James Harden has added the Blazers to his list

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TBpup said:
Not sure who is offering more than Nurk/CJ (which as much as I want CJ gone, wouldn't include Nurkic).

CJ is one of the better creative scoring players in the league. His defense is another thing, but that applies to Harden as well. As for including Nurk, what other team could throw in a 'big' of that caliber? Not many, and certainly very few combined with CJ's scoring ability.

I'm no fan of Harden, but if you can do this and keep Dame/Nurk, you do it....plain and simple. I'd like to keep Zach and would hate to part with Trent, but would likely have to include one or the other. Any way Kanter and Melo can be included? (fingers crossed)
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Some of the teams that could offer decent packages for Harden.
Ind-Atl-Knicks-Magic & Sac
 
Tince said:
This thread is so eye opening as to why some of us are always so disappointed in the franchise. We are over the moon trading Mario for Kanter, but half the people don't want to give up an over-paid SG who everyone complains about for an MVP, 9 time all-NBA player.
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Anyone who thinks this franchise would get Harden without giving up Dame is delusional, and I don't want to do that...
 
Scalma said:
I would bet that once harden gets traded it won’t be for anyone at that level, no matter where he ends up.
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to expand, look at similar situations in the past; Star player actively looking to get traded, to the point where he’s willing to sabotage. Jimmy Butler is the last guy I can think of and he got traded for Covington, Saric, and a second. I realize Harden is better and has an extra season of control, but that’s still not even close to equal value.
 
Players that averaged at least 20 ppg, with 45% FG and 38% 3PT last season

McCollum
Lillard
Kawhi
LaVine
Ingram
Tatum
Middleton
Sexton
Brown

That’s less than ten guys in the entire league, a league that values scoring more than anything else. We’re probably underrating CJs value. He’d be a good get for Houston and is the same age as Wall.
 
Harden supposedly loves the nightlife. Where’s he eager to pop bottles at in Portland?

I think it would make us contenders. But I don’t think a team with a ball dominating Harden will ever win a title.

Could be fun though.
 
Scalma said:
Players that averaged at least 20 ppg, with 45% FG and 38% 3PT last season

McCollum
Lillard
Kawhi
LaVine
Ingram
Tatum
Middleton
Sexton
Brown

That’s less than ten guys in the entire league, a league that values scoring more than anything else. We’re probably underrating CJs value. He’d be a good get for Houston and is the same age as Wall.
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Do you think anyone thinks Colin Sexton would be a decent centerpiece in a Harden deal?
 
Scalma said:
Players that averaged at least 20 ppg, with 45% FG and 38% 3PT last season

McCollum
Lillard
Kawhi
LaVine
Ingram
Tatum
Middleton
Sexton
Brown

That’s less than ten guys in the entire league, a league that values scoring more than anything else. We’re probably underrating CJs value. He’d be a good get for Houston and is the same age as Wall.
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Kind of cool that two played for Portland.
 
LayneStaley said:
It’s interesting we are the only western conference team on his list(so far). I would think that would make us the last team on that list Hou would want to deal him to.
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I don’t think they care which team he goes to. Once they trade him they are going to be rebuilding for a year or two
 
Scalma said:
I would bet that once harden gets traded it won’t be for anyone at that level, no matter where he ends up.
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Portland isn't giving up Dame
Brooklyn isn't giving up Durant
Boston isn't giving up Tatum
Miami isn't giving up Butler
....and so on.

Houston has no leverage to get back another teams best player unless it is a shipwrecked roster like the Knicks.
 
Scalma said:
I would bet that once harden gets traded it won’t be for anyone at that level, no matter where he ends up.
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Reverse psychology

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TBpup said:
Portland isn't giving up Dame
Brooklyn isn't giving up Durant
Boston isn't giving up Tatum
Miami isn't giving up Butler
....and so on.

Houston has no leverage to get back another teams best player unless it is a shipwrecked roster like the Knicks.
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It would be a combination of players and no super star.
 
TBpup said:
Portland isn't giving up Dame
Brooklyn isn't giving up Durant
Boston isn't giving up Tatum
Miami isn't giving up Butler
....and so on.

Houston has no leverage to get back another teams best player unless it is a shipwrecked roster like the Knicks.
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In most cases (aside from Tatum in Boston), Houston isn't even going to want another team's best player. They're not looking to replace their 31 year old, expensive superstar with another ~30 year old, expensive superstar. They wouldn't want Lillard. Lillard is on the same basic timeline as Harden and expensive, so how does that help them? They just get worse in that exchange and piss off their fanbase.

Houston is going to want a young star (who isn't currently as good as Harden, which is the incentive for the other team), plus a young player or two who profiles as a solid long-term supporting player and two or three draft picks.

CJ McCollum isn't a young star--he's an overpaid decent veteran. Nurkic also doesn't qualify as a young star. So Portland simply doesn't have the centerpiece for a Harden trade.
 
Scalma said:
Players that averaged at least 20 ppg, with 45% FG and 38% 3PT last season

McCollum
Lillard
Kawhi
LaVine
Ingram
Tatum
Middleton
Sexton
Brown

That’s less than ten guys in the entire league, a league that values scoring more than anything else. We’re probably underrating CJs value. He’d be a good get for Houston and is the same age as Wall.
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Why? That ignores an entire aspect of scoring, free throws, which McCollum is awful at generating. It also ignores the distribution of his shots. 45% and 38% is good if most of his shots were threes, but most of his shots are twos. Only 38% of his shots are threes, which needs to be much higher to compensate for his inability to get free throws.

Here are the top players in the league in terms of usage rate last year:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2020_advanced.html#advanced_stats::usg_pct

CJ is 39th at 25.9% with a 54.1% TS%. Of the guys ahead of him, only 3 posted a worse TS%: Westbrook, Randle, LeVert, and Wiggins. Of the rest of the list (so 39th-100th in USG%), here are the guys that put up lower or similar TS%: Brogdon, Holiday, Graham, Conley, Barrett, Poole, Fultz, Portis, Rubio, Brooks.

The truth is, his offensive impact is probably close to the guys listed above. Now consider that he doesn't really do much else on the floor, ie. he's not a good playmaker, he dominates possessions, has gotten worse every year, and he is arguably the worst defensive player in the league when you take into consideration his role and minutes played.....the reality is he's an overpaid volume shooter with average efficiency. You can find these guys anywhere. His only role in a trade is name recognition and salary matching.
 
Minstrel said:
In most cases (aside from Tatum in Boston), Houston isn't even going to want another team's best player. They're not looking to replace their 31 year old, expensive superstar with another ~30 year old, expensive superstar. They wouldn't want Lillard. Lillard is on the same basic timeline as Harden and expensive, so how does that help them? They just get worse in that exchange and piss off their fanbase.

Houston is going to want a young star (who isn't currently as good as Harden, which is the incentive for the other team), plus a young player or two who profiles as a solid long-term supporting player and two or three draft picks.

CJ McCollum isn't a young star--he's an overpaid decent veteran. Nurkic also doesn't qualify as a young star. So Portland simply doesn't have the centerpiece for a Harden trade.
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We'll see what they end up taking. They just took John Wall and picks for Westbrook. It seems to me that if we're willing to give up the picks and send both Nurk and CJ they might be open to that. They might want to try to flip CJ or Wall but I don't think they care about doing anything but getting picks and matching salaries with some quality players. At least that's what the Wall trade would communicate.
 
MickZagger said:
Harden supposedly loves the nightlife. Where’s he eager to pop bottles at in Portland?

I think it would make us contenders. But I don’t think a team with a ball dominating Harden will ever win a title.

Could be fun though.
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I Ubered Harden in Portland from a Hookah Lounge (King’s) to a dance hotel (can’t remember the name). He didn’t tip me but I’m in.
 
Minstrel said:
Houston is going to want a young star (who isn't currently as good as Harden, which is the incentive for the other team), plus a young player or two who profiles as a solid long-term supporting player and two or three draft picks.
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What you are saying is true from Houston's standpoint. But which team wants to give them that? He is not going to be happy on a team that is gutted. And flipping him would make no sense after you traded a good package to get him.

Brooklyn definitely has a lot to offer (3-4 players who add up to 40 million) but if I am the Nets I want to hold on to those young players. Lavert, Harris, Prince, and Dinwiddle are excellent compliments to Kyrie and KD.

Not sure what team makes sense for both parties.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
What you are saying is true from Houston's standpoint. But which team wants to give them that? He is not going to be happy on a team that is gutted. And flipping him would make no sense after you traded a good package to get him.

Brooklyn definitely has a lot to offer (3-4 players who add up to 40 million) but if I am the Nets I want to hold on to those young players. Lavert, Harris, Prince, and Dinwiddle are excellent compliments to Kyrie and KD.

Not sure what team makes sense for both parties.
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The Nets according to Woj definitely offered those players but according to many sources Houston wants draft picks along with any package and the Nets were not going to add draft picks to that haul.
 
noknobs said:
Anyone who thinks this franchise would get Harden without giving up Dame is delusional, and I don't want to do that...
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Some Rockets fans think they can get Dame & pick, when obviously Portland would never do a Dame for Harden trade straight up.

Some Blazer fans, talk about CJ being worthless, but think he would be too much to give up for Harden.

The fan delusion knows no bounds.
 
blazerkor said:
The Nets according to Woj definitely offered those players but according to many sources Houston wants draft picks along with any package and the Nets were not going to add draft picks to that haul.
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Wow ok. That is crazy IMO for both teams. Crazy that the Nets offered what they did, and crazy Houston turned them down.
Thoe players are pretty good, and with tradeable contracts.
 
Minstrel said:
I don't think Harden actually has interest in becoming a Blazer, though the possibility that he's close with Olshey makes me think that the 0% chance is maybe more like 10%.

The bigger problem is that Portland has nothing to offer. McCollum is not a star, not particularly young and he's way overpaid--pretty much the worst possible asset to offer to a team that's looking to rebuild, trading the second-best player in their history and doesn't want to spend a ton of money. Harden is not in his final year, so Houston doesn't have to be desperate to trade now and, even if they were, they can definitely get better than McCollum. Nothing else Portland has to offer rates as more than a throw-in, for a deal like this. To cut bait on Harden now, a few years before he reaches free agency, Houston is (rightly) going to want a young star, some talented young supporting players and some first round picks.

Finally, even though Portland can't get him, Portland should absolutely want him. He's definitely one of the five best players in the league and arguably a top-ten offensive weapon in NBA history. The upgrade over McCollum shatters the measurement device. Yes, he always wants to be the hub, but he's a hub that's great at getting everyone involved and scores efficiently. You should always want more of those players.
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If Houston takes their time then I agree with your post.

The only reason the Blazers could have a chance is if Houston is desperate to get Harden out. Brooklyn supposedly prefers their two current stars and role players. Philly may not want to give up Simmons and Houston may not want to give Harden to Morey.

There just aren't many allstars or young future allstars available after that. Michael Porter Jr has injury history. Add to that the team acquiring Harden has to contend after trading a lot of talent for him.

There arent many teams with these options. CJ is locked up for a long time, along with some picks maybe they decide to talk if they get desperate to send Harden out.
 
AmirIcon said:
I'm more interested in a championship than an MVP award but whatever floats your boat.
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Then you should start focusing on the people wearing uniforms vs the people wearing suits, that's where championships are won.
 
Tince said:
Some Rockets fans think they can get Dame & pick, when obviously Portland would never do a Dame for Harden trade straight up.

Some Blazer fans, talk about CJ being worthless, but think he would be too much to give up for Harden.

The fan delusion knows no bounds.
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It's pretty ridiculous. I could really see a CJ, Nurk and picks for Harden deal happening. CJ is Harden light, Nurk is a great piece for them next to Wood and the reporters have said that they're all about building up a cache of picks. Neil and Dame have really good relationships with Harden. Neil really likes Zach and I'm betting he likes the pieces he just picked up as well.
 
Just woke up Xmas day and it looks like Santa was late bringing Harden to PDX.
 
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