Immigration

[Stevenson]

Question for you folks who think we have an illegal immigration problem in this country:

What's the problem?

Personally, I don't see it and never encounter it. My grandparents entered Ellis Island around 1905. We are all children of immigrants. My sister-in-law came up with her family illegally from Guatemala in the 80s, when that country was so unsafe. They are all legal now, all hard working Americans, all actually very patriotic.

As David Brooks wrote today in the NY Times: "As a definitive report from the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine recently found, today’s immigrants are assimilating as fast as previous ones. They are learning English. They are healthier than native-born Americans. Immigrant men age 18 to 39 are incarcerated at roughly one-fourth the rate of American men."

So what's your beef? Sincerely, I don't get it.

 

[riverman]

Well said! I don't get it either.

 

[donkiez]

The only problem I see is that in our bastardized immigration system, they are taken advantage of by industry and they don't pay taxes into the system. Both those are easily fixed by making them more legitimate.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

They are brown. Brown is scary.

 

[Denny Crane]

I don't get it, either. These people are going to be the next generation paying off the previous generation in the Social Security ponzi scheme. Let them work and pay taxes, and maybe the deficit will really diminish.

Escondido is for white people! I don't think so. The culture is deeply blended with the rest of us already.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Honestly, it seems like the goal SHOULD be to steal everyone else's people. So we have more troops to invade them with.

 

[riverman]

Hard working immigrants become often times the most loyal patriots we have here. I walked for an hour in the city today and not one hispanic person asked me for money...a dozen young white kids did though. They're not going to get up and go to the factory to work when they can just beg on a blanket and roll cigarettes all day. That is a problem in America.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Hard working immigrants become often times the most loyal patriots we have here. I walked for an hour in the city today and not one hispanic person asked me for money...a dozen young white kids did though. They're not going to get up and go to the factory to work when they can just beg on a blanket and roll cigarettes all day. That is a problem in America.

Can I have a dollar?

 

[riverman]

Can I have a dollar?

sure..now get lost after you give me your cigarettes

 

[andalusian]

Marc Andreessen (Originally of Mosaic and Netscape fame) - who is clearly an alien (of the conehead kind, not the non-American kind) based on his looks and ongoing logic defying financial success actually believes that illegal immigration is the “best thing” that is happening to America - as it slows the depopulation trend that happens in modern western countries - and thus ensuring the continued economic growth of same said country.

Personally, I have no issue what-so-ever with immigration - but agree that it probably needs to be streamlined - to both make it easier to get naturalized legally and get these immigrants into the tax-paying system.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Seriously, why can't we just do the whole Ellis island bit again?

 

[BrianFromWA]

By virtue of the fact that your family went through Ellis Island, they were "legal" immigrants. My green-card-holding-for-55-years-until-she-died grandmother had to wait in France until her green card was approved, and she was married to someone in the military. She did it legally.

Yes, I have a problem with illegal immigration, and it isn't because of jobs, or minimum wages, or even "sending money out of the country". It's because when people are here illegally/undocumented, they are set up to be exploited by pieces of shit for whatever money they do have/earn, or become victims of human trafficking, or have to live under fear of deportation and therefore can be blackmailed into doing criminal activity. I saw this first-hand in Seattle with people our church worked with (especially single-mother Somali families in one part of the neighborhood).

My question would be: why are people against immigrants having to go through the process the government has for immigration (whatever it is) and register to be here legally?
Why is it that Afghans here who have advanced degrees, can speak English and have been (literally) bleeding for the US or have had family members killed or threatened because they work for us can't get a visa to the US, but there are 11M or so undocumented people who just didn't bother to go through the long process and get denied by our government can say "screw it, I'm coming anyway"?

 

[Stevenson]

And it seems an especially dangerous gambit for the Republicans given demographic trends. But that may be the problem actually - they don't like the "browning" of America.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Honestly, it seems like the goal SHOULD be to steal everyone else's people. So we have more troops to invade them with.

I know it's a joke, but one of the tenets of the military is that you have to be able to fight whoever the C-in-C tells you to fight. And if you're from Canada, and you're told to go start fighting Canadians, there's a moral dilemma there that our leaders don't want you struggling with while you're carrying weapons.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Every illegal who helps build the wall gets a green card.

Problem(s) solved!

#SlyPokerDogForPresident2016

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I know it's a joke, but one of the tenets of the military is that you have to be able to fight whoever the C-in-C tells you to fight. And if you're from Canada, and you're told to go start fighting Canadians, there's a moral dilemma there that our leaders don't want you struggling with while you're carrying weapons.

That's the problem Russia ran into when they invaded Afghanistan. They couldn't send in Muslim troops from the 'istan regions and the traditional Russian troops didn't want to be there.

 

[BrianFromWA]

And it seems an especially dangerous gambit for the Republicans given demographic trends. But that may be the problem actually - they don't like the "browning" of America.

Yeah, Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio hate browns.

I know it's easy to just say that anyone against people illegally living here is "against the browns" or racist or whatever, but what makes Hispanic people who can walk across the border more valuable immigrants than Afghans or Syrians or Indians or Filipinos or Chinese? Why do they get to walk across and live here undocumented when the others (including people who would be great resources for our workforce, or soldiers in our army of conqu--military) are stopped?

 

[riverman]

By virtue of the fact that your family went through Ellis Island, they were "legal" immigrants. My green-card-holding-for-55-years-until-she-died grandmother had to wait in France until her green card was approved, and she was married to someone in the military. She did it legally.

Yes, I have a problem with illegal immigration, and it isn't because of jobs, or minimum wages, or even "sending money out of the country". It's because when people are here illegally/undocumented, they are set up to be exploited by pieces of shit for whatever money they do have/earn, or become victims of human trafficking, or have to live under fear of deportation and therefore can be blackmailed into doing criminal activity. I saw this first-hand in Seattle with people our church worked with (especially single-mother Somali families in one part of the neighborhood).

My question would be: why are people against immigrants having to go through the process the government has for immigration (whatever it is) and register to be here legally?
Why is it that Afghans here who have advanced degrees, can speak English and have been (literally) bleeding for the US or have had family members killed or threatened because they work for us can't get a visa to the US, but there are 11M or so undocumented people who just didn't bother to go through the long process and get denied by our government can say "screw it, I'm coming anyway"?

I agree with an element of illegal immigration for the same reason but there are a whole lot of Central American war refugees here who couldn't get an Ellis island intro on the border of Mexico..we have private, high profit prisons there to hold them and send them back to Honduras, Guatemala or whatever Cartel war village in Mexico they're escaping. I think we are not doing the right thing either at the border. I posted an article about this on one of mag's original Trump threads...see if I can find it.

 

[Stevenson]

Brian - I don't think anyone has an issue with some sort of process for documentation. But I don't think illegals have that option. If I lived in say, Mexico, and had no money and no opportunity, I would probably try and sneak into America too.

My point is that I don't really see it as a big problem, policy-wise. I don't get why it's become such a hot-button issue, or why the Republicans don't pass what everyone seems to think is a reasonable Immigration Reform bill - introduced by Marco Rubio before he chickened out!

 

[3RA1N1AC]

I know it's a joke, but one of the tenets of the military is that you have to be able to fight whoever the C-in-C tells you to fight. And if you're from Canada, and you're told to go start fighting Canadians, there's a moral dilemma there that our leaders don't want you struggling with while you're carrying weapons.

That's funny because the police and the national guard seem to have no problem shooting, gassing, and beating up American citizens on the regular.

 

[riverman]

I went through a lengthy process with my wife's immigration. She became a citizen about 7 years ago but in 1991 she was basically shamed at the INS office in Honolulu and grilled about whether she was a prostitute..came home in tears. A round trip ticket from our home in Hilo was 200 bucks for both of us...they extended her interviews for 4 sessions at 200 a pop plus taking off work to make her case. After a year and a half, we went back to Taiwan in frustration. Finally in Portland it was a positive experience and I'm thrilled she's a citizen now.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Yeah, Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio hate browns.

I know it's easy to just say that anyone against people illegally living here is "against the browns" or racist or whatever, but what makes Hispanic people who can walk across the border more valuable immigrants than Afghans or Syrians or Indians or Filipinos or Chinese? Why do they get to walk across and live here undocumented when the others (including people who would be great resources for our workforce, or soldiers in our army of conqu--military) are stopped?

Because they can literally walk here. If an afghan wants to go to Mexico and walk here, he can too.

 

[BrianFromWA]

That's funny because the police and the national guard seem to have no problem shooting, gassing, and beating up American citizens on the regular.

I'll just throw out there that there's a reason that there's a Title X that says the military doesn't usually operate inside the US.

 

[riverman]

I'll just throw out there that there's a reason that there's a Title X that says the military doesn't usually operate inside the US.

You missed the 60's

 

[3RA1N1AC]

I'll just throw out there that there's a reason that there's a Title X that says the military doesn't usually operate inside the US.

http://time.com/3826460/ferguson-national-guard-enemy-forces/

And when you arm your local police with tanks and machine guns, is there that much of a difference?

 

[BrianFromWA]

Yes, I did, but the National Guard is not Title X (unless sent overseas on missions). The 1st Armored Division didn't invade Selma, and F-4s didn't strafe Kent State.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Wgen you arm your local police with tanks and machine guns, is there that much of a difference?

You the citizens are the ones arming (and paying for arming) your police. They don't get that authority from the military.

 

[riverman]

Yes, I did, but the National Guard is not Title X (unless sent overseas on missions). The 1st Armored Division didn't invade Selma, and F-4s didn't strafe Kent State.

I consider the National Guard a domestic military organization

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Is the national guard the military?

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Yes, I did, but the National Guard is not Title X (unless sent overseas on missions). The 1st Armored Division didn't invade Selma, and F-4s didn't strafe Kent State.

Lol

As long as they aren't sending fighter jets in to bomb protesters. That would just be a little much.