If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Period!!

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Re: If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Peri

I guess that did come off a bit dickish.. I recant the statement. Would it be fair to say that we are both stubborn?

That would be fair to say, however I try hard to be open minded. I accept your recanted statement and wont call you Frank anymore. I do fucking love your avatar by the way, cracks me up every time I see it, so you can't be all bad.
 
Re: If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Peri

I know it was a bullshit fix to appease republicans and deflect blame. The funniest part though is when he finally caves then he is an asshole for not following the law. I'm not a diehard Obama lover but the circle of crazy ends up making me defend Obama, to the likes of you, more than I care to. I read the exchange you mentioned also, I'm not sure why he took that position. I mean we all knew he grew up in Kenya right?

The correction you posted though seems to have more to do with the CA board of insurance's decision.

If you follow the events leading up to his so called "fix" it was not done to appease republicans. If that had been his intention he could have made nice during the Gov shut down. The series of events that lead up to the "fix" had the Dems breaking off and threatening to vote with the GOP, Oboma threatening to veto anything and him being forced to face the music (admit his falsehoods)

As far as not following the law, he was dancing on the chalk, he could do what he did because he really did nothing but repeat what was already law. If you had listened to his speech, he even says that it was already grandfathered into the law. What he did was "allow" these to be sold IF the insurance companies and the state insurance commissions so chose to..giving him an out when they did not.
 
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Re: If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Peri

The people who got cancelled are not getting their policies back.

How about those people having to pay jacked up (higher) premiums? Many get premiums so high they cannot afford it and don't qualify for support?

My understanding is the scam is to jack up the premiums of the young and healthy to cover higher costs of older people who likely access health care more frequently. Yet people I know in their 50s are tell me their premiums are being jacked up, too, after the policies they were happy with were cancelled.

Oh yeah... "that part is delayed" means FAIL! To be fair.

We will see, I don't predict as much doom and gloom as you but Im not going to make any bold predictions about how super awesome everything will. The one prediction I will make is that when it all shakes down it will be better than what we had but not as good as we need.
 
Re: If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Peri

That would be fair to say, however I try hard to be open minded. I accept your recanted statement and wont call you Frank anymore. I do fucking love your avatar by the way, cracks me up every time I see it, so you can't be all bad.

Thank you, very kind of you to do. I also attempt to look at both sides of an issue before i make up my mind. And yes I do enjoy your POV.
 
Re: If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Peri

Spoken like someone who has never run an organization.

It sucks, but when you're the boss, EVERYTHING is your responsibility. The best ones take the blame for everything and take the credit for nothing. With our current president, the opposite is true.

Amen!

Go Blazers
 
Re: If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Peri

We will see, I don't predict as much doom and gloom as you but Im not going to make any bold predictions about how super awesome everything will. The one prediction I will make is that when it all shakes down it will be better than what we had but not as good as we need.

Paint a scenario where it all shakes out better.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/11/18/the-obamacare-disaster/
 
Re: If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Peri

Here are some real ObamaCare ads trying to get young people to buy insurance.

What the fuck is this?

http://doyougotinsurance.com/

obamacare-ad-1.jpg


obamacare-ad-2.jpg
 
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Re: If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Peri

http://doyougotinsurance.com/index.php?id=11

Got Insurance is a project of the Thanks Obamacare campaign, created by the Colorado Consumer Health Initiative and ProgressNow Colorado Education to educate everyone about the benefits of the Affordable Care Act.
ThanksObamacare.org

COHealthInitiative.org

ProgressNowColorado.org

@ThanksObamacare or #ThanksObamacare or #GotInsurance

- See more at: http://doyougotinsurance.com/index.php?id=11#sthash.HFlbYGzg.dpuf
 
Re: If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Peri

The only people who might have to change policies are individuals who buy their own health insurance (not employer-sponsored). And only a minority of them (at most 1.5 million) won't find themselves with cheaper (subsidized by the new law) yet better insurance. (They'll just buy policies similar to their old ones.). Meanwhile, tens of millions of uninsured will become insured.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/11/21/209370/patient-advocacy-group-says-policy.html
 
Re: If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Peri

So in the video, he says "That's on us" twice, and "That's on me" once. Not that that is a real point, but it underscores what I'm trying to say: Obama is not in control of everything. No one person is. Blaming the president because technology fails and expecting to be taken serious is just ridiculous.

No, it's ridiculous to think that the government can run a healthcare system when they can't even get their website to work.

Private companies have websites that work...all the time. Sites and datacenters are designed to have incredible availability when needed, and it's done all the time. Go check out Amazon's hosting services to see what availability they guarantee for their infrastructure.
 
Re: If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Peri

The only people who might have to change policies are individuals who buy their own health insurance (not employer-sponsored). And only a minority of them (at most 1.5 million) won't find themselves with cheaper (subsidized by the new law) yet better insurance. (They'll just buy policies similar to their old ones.). Meanwhile, tens of millions of uninsured will become insured.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/11/21/209370/patient-advocacy-group-says-policy.html

Fuzzy math. That's the only kind that you can use to spin this disaster into something even slightly positive.
 
Re: If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Peri

Obamacare is the biggest positive American accomplishment since Lyndon Johnson's Medicare and Great Society legislation.

I know, I know, you rate wars and death higher.
 
Re: If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Peri

Quinnipiac is the most conservative national polling company. Coincidentally, it's the one you cite the most.

In a 2012 post-election rating of poll accuracy I read, they rated last.
 
Re: If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Peri

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/disapproval-of-obamacare-spikes-in-new-poll

jlprk said:
CBS News is the most conservative national polling company. Coincidentally, it's the one you cite the most.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/page/...onal-Politics/Polling/release_274.xml?hpid=z1

jlprk said:
ABC News / Washington Post is the most conservative national polling company. Coincidentally, it's the one you cite the most.
 
Re: If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Peri

Good. I was getting tired of Quinnipiac. For those wondering, he made up those quotations from me. I didn't say those.
 
Re: If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Peri

Good. I was getting tired of Quinnipiac. For those wondering, he made up those quotations from me. I didn't say those.

Sure. I just saved you from having to repeat your canned denial type response.
 
Re: If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Peri

Why don't you make my canned denial response for me?
 
Re: If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Peri

I caught an amusing story last night on NPR. The White House has decided to re brand oboma care. If you listen to the past week, every reference to this has been made under the proper term Affordable Care Act. It seems this distancing form obamacare came about when a pole was taken and found that only 30 percent approved of obama care, but that 47% thought ACA was ok. The lack of approval was in part due to a lack of trust in the president.

So how wonderful is this program when the guy who proudly claims this as his signature achievement, wants to distance himself from its failures and lack of public support?
 
Re: If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Peri

Kenya? Huh?

As for the CA board, that's the point. Obama waves his wand, and the people who actually deal with his bullshit are stuck as the bad guys because what he said is so unrealistic, all you can do is laugh.

It was a bullshit "fix" because it's impossible. I'm guessing you know less about the health insurance industry than you do ObamaCare, which is a bit scary, too. Even more scary is that you call facts and logic "crazy", and instinctively defend the indefensible.

I thought about this for awhile and I wanted to respond in a different manner. I find your mind set scary also. From my perspective it appears you are automatically dismissive of other peoples points of view who do not align with yours. Using terms like misinformed, low information, and other terms which are meant to belittle the opposing point of view. I'm glad you called me out on my crazy comments, because I was dong the same thing as an emotional reaction to view points expressed by other members who I feel do the same thing. But by using this tactic as well as crying foul over everything just makes me discount any credible points you are making. I realize that this is two sided and Im sure you have similar feelings towards me and you find the liberal mind set just as oppressive as I find the conservative one. Certain things that I see and you don't (or that you see and I don't) seem so obvious that it feels like it is crazy.

Now to qualify my knowledge for you, even though I don't think it should be necessary to do to have a voice. My girlfriend (soon to be fiancé) has worked in medical billing for 13 years and management for 6. My mom is an ex Xray tech and now runs her own successful medical billing business. My dad is an anesthesiologist (and I still have to google the spelling every time), my sister is a nurse in an oncology unit. Im the black sheep in the family and went into technology though, but to say or assume I know little about the health industry is very wrong.
 
Re: If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Peri

Single payer system, or go full social on health care.

How about if we cut costs for those things by cutting the pay of your girlfriend, your mom, and your dad?

Or require they work 50 hours a week?

Or require they see "X" patients per week?

I bet they quit.

Leaving... not too many people good at their jobs doing the job. Like government in general.
 
Re: If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Peri

How about if we cut costs for those things by cutting the pay of your girlfriend, your mom, and your dad?

Or require they work 50 hours a week?

Or require they see "X" patients per week?

I bet they quit.

Leaving... not too many people good at their jobs doing the job. Like government in general.

because that's how it works in the UK, Canada, and pretty much everywhere else in the world?
 
Re: If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Peri

because that's how it works in the UK, Canada, and pretty much everywhere else in the world?

Actually the cash part of that would be true in a social health care system to a degree. Medical workers still live very comfortable lives though. Your make it sound like a concentration camp job.
 
Re: If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Peri

because that's how it works in the UK, Canada, and pretty much everywhere else in the world?

It's questionable that their systems actually work well. Or that the best and brightest choose to become doctors, nurses, etc.

Their systems surely work better than they would because we innovate on their behalf and provide a place to go to get urgent or better care than they're offered by their government.

It's like arguing their armies keep them safe, when it's US might and NATO keeping them safe.

I really prefer the option to sell every asset I own to try and cure some ailment I might get, rather than having some govt. panel decide if my life is worth trying to save.

Better? My ass.
 
Re: If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Peri

It's questionable that their systems actually work well. Or that the best and brightest choose to become doctors, nurses, etc.

Their systems surely work better than they would because we innovate on their behalf and provide a place to go to get urgent or better care than they're offered by their government.

It's like arguing their armies keep them safe, when it's US might and NATO keeping them safe.

I really prefer the option to sell every asset I own to try and cure some ailment I might get, rather than having some govt. panel decide if my life is worth trying to save.

Better? My ass.

Our system now is fucking terrible. Its was quickly becoming a elitist system only affordable by the rich and corporate surfs. Its is also full of corruption, complications, denials, pre existing conditions, malpractice and reactive rather than proactive medicine.

I don't buy that research would halt if we cut that shit out of the system or reduced hundreds of billions of profits to tens of billions of profits for corrupt companies.

Social medicine doesn't mean death panels. Before Obamacare, insurance companies were the death panels making denials and even if you sold everything you owned it wouldn't be enough.

Our armies are in other countries to further our interests, don't kid yourself.
 
Re: If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Peri

Our system now is fucking terrible. Its was quickly becoming a elitist system only affordable by the rich and corporate surfs. Its is also full of corruption, complications, denials, pre existing conditions, malpractice and reactive rather than proactive medicine.

I don't buy that research would halt if we cut that shit out of the system or reduced hundreds of billions of profits to tens of billions of profits for corrupt companies.

Social medicine doesn't mean death panels. Before Obamacare, insurance companies were the death panels making denials and even if you sold everything you owned it wouldn't be enough.

Our armies are in other countries to further our interests, don't kid yourself.

Our system is not terrible. Everyone gets actual care. Our life expectancy is highest in the world when you eliminate gang related type shootings. In fact, it is so good, it attracted your fiancé, mother, father, and all their associates.

At least 90% of the people had insurance, and a good chunk of those who don't didn't want it.

You could sue the insurance companies. Happens all the time. You can't beat city hall, the saying goes.
 
Re: If you like your Healthcare coverage, you can keep your Healthcare coverage! Peri

NBER research shows there are no measurable benefits to Canada's single payer system over ours.

http://www.nber.org/bah/fall07/w13429.html

In fact,

The authors also examine wait times, which are often cited as a problem in Canada. Though comparative information is limited, available data indicate much longer waits in Canada than in the U.S. to consult a specialist and to have non-emergency surgery like knee re-placements. The authors can also draw some inferences from a question about unmet medical needs. While the incidence of unmet needs is slightly lower in Canada (11 percent, vs. 14 percent in the U.S.), it is interesting to note that waiting time is cited as the reason by over half of Canadians who report unmet needs. By contrast, cost is cited as the reason by over half of Americans. The importance of long waits in Canada was recently highlighted by the Chaoulli case in Quebec which successfully challenged the government ban on private provision of medical services covered by the Canadian system. Private services are expected to alleviate shortage of facilities under the system and reduce wait times. Cases are being brought in other provinces.

In the final section of their paper, the authors consider several measures of the success of the two health care systems. The first and perhaps simplest measure is the level of satisfaction reported by patients. Americans are more likely to report that they are fully satisfied with the health services they have received and to rank the quality of care as excellent.

Finally, the authors examine whether Canada has a more equitable distribution of health outcomes, as might be expected in a single-payer system with universal coverage. To do so, they estimate the correlation across individuals in their personal income and personal health status and compare this for the two countries. Surprisingly, they find that the health-income gradient is actually more prominent in Canada than in the U.S.

The authors conclude that while it is commonly supposed that a single-payer, publicly-funded system would deliver better health out-comes and distribute health resources more fairly than a multi-payer system with a large private component, their study does not provide support for this view. They suggest that further comparisons of the U.S. and Canadian health care systems would be useful, for example to explore whether the higher expenditures in the U.S. yield benefits that are worth their cost.
 

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