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inconceivable said:
Miami: Herro is better than Maxey

The Philadelphia 76ers have told teams that Tyrese Maxey is untouchable in any type of deal.

Miami can't find a suitor for Tyler Herro.

Make it make sense.
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It’s all theater. None of it is real. It is posturing. Dame is doing it. The blazers are doing it. The Heat are doing it. Philly is doing.
 
Whyachi said:
I guess we can be thankful Lillard doesn't want to go to Lakers. They don't have any picks, and would trade Cam Reddish back to Portland.
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And would ask for a pick because Reddish has more potential.
 
inconceivable said:
Miami: Herro is better than Maxey

The Philadelphia 76ers have told teams that Tyrese Maxey is untouchable in any type of deal.

Miami can't find a suitor for Tyler Herro.

Make it make sense.
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If a team wants Lillard, somebody is going to need to be touchable.
 
Graduate32 said:
Even then such comparisons are heavily influenced by lineups, rotations, etc. There is just so much noise in individual defensive statistics as they are currently constructed.

It's quite possible that Herro is a better defender with Miami than Ant is with the Blazers... that said, I have a really hard time believing, admittedly based on the little I've seen of Herro over the years, that he would be an appreciable upgrade over Ant on defense for the Blazers.
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he'd be an incremental upgrade, if for no other reason than his 17.3% to 7.6% defensive rebounding advantage; that's pretty significant

but again, neither of these guys are worth the salary and usage they represent, not with their defensive flaws
 
beast crnjo said:
And Herro playing on a good defensive team vs Simons on a bad defensive team makes that stat look even better for Herro no?
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I don't see that

it's a comparison to how the Blazers performed defensively all year long and thru all rotations and lineups, to how that same team performed when Ant was on the floor. Thybulle came into Portland and had a defensive rating that was 2.8 points better than the team. He 'replaced' Hart who was 1 point better then the team. There could be some rotational skew, but Ant averaged 35 minutes a game; he was on the floor 73% of the time so he'd be part of most rotations

and it matches the eyeball test....Ant was horrible at defense last season and it was visible.
 
CJ_is_Gone said:
Considering that Herro is at least on par with Simons - that should give all Blazer fans an idea of Ant's value around the league.
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Every team needs that guy who can get hot and torch an opponent on any given night.

Most teams in the NBA have that guy who can get hot and torch an opponent on any given night.
 
Comparing individual defensive stats for Herro and Ant makes very little sense to me.

Miami has elite best of the best wing defense and a DPOY rim protector. It also has a coach that has revolutionized the modern zone.

We don't. We have guards and wings that cant move their feet or fight thru screens and a big who can't play the style our novice coach wants him to.

Put Ant in Miami and his defensively metrics instantly improve. Put Herro in Portland and his numbers instantly worsen.
 
inconceivable said:
They are never bidding against themselves because Dame is not a free agent.

So if it's not Miami's offer vs Boston or Philly or Brooklyn or Toronto or Orlando or San Antonio or OKC or LAC or Utah or NOLA, then it's Miami's offer vs the Blazers keeping Dame.

Miami is never without a rival because the Blazers do not have to trade Dame to them despite his wishes. It's called a contract. It's a request. Joe is not Genie and Dame don't have the magic lamp.

Miami is on the clock, they need Dame more than we need to trade Dame.

Dame is on the clock, he needs to help the Blazers trade him. He can do that by backing out of the Miami only request. Then maybe Dame will end up in a good situation for him and Blazers get the right amount of pieces and draft capital to build around Scoot and Shaedon.

For the time being:

Dame-Scoot
Ant-Shae-Keon
Tisse-Nas-Rayan-Butler
Jerami-Kris-Jabari
Nurk-Wood-Badji
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I agree with you, but my point is that the perception in the media is Miami feels like they don't have to increase their offer because no one else is in the running. Which is why I was saying at some point Joe might need to say if their offer does not get better we are good with keeping Dame. At that point, Miami will either increase their offer or Dame will have to make it known he is open to being traded to other teams.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
I agree with you, but my point is that the perception in the media is Miami feels like they don't have to increase their offer because no one else is in the running. Which is why I was saying at some point Joe might need to say if their offer does not get better we are good with keeping Dame. At that point, Miami will either increase their offer or Dame will have to make it known he is open to being traded to other teams.
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I'm interested in learning how Jimmy will react when he finds out his team is haggling over protections of a pick in 2030 instead of just getting Dame. No free agent will ever want to go to Miami again.
 
CJ_is_Gone said:
Disagree with you here.
And Wiz provides the stats to back that statement up!
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Again, though... There is a ton of noise there. Did Herro play in rotations with stronger defensive pieces around him? Do they have a stronger system with greater team discipline to adhere to the defensive gameplan?

The question remains that if you were to put Herro and Ant in the same defensive eco-system, how would they compare? Could Herro be incrementally better defensive? Sure, but I just don't think any of those stats are anywhere near conclusive.
 
I'm waiting for the Press Release stating the Blazers have taken Lillard off the market and look forward to him honoring the four years left on his contract. I think the game of chicken has ended. It can only go on so long. Let Philly set the market with Harden.
 
BIG Q said:
I'm waiting for the Press Release stating the Blazers have taken Lillard off the market and look forward to him honoring the four years left on his contract. I think the game of chicken has ended. It can only go on so long. Let Philly set the market with Harden.
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I agree with taking Dame off the table but disagree with the notion that Harden should set the market.

Dame is much better than James at this point and has a track record of professionalism and leadership that James can only dream of. And Harden is a one yr rental while Dame has 3+1 yrs left. Apples/Oranges.
 
Hoopguru said:
I have a GUT feeling that Dame and Zer's will patch things up.
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Wouldn’t that be unprecedented.

I’m at the point where I’m okay either way. Trade Lillard only if we get some shiny new toys that we’re excited about. If no reasonable trade materializes, and Lillard is okay with sticking around, I’d love to see him retire as a Blazer.

Even with him sticking around, the Blazers are the 3rd youngest team in the league. Keep working on balancing the roster by moving Simons and seeing if we can pickup a starting level big.

If Joe is good at his job, he should always have his eye on multiple options and be able to pivot on a moments notice if options present themselves.
 
Damian Lillard - bad defender as a Blazer
CJ McCollum - bad defender as a Blazer
Robert Covington elsewhere 1st team All NBA defense
Robert Covington - below average defender as a Blazer
Norman Powell elsewhere considered a very good defender
Norman Powell - below average defender as a Blazer
Anferenee Simons - bad defender as a Blazer

I'm seeing a theme of a team with poor defense, even when very good to all-NBA defenders are here. Many different players, coaches, GMs, but one superstar leader for one single team.

There is much more to the bad Blazers defense in recent years than Ant's individual performance or individual abilities. Switch Ant with Herro is basically irrelevant.

Let's see what new leadership and new direction for the Blazers does this year. No I don't expect wins, but we might have a different focus on defense.
 
It sure seems like Miami is trying to play hard ball. If they were offering the absolute best they could this might be done. Maybe not. Even their best and last isn’t very good. But Joe is fighting for his career right now. This is his 0.9. This is his wave moment. If he bricks the shot he will never get another GM position again.
 
illmatic99 said:
I'm interested in learning how Jimmy will react when he finds out his team is haggling over protections of a pick in 2030 instead of just getting Dame. No free agent will ever want to go to Miami again.
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It will have no impact on them as long as they have Dame there by training camp... it might mean that their bench is a little weaker and that will be their fault but I don't think Jimmy or anybody (free agents or any players in the league) cares how these GMs and agents get them what they want as long as they get it.

I think that's something that people who are mad at Dame don't get, these players cannot afford to have the fans factor into their decisions. It's them the players who have a short time to make hundreds of millions of dollars against big multibillion dollar companies. These players have to be willing to go scorched earth because they never have the advantage just due to them being a much smaller business entity with a vastly shorter earning window than the teams.

Also Dame isn't hurting his brand right now, people that think that are being naive. Damian Lillard, Dame DOLLA and Dame Time are not local brands they are international brands and I just don't see fans around the league killing Dame over this, some think that the one team thing is extreme but they aren't killing him over wanting out and burning the team in the process. Most fans are saying that it's been overdue.

Going back to the GMs, they won't be judged for when they get things done this offseason by the players or the fans but what they get done before the season begins or maybe even just by the time it impacts their chances to win. For us it will be judged on our perceived chance to win in the future but for Miami or whoever Dame ends up with it will be a judgement executed pretty immediately, they'll have to start winning more immediately, do better in the playoffs this season and for the next few.
 
42N8Bounce said:
Wouldn’t that be unprecedented.

I’m at the point where I’m okay either way. Trade Lillard only if we get some shiny new toys that we’re excited about. If no reasonable trade materializes, and Lillard is okay with sticking around, I’d love to see him retire as a Blazer.

Even with him sticking around, the Blazers are the 3rd youngest team in the league. Keep working on balancing the roster by moving Simons and seeing if we can pickup a starting level big.

If Joe is good at his job, he should always have his eye on multiple options and be able to pivot on a moments notice if options present themselves.
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Kobe and the Lakers patched it up, traded for Gasol. Then won titles.
 
Hoopguru said:
I have a GUT feeling that Dame and Zer's will patch things up.
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SharpesTriumph said:
Kobe and the Lakers patched it up, traded for Gasol. Then won titles.
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You have to have two interested parties and right now I don't think either side has any interest in patching things up. I actually think the greater interest in staying would be from Dame but it would take a big move from Joe that I'm not sure he was ever truly interested in making and it definitely doesn't seem like he's interested in making now.
 
blazerkor said:
It will have no impact on them as long as they have Dame there by training camp... it might mean that their bench is a little weaker and that will be their fault but I don't think Jimmy or anybody (free agents or any players in the league) cares how these GMs and agents get them what they want as long as they get it.

I think that's something that people who are mad at Dame don't get, these players cannot afford to have the fans factor into their decisions. It's them the players who have a short time to make hundreds of millions of dollars against big multibillion dollar companies. These players have to be willing to go scorched earth because they never have the advantage just due to them being a much smaller business entity with a vastly shorter earning window than the teams.

Also Dame isn't hurting his brand right now, people that think that are being naive. Damian Lillard, Dame DOLLA and Dame Time are not local brands they are international brands and I just don't see fans around the league killing Dame over this, some think that the one team thing is extreme but they aren't killing him over wanting out and burning the team in the process. Most fans are saying that it's been overdue.

Going back to the GMs, they won't be judged for when they get things done this offseason by the players or the fans but what they get done before the season begins or maybe even just by the time it impacts their chances to win. For us it will be judged on our perceived chance to win in the future but for Miami or whoever Dame ends up with it will be a judgement executed pretty immediately, they'll have to start winning more immediately, do better in the playoffs this season and for the next few.
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I was being facetious.
 
illmatic99 said:
I have them all on mute. Idiots. Simons was drafted as an SG. Only reason he isn't there fulltime is because he gets cooked defensively
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I'm not sure where someone is thought to be position wise on draft night should hold any weight to where they are most impactful in todays NBA. Jamal Murray was drafted as a SG and appears to be best off as a PG.
 
Tince said:
I'm not sure where someone is thought to be position wise on draft night should hold any weight to where they are most impactful in todays NBA. Jamal Murray was drafted as a SG and appears to be best off as a PG.
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Ok. Let's listen to another Goodwin shill, trade Scoot and make Ant out mainstay PG.
 
illmatic99 said:
Ok. Let's listen to another Goodwin shill, trade Scoot and make Ant out mainstay PG.
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Who's a Goodwin shill? I didn't say anything about trading Scoot or making Ant our mainstay PG.

You ok?
 
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