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Henson is basically Ed Davis. Henson is also having a down year, though not to the extent that Davis is. I like Davis and Henson, but the Blazers probably don't need both of them. I expect Davis to eventually come out of his funk, because it's not like he's aged out of his prime or had a career-altering injury.
 
John Henson is basically Ed Davis except he's not.

Holler at me when Davis has the rim protection, shot blocking, and defensive rating numbers Henson had last season. I mean it's a joke to put the two in the same sentence. Henson averaged nearly FOUR times the blocks Davis did last season per/36. and that wasn't just a one year fluke. Year before same thing. Even this year he's averaged more than double the blocks Davis has.
 
Scalma said:
John Henson is basically Ed Davis except he's not.

Holler at me when Davis has the rim protection, shot blocking, and defensive rating numbers Henson had last season. I mean it's a joke to put the two in the same sentence.
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Yeah, he blocks more shots, but about those Defensive Rating numbers before this year...

Henson: 105, 98, 108, 102
Davis: 104, 107, 103, 102, 101

Yeah, absolutely no comparison when it comes to overall defensive impact.

Of course, you might be right that these two guys can't really be compared:

Henson Offensive Rating: 108, 108, 106, 106, 103
Davis Offensive Rating: 115, 128, 124, 110, 114, 108

Davis' worst Offensive Rating (5 years ago) is equal to Henson's best.

Davis also blows Henson away in Defensive Rebound Rate, Offensive Rebound Rate and (unsurprisingly then) Total Rebound Rate.

Davis also has a significantly higher scoring efficiency.

By eye test, I thought they were fairly similarly valuable big men, in terms of being good defensive bigs who are both solid roll men on offense. But you encouraging me to look deeper at the stats has convinced me that, indeed, Ed Davis is much better overall. Good catch.
 
Maybe I remembered his defensive rating wrong, I'll take the L on that. But it's interesting how you left out/ignored the rim protection, blocked shots, and the defensive bpm. Those are all more important than offense, since both are pretty much useless on that end. I know Davis is a better rebounder, but that's pretty much it.
 
Scalma said:
Maybe I remembered his defensive rating wrong, I'll take the L on that. But it's interesting how you left out/ignored the rim protection, blocked shots, and the defensive bpm.
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I didn't leave out rim protection/blocked shots--I stipulated at the start that Henson blocks more shots. But the effects of that should be taken into account by Defensive Rating, and Defensive Rating also encapsulates other aspects of good defense. They're both very good defenders (though Davis has slumped so far on that end this year for no obvious reason).

Also, they're not useless on offense. Both have positive offensive impact--being a good roll man in the pick-and-roll is a valuable skill, considering the league is now a spread pick-and-roll league. Davis also augments his offensive value with put-backs.
 
I believe Bucks won this trade 100%. 3 garbage players involved. 1 of them has a bad/expensive contract for 3 more years while one has an expiring one and the other a 6M player option which is not that expensive. Charlotte got the bad contract. I suppose they did that because they ll have no cap space to sign anyone else, but still Plumlee is really bad. On the other hand Bucks will have the last chance to make some FA moves before Jabari gets paid and that is why they damp salary with this trade. They literally traded away a 50M DNP-CD.
 
There's hope that we can get rid of Meyers if a guy making 10 million more can get traded for almost expirings!
 
Minstrel said:
By eye test, I thought they were fairly similarly valuable big men, in terms of being good defensive bigs who are both solid roll men on offense. But you encouraging me to look deeper at the stats has convinced me that, indeed, Ed Davis is much better overall.
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Well that's discouraging. Ed Davis is such an unskilled player - he's basically a smaller (and worse) version of Joel Przybilla. I like both Ed and Joel, but neither are/were very good. I thought Henson would be like Ed Davis+, which isn't very exciting. But if he's Ed Davis- that's really disappointing.
 
I really want Ibaka and Whiteside. Doubt we get either one though. Sounds to good to be true. I'm not getting my hopes up for anything really.
 
blue9 said:
Well that's discouraging. Ed Davis is such an unskilled player - he's basically a smaller (and worse) version of Joel Przybilla. I like both Ed and Joel, but neither are/were very good.
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I don't agree--Ed Davis isn't a great player by any means, but until this year, he's been a good role-player. He may not look impressive, but when he's on the court, through his career, the other team scores at a less efficient rate and his team scores at a more efficient rate. I'd say that he's like a less-athletic DeAndre Jordan or something--he doesn't have the explosion to block a lot of shots or dunk lobs, but he's a strong roller on the pick-and-roll and plays strong positional and team defense.

The defensive stuff is prior to this year, though. For whatever reason, his defense has collapsed this year. If this year is what Davis will be from now on, then he's not a good player. But since he's still in his prime and hasn't suffered some serious injury, I'd assume this is just a temporary bad stretch.
 
If there is one single player in all of the NBA that I had to bet on getting traded by the deadline it is Nurkic. With Jokic back he was DNP-CD last night.
 
Problem is denvers gm doesn't trade unless he "wins" the deal, so it'll be hard for him to pull the trigger because Nurkic' value is really low right now.
 
So either he's involved in a trade or he has an injury that they don't want to disclose yet.
 
Very quit now. The rumored deals all sound too one sided to happen as reported.
Appears the 76ers want a kings ransom for Okafor. They probably want more for Noel.
The Magic still want too much for UFA Ibaka.
 
oldfisherman said:
Very quit now. The rumored deals all sound too one sided to happen as reported.
Appears the 76ers want a kings ransom for Okafor. They probably want more for Noel.
The Magic still want too much for UFA Ibaka.
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This is probably why most deals don't get done until deadline day. Asking prices will go down, especially when it's a player a team is motivated to deal (Ibaka for example)
 
Orlando have little reason to keep Ibaka if they are not going to sign him after season. We should exploit that but not offer too much.

Nurkic is interesting but Denver are in no hurry to sell him. They will still have him for two more reasons and he is very young. Hope we can lure him but our assets are not very attractive to Nuggets.
 
Sarni said:
Orlando have little reason to keep Ibaka if they are not going to sign him after season. We should exploit that but not offer too much.

Nurkic is interesting but Denver are in no hurry to sell him. They will still have him for two more reasons and he is very young. Hope we can lure him but our assets are not very attractive to Nuggets.
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IMO Nurk is the better and cheaper avenue to pursue, he still on a rookie deal this yr and next so he is cheap contract wise which helps a lot vs having to pay Ibaka a huge deal this summer. Also I think Nurk would be a good bit cheaper to obtain then Ibaka in a trade and he wants out badly. In addition I have to wonder why Orlando appears ready to give up on Ibaka after trading away so much for him? they gave up Victor Oladipo, Ersan Ilyasova, and what became No. 11 pick Domantas Sabonis
 
oldfisherman said:
Magic are trying to pump-up Ibaka's trade value.
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they gave up a LOT (Victor Oladipo, Ersan Ilyasova, what became No. 11 pick Domantas Sabonis) for him and now they are desperate Iguess to get some value back and not look like total idiots
 
Blazinaway said:
IMO Nurk is the better and cheaper avenue to pursue, he still on a rookie deal this yr and next so he is cheap contract wise which helps a lot vs having to pay Ibaka a huge deal this summer. Also I think Nurk would be a good bit cheaper to obtain then Ibaka in a trade and he wants out badly. In addition I have to wonder why Orlando appears ready to give up on Ibaka after trading away so much for him? they gave up Victor Oladipo, Ersan Ilyasova, and what became No. 11 pick Domantas Sabonis
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Not much to wonder about. He's going to be a free agent and he's not going to stay, so they are trying to deal him and get something so they don't lose him for nothing...sounds sorta familiar
 
Blazinaway said:
they give up a LOT (Victor Oladipo, Ersan Ilyasova, what became No. 11 pick Domantas Sabonis) for him and now they are desperate Iguess to get some value back and not look like total idiots
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Don't try to understand what Orlando is doing, it's not worth it.

They gave away Harkless, Frye, and Tobias Harris for pretty much nothing as well.
 
Scalma said:
Don't try to understand what Orlando is doing, it's not worth it.

They gave away Harkless, Frye, and Tobias Harris for pretty much nothing as well.
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Oladipo will join that list too, and Sabonis. One year of Ibaka in which they weren't even good.

Their young talent has not really been developing very well - Payton, Hezonja and Gordon.
 
Sarni said:
Oladipo will join that list too, and Sabonis. One year of Ibaka in which they weren't even good.

Their young talent has not really been developing very well - Payton, Hezonja and Gordon.
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Orlando is dumb as fuck.
 
The Magic's biggest problem is they do not have a franchise player. None of their players come anywhere near Dame's & CJ's level of talent and leadership. All they have are role players. Many of their players would do well on a playoff team, the way Harkless has played better here than there.
 
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Sarni said:
Orlando have little reason to keep Ibaka if they are not going to sign him after season. We should exploit that but not offer too much.

Nurkic is interesting but Denver are in no hurry to sell him. They will still have him for two more reasons and he is very young. Hope we can lure him but our assets are not very attractive to Nuggets.
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If they don't want to move him, why aren't they playing him? Seriously, they tried the Jokic/Nurkic combo last year and again this year at the start of the season. They both play well separately, but put them on the court together and it's a disaster:

"That's not going to change if Jokic stays healthy. The Nuggets have tried playing the two together, and it doesn't work. They get outscored by 16.1 points per 100 possessions whenever sharing the floor—and they've played just five minutes together since Nov. 11."

He wants out of DEN and they want to move him. If he isn't traded to the highest bidder by the deadline, he will surely be traded during the summer. They struck gold with Jokic in the second round in that draft (41st pick), and even though Nurkic was a good value at the 16th pick, they are looking to move him for another potential asset.

Could be something as simple as a mid first round pick, or two later picks. They are looking to rebuild around Jokic and also also shopping Galinari, Chandler, Barton and Faried. Galinari, Chandler and Faried all have another two years left after this season and are all too old to figure into their youth movement. Even with those three on the books, DEN will go into the summer with about $46 million in available cap space. Thye can easily absorb a big contract - especially if they can get rid of one of those three in the process.

So, maybe they look to Nurkic along with one of those big contracts for a pick and a younger player - someone like Allen Crabbe. But, unless they think Crabbe can play SF, they may not want him. They believe 19-year old Jamal Murray is their SG of the future. So, unless they plan on playing Crabbe at SF or eventually becoming Murray's back up, he may not make sense for them. I don't think we have anything else they'd want other than 1st round picks. Perhaps get a third team, like ORL, PHI or BRK involved - but the latter would have to wait until July to get Crabbe - one year after we matched BRK's offer.

BNM
 
oldfisherman said:
The Magic's biggest problem is they do not have a franchise player. None of their players come anywhere near Dame's & CJ's level of talent and leadership. All they have are role players. Many of their players would do well on a playoff team, the way Harkless has played better here than there.
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Tobias Harris has really played well in DET after they traded him. He's their leading scorer.

Of course, he also played well in ORL before they traded him. It's like ORL can't seem to think more than one move ahead. They traded Harris to create playing time for the even younger Aaron Gordon, and then they trade for the even older Ibabka and forced Gordon to play out of position at SF - which is killing his development.

Nothing they do makes any sense.

BNM
 
If there's any way to get Evan Fournier, we should pursue it. I know we need bigs but that dude is basically Crabbe with handles, passing ability, and finishing ability.
 
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