, Siakam, Nurk, Ant, Nas, MLE PG, Zach and an opted in DJ is pretty good depth.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

But, CJ probably won't bring someone like Soaking or even Simmons in return. If Walker is any indication, the Blazers will have to send out a pick with CJ just to get someone who is about to retire, a young prospect, and a future 2nd. Ugh

LMAO you're crazy if you think that's his value.

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

OH MY GOD GIVE IT UP WITH TOWNS!!!
View attachment 39126

you don’t want KAT?

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

To me, Butler is the dude. His attitude and his defense would change this team over night.

Dame
Norm
Butler
RoCo
Nurk

That's a squad.

Let Simmons go play with Bam. They are both young guys and they fit the same window.

Agree!

 

[pougie]

To me, Butler is the dude. His attitude and his defense would change this team over night.

Dame
Norm
Butler
RoCo
Nurk

That's a squad.

Let Simmons go play with Bam. They are both young guys and they fit the same window.

This all would ride on if Miami would want to do it. A part of me says there’s no way Pat Riley will think Bam and Ben will work. I’ve been watching breakdowns of game 5; Ben without the ball just stands in the dunker spot and takes up Embiid’s space. Bam is nowhere near the shooter or player that Embiid is right now, there’s no way this works. Ben won’t even attempt a 3, so they’d have to really believe Bam will become anywhere close to a 40% 3pt guy.
On the other hand, maybe Pat Riley can turn this guy into something. Would we also have to give up a 1st to even get Miami to think about it (I’d still do it though)? DJJ would also have to go to Miami to make salaries work. Simmons seems so outside of the team’s culture that I can’t realistically imagine him there.
Although Butler is going to get up there in age and it’s tough to see a Kawhi to Miami scenario right now seeing now that the Clippers are in the ECF without him. Of course if this is even a remote possibility, you do it. Having Butler as your second option in the clutch isn’t all bad. Hopefully he can make Nurk better. I’ve seen CJ push Nurk around before in games during scuffles and such, I don’t think Butler’s personality will be too much for him.
Overall, I like it. But I also don’t know why Miami would even be shopping Jimmy right now.

 

[royo]

This all would ride on if Miami would want to do it. A part of me says there’s no way Pat Riley will think Bam and Ben will work. I’ve been watching breakdowns of game 5; Ben without the ball just stands in the dunker spot and takes up Embiid’s space. Bam is nowhere near the shooter or player that Embiid is right now, there’s no way this works. Ben won’t even attempt a 3, so they’d have to really believe Bam will become anywhere close to a 40% 3pt guy.
On the other hand, maybe Pat Riley can turn this guy into something. Would we also have to give up a 1st to even get Miami to think about it (I’d still do it though)? DJJ would also have to go to Miami to make salaries work. Simmons seems so outside of the team’s culture that I can’t realistically imagine him there.
Although Butler is going to get up there in age and it’s tough to see a Kawhi to Miami scenario right now seeing now that the Clippers are in the ECF without him. Of course if this is even a remote possibility, you do it. Having Butler as your second option in the clutch isn’t all bad. Hopefully he can make Nurk better. I’ve seen CJ push Nurk around before in games during scuffles and such, I don’t think Butler’s personality will be too much for him.
Overall, I like it. But I also don’t know why Miami would even be shopping Jimmy right now.

They saying there are some tensions between Jimmy and Spo. But I think all 3 (Spo, Jimmy and Pat) are pro enough to go over it.
Don't know if it would do good for Jimmy and his value, being on Toliver's level of traveling around the league.
And I don't know if I am as high on him as I was last season. He could go into Nurk's head maybe to make him tuffer.
Miami is kind of stagnant atm and CJ could make some wind on the court.

All in all, I don't think Jimmy is game changer for Portland any more.