Miami Heat Dame Trade Ideas and Rumors (1 Viewer)

[superfly4201]

That's your opinion.

In my opinion, asking Dame and others to sit 2 seasons in a row to tank was aggressively attempting to improve the team.
Also in my opinion, the Blazers may have struck gold in both drafts.

This wasn't the way Dame wanted to improve, but again in my opinion, Cronin probably improved the team more than he could have in a trade, while at the same time not selling out the future.

This 100%. In both drafts the Blazers did what’s best for the franchise. The trades weren’t there for the picks. Toronto overplayed their hand with the 7th pick in 22’. Joe made all the right decisions for the team’s future. Nobody lied, Joe tried, it takes 2 to tango and teams weren’t willing to step up. Joe made the right moves with what he had.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I'm willing and extremely committed to be very aggressive in getting 20k subscribers next year.

If I ultimate end up with 9k subscribers would I be a liar?

Depends. Did you actively avoid actions that would have been likely to increase your follower count? If so, then one could reasonably conclude that your commitment claim was overstated.

 

[Phatguysrule]

 

[Phatguysrule]

He stated he was willing and obligated to be aggressive in building around Dame. If he then wasn't aggressive in building around Dame and chose to a completely different direction, how is that not a lie?

What deal did Joe reject that would have netted a better return than Sharpe, Grant or Scoot?

I sure didn't hear about any...

 

[julius]

What deal did Joe reject that would have netted a better return than Sharpe, Grant or Scoot?

I sure didn't hear about any...

probably any deal that was available, or offered/suggested, was one that would deplete the blazers of any youth.

I.e., Ant, Shaedon and #3 for Brown, who could just leave at the end of the year.

Or those 3 for Bridges, which would be an insane and massive overpay and really was based on 20 something games he played for with the Nets.

Or those 3 for OG, which would be a massive overpay too (and he could leave after the year).

So all in all, each of those trades could be franchise crippling, and depleting the only young talent they have that could usher in the next "generation" of Blazers.

 

[Phatguysrule]

probably any deal that was available, or offered/suggested, was one that would deplete the blazers of any youth.

I.e., Ant, Shaedon and #3 for Brown, who could just leave at the end of the year.

Or those 3 for Bridges, which would be an insane and massive overpay and really was based on 20 something games he played for with the Nets.

Or those 3 for OG, which would be a massive overpay too (and he could leave after the year).

So all in all, each of those trades could be franchise crippling, and depleting the only young talent they have that could usher in the next "generation" of Blazers.

None of that would have gotten the Blazers closer to a title though... seriously. Would any of those deals have made us any more competitive at all?

 

[julius]

None of that would have gotten the Blazers closer to a title though... seriously. Would any of those deals have made us any more competitive at all?

MORE competitive, yes. But 4-5-6 at best, and most likely 5. Not worth, imho, mortgaging the future for at best more of the same mediocre results.

I think Damian had an unrealistic expectation of what they could do to appease him (I mean ffs, he thought Keljin was an NBA talent).

 

[KingSpeed]

None of that would have gotten the Blazers closer to a title though... seriously. Would any of those deals have made us any more competitive at all?

In the West, it wouldn’t have even guaranteed the play in.

 

[CJ_is_Gone]

If he wasn't willing to kick the tires on Jaylen Brown, then all his statements about being willing to be aggressive in building around Dame and being willing to overpay are a lie to me. He made sure to kick the tires on the obviously untouchable Bam Adebayo though.

Brown isnt as good as his reputation. I wouldn't have given up #3 for him

 

[superfly4201]

What deal did Joe reject that would have netted a better return than Sharpe, Grant or Scoot?

I sure didn't hear about any...

I’ve asked this question 1000 times and only got crickets. I’ve also asked what is Miami’s actual offer……still waiting

 

[Phatguysrule]

In the West, it wouldn’t have even guaranteed the play in.

That's my thinking as well... if Scoot pops and Sharpe takes a step forward and we could get Ayton for Nurk and change we could be nearly as good by keeping the young guys with Dame.

Especially if we could get a fair return out of Simons...

 

[PtldPlatypus]

What deal did Joe reject that would have netted a better return than Sharpe, Grant or Scoot?

I sure didn't hear about any...

Not really a relevant question, since that's not Bones' claim. The claim is that Cronin didn't actually make any effort to gauge Brown's availability. It's not about whether he had an opportunity to pull the trigger on a deal; it's about whether or not he ever even put the scope on his rifle.

 

[PCmor7]

I'm willing and extremely committed to be very aggressive in getting 20k subscribers next year.

If I ultimate end up with 9k subscribers would I be a liar?

I'm still trying to figure out why Bones isn't calling Dame a liar, because he promised to stay with the Blazers and try to bring a championship to Portland.

How is that different than Cronin seeing the cards he's dealt and concluding the move most likely to win a title is drafting the oft-considered transcendent talent instead of trading him and so much more to get OG Anunoby?

 

[PCmor7]

MORE competitive, yes. But 4-5-6 at best, and most likely 5. Not worth, imho, mortgaging the future for at best more of the same mediocre results.

I think Damian had an unrealistic expectation of what they could do to appease him (I mean ffs, he thought Keljin was an NBA talent).

Well, Dame also told the public that there were difference-makers around the league who wanted to come to Portland to play by his side.

Maybe that was a lie, too ....

 

[superfly4201]

Not really a relevant question, since that's not Bones' claim. The claim is that Cronin didn't actually make any effort to gauge Brown's availability. It's not about whether he had an opportunity to pull the trigger on a deal; it's about whether or not he ever even put the scope on his rifle.

Any GM is certainly going to listed to an offer, assuming there was one. But if it starts out that we want Ant, #3 and Sharpe for Brown you say thanks but no thanks. This narrative that Brown wanted to come here and Joe wouldn’t listen is crap. Boston thought they could fleece us and Joe shut it down like he should. Then they had to back up the truck and grossly overpay Brown. There stuck doing the same with Tatum next year and are screwed.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Not really a relevant question, since that's not Bones' claim. The claim is that Cronin didn't actually make any effort to gauge Brown's availability. It's not about whether he had an opportunity to pull the trigger on a deal; it's about whether or not he ever even put the scope on his rifle.

But Cronin can't force a trade to happen. If guys aren't available he can't trade for them.

Who was traded that would have been a needle mover for us? I've seen no evidence there was a better move available than just drafting Sharpe, Scoot, and signing Grant.

 

[PCmor7]

Not really a relevant question, since that's not Bones' claim. The claim is that Cronin didn't actually make any effort to gauge Brown's availability. It's not about whether he had an opportunity to pull the trigger on a deal; it's about whether or not he ever even put the scope on his rifle.

I'm trying to figure exactly how that would work. If there was any real opportunity to get Brown without bankrupting our roster and draft picks and to keep Dame in the process, you'd have to postulate Cronin was both incompetent and Machiavellian not to at least put his antenna out there.

I just have a very, very, very hard time thinking Cronin didn't even look into something that would have kept the organization's most popular player ever here and had the fanbase optimistic of contending this year because he was for some unknown reason determined to reset the franchise with no guarantees how that would work out.

 

[PCmor7]

But Cronin can't force a trade to happen. If guys aren't available he can't trade for them.

Who was traded that would have been a needle mover for us? I've seen no evidence there was a better move available than just drafting Sharpe, Scoot, and signing Grant.

What Bones is saying is that Cronin never even asked if Brown was available for a price, though. Now, I find that incredibly unlikely, but that's what he's saying, that Cronin basically pretended Brown didn't exist, ignored his potential to be acquired completely.

 

[Phatguysrule]

What Bones is saying is that Cronin never even asked if Brown was available for a price, though. Now, I find that incredibly unlikely, but that's what he's saying, that Cronin basically pretended Brown didn't exist, ignored his potential to be acquired completely.

Cronin made it very clear, very publicly, that he was looking for deals. Dame made that happen.

We all knew Portland was looking to deal.

There were no reports that the Blazers were turning people away or hanging up on people. Or being unreasonable in any way.

I don't blame Dame for being disappointed that nothing happened. I don't blame him for requesting a trade.

But I also don't blame Cronin for any of this. From my perspective he's been pretty logical so far.

 

[PCmor7]

Cronin made it very clear, very publicly, that he was looking for deals. Dame made that happen.

We all knew Portland was looking to deal.

There were no reports that the Blazers were turning people away or hanging up on people. Or being unreasonable in any way.

All I'm saying is what Bones is suggesting.

Again, to me that seems so highly unlikely that it'd take one of the biggest conspiracies in NBA history for it to be true.

You have to believe Cronin signed Lillard to the giant extension while not wanting him on the team, acquired two players in the offseason that Dame wanted with him on the team, re-signed one of those players to a contract that could be argued exceeded his value all while pulling off a performance that would make Bradley Cooper envious.

Regardless of what info Bones or Hoopjock got, you have to explain all of this, bearing in mind that Cronin didn't have to do any of it. The Blazers could have been in exactly the same situation they are now minus the acrimony. It pretty much requires Cronin to deliberately dislike Dame from the start and doing everything he could to hurt him. Cronin basically would have to be a psychopath. There are a lot more logical explanations for why the Blazers are where they are now that don't involve Cronin's life goal revolving around trying to ruin Damian Lillard's.

 

[Phatguysrule]

All I'm saying is what Bones is suggesting.

Again, to me that seems so highly unlikely that it'd take one of the biggest conspiracies in NBA history for it to be true.

You have to believe Cronin signed Lillard to the giant extension while not wanting him on the team, acquired two players in the offseason that Dame wanted with him on the team, re-signed one of those players to a contract that could be argued exceeded his value all while pulling off a performance that would make Bradley Cooper envious.

Regardless of what info Bones or Hoopjock got, you have to explain all of this, bearing in mind that Cronin didn't have to do any of it. The Blazers could have been in exactly the same situation they are now minus the acrimony. It pretty much requires Cronin to deliberately dislike Dame from the start and doing everything he could to hurt him. Cronin basically would have to be a psychopath. There are a lot more logical explanations for why the Blazers are where they are now that don't involve Cronin's life goal revolving around trying to ruin Damian Lillard's.

Agreed

 

[SharpesTriumph]

All I'm saying is what Bones is suggesting.

Again, to me that seems so highly unlikely that it'd take one of the biggest conspiracies in NBA history for it to be true.

You have to believe Cronin signed Lillard to the giant extension while not wanting him on the team, acquired two players in the offseason that Dame wanted with him on the team, re-signed one of those players to a contract that could be argued exceeded his value all while pulling off a performance that would make Bradley Cooper envious.

Regardless of what info Bones or Hoopjock got, you have to explain all of this, bearing in mind that Cronin didn't have to do any of it. The Blazers could have been in exactly the same situation they are now minus the acrimony. It pretty much requires Cronin to deliberately dislike Dame from the start and doing everything he could to hurt him. Cronin basically would have to be a psychopath. There are a lot more logical explanations for why the Blazers are where they are now that don't involve Cronin's life goal revolving around trying to ruin Damian Lillard's.

Very well said.

I suspect Cronin said general things like he would be aggressive and get player such as x to win now or go after player y. But when it came time for actual offers the other teams wanted more than Cronin expected, Cronin realized the #3 pick was worth way more than expected, and who knows what other restrictions ownership/vulcans/etc ultimate had.

Dame probably doesn't care at all about the expected value of first round picks relative to the salary cap and luxury tax, but Cronin and the assistant GM's have to pay very close attention to this especially with the new CBA that was implemented in the middle of these last 2 seasons.

Cronin really has no motive to screw Dame over, as if he wanted him to ultimately request a trade, which is basically the obvious end game of this summer, it would've made more sense to just say that 2 years ago and work to trade him then. Just seems like Cronin wanted to build a contender around Dame but was not able to.

Sometimes plans just don't work out and you have to make the best new plans with your situation. You shouldn't be held hostage by what you thought would happen previously; now that it is a different situation.

 

[wizenheimer]

I don't see why anybody in this story has to be lying

you can have intentions and plans; might be strong intentions....and circumstances change that alter intentions

Cronin could have told Dame he'd do everything he could to assemble a contender as long as it made sense for Portland. I'd imagine he said something just like that. What Dame could have heard Cronin say, after his ears had been conditioned by the decade of GM malpractice and snake oil of Olshey, was "we'll do anything, everything, to put a contender around you". Cronin could have inserted plenty of wiggle words between the lines, due diligence wiggle words, that allowed for multiple paths forward. And Dame simply didn't hear those wiggle words because of impatience after years of patience

Blazers had Josh Hart, the kind of veteran Dame likes; they had a 7th pick; and they had a 3rd + 23rd pick. And they had all that at the same time Cronin was talking repeatedly about building a team around Dame. They traded away the veteran, and they didn't trade any of the three picks for other veterans. That may have been the best path forward each time but I sure can see how Dame would view that as a betrayal, especially if Cronin was saying the same things to Dame in private he was saying publicly

still doesn't mean anybody is a liar

 

[Propagandist]

We've needed a GM who can make things happen for years. Lack of execution can always be excused one way or another. Hopefully next time is different.

Seriously, what in the goddamn hell is going on with our GMs? Let’s get a professional in there.

 

[blazerkor]

Very well said.

I suspect Cronin said general things like he would be aggressive and get player such as x to win now or go after player y. But when it came time for actual offers the other teams wanted more than Cronin expected, Cronin realized the #3 pick was worth way more than expected, and who knows what other restrictions ownership/vulcans/etc ultimate had.

Dame probably doesn't care at all about the expected value of first round picks relative to the salary cap and luxury tax, but Cronin and the assistant GM's have to pay very close attention to this especially with the new CBA that was implemented in the middle of these last 2 seasons.

Cronin really has no motive to screw Dame over, as if he wanted him to ultimately request a trade, which is basically the obvious end game of this summer, it would've made more sense to just say that 2 years ago and work to trade him then. Just seems like Cronin wanted to build a contender around Dame but was not able to.

Sometimes plans just don't work out and you have to make the best new plans with your situation. You shouldn't be held hostage by what you thought would happen previously; now that it is a different situation.

I don't see why anybody in this story has to be lying

you can have intentions and plans; might be strong intentions....and circumstances change that alter intentions

Cronin could have told Dame he'd do everything he could to assemble a contender as long as it made sense for Portland. I'd imagine he said something just like that. What Dame could have heard Cronin say, after his ears had been conditioned by the decade GM malpractice and snake oil of Olshey, was "we'll do anything, everything, to put a contender around you". Cronin could have inserted plenty of wiggle words between the lines, due diligence wiggle words, that allowed for multiple paths forward. And Dame simply didn't hear those wiggle words because of impatience after years of patience

Blazers had Josh Hart, the kind of veteran Dame likes; they had a 7th pick; and they had a 3rd + 23rd pick. And they had all that at the same time Cronin was talking repeatedly about building a team around Dame. They traded away the veteran, and they didn't trade any of the three picks for other veterans. That may have been the best path forward each time but I sure can see how Dame would view that as a betrayal, especially if Cronin was saying the same things to Dame in private he was saying publicly

still doesn't mean anybody is a liar

Very well said by both of you. I realize we all want the best deal possible and that might take a lot more patience but I cannot wait for the day we can stop talking about this shit and start talking about the young team that we'll have playing unencumbered by these unfortunate complications.

 

[blazerkor]

Seriously, what in the goddamn hell is going on with our GMs? Let’s get a professional in there.

It's our ownership or lack thereof since technically we just have an executor of an estate overseeing our team. Someday we'll get new ownership that will really want to put a stamp on our team and that's when we'll be able to expect ambitious choices and bold action.

 

[Samuel]

All I'm saying is what Bones is suggesting.

Again, to me that seems so highly unlikely that it'd take one of the biggest conspiracies in NBA history for it to be true.

You have to believe Cronin signed Lillard to the giant extension while not wanting him on the team, acquired two players in the offseason that Dame wanted with him on the team, re-signed one of those players to a contract that could be argued exceeded his value all while pulling off a performance that would make Bradley Cooper envious.

Regardless of what info Bones or Hoopjock got, you have to explain all of this, bearing in mind that Cronin didn't have to do any of it. The Blazers could have been in exactly the same situation they are now minus the acrimony. It pretty much requires Cronin to deliberately dislike Dame from the start and doing everything he could to hurt him. Cronin basically would have to be a psychopath. There are a lot more logical explanations for why the Blazers are where they are now that don't involve Cronin's life goal revolving around trying to ruin Damian Lillard's.

Well put!

 

[BonesJones]

All I'm saying is what Bones is suggesting.

Again, to me that seems so highly unlikely that it'd take one of the biggest conspiracies in NBA history for it to be true.

You have to believe Cronin signed Lillard to the giant extension while not wanting him on the team, acquired two players in the offseason that Dame wanted with him on the team, re-signed one of those players to a contract that could be argued exceeded his value all while pulling off a performance that would make Bradley Cooper envious.

Regardless of what info Bones or Hoopjock got, you have to explain all of this, bearing in mind that Cronin didn't have to do any of it. The Blazers could have been in exactly the same situation they are now minus the acrimony. It pretty much requires Cronin to deliberately dislike Dame from the start and doing everything he could to hurt him. Cronin basically would have to be a psychopath. There are a lot more logical explanations for why the Blazers are where they are now that don't involve Cronin's life goal revolving around trying to ruin Damian Lillard's.

You're asking us to explain things we never said bro. "Bones is suggesting" ... "You have to believe" ... You're putting words in my mouth that were never said.

From what Eric's said, in the past year Cronin grew tired of the pressure Dame was putting on him, and grew more enamored with the thought of an Anfernee Simons and Shaedon Sharpe backcourt of the future. He was talking about this intel to me privately last season and we didn't believe it and never reported it. Turns out it was right, and he had an easy out that made Jody happy because they won't be in the tax for the foreseeable future.

 

[BonesJones]

I'm still trying to figure out why Bones isn't calling Dame a liar, because he promised to stay with the Blazers and try to bring a championship to Portland.

How is that different than Cronin seeing the cards he's dealt and concluding the move most likely to win a title is drafting the oft-considered transcendent talent instead of trading him and so much more to get OG Anunoby?

Dame signing the contract was based on certain pretenses that changed in the past year. Dame even said they no longer wanted the same thing. His belief that they wanted to build a winner around him is why he signed that contract. That changed and Dame has basically said as much.

As far as Cronin goes:
- He talked about being super aggressive in building around Dame and needing more vets, but decided to stop taking calls for the 3rd pick days before the draft despite the common sense that his best offers would come when Portland's on the clock at 3 and had Scoot Henderson available.
- He didn't move any other picks, or get future 1sts back
- He said on draft night that they had to do well in free agency, then after he did absolutely nothing, admitted that his goal was never to be super active in free agency because of the market.

This it the tip of the iceberg as far as what we've heard, but I figured I'd give you something that is public and provable. Eric was hearing two weeks before the draft about how Portland didn't want to shop the pick and we even had a stream about it where we warned people about it. You can believe what you want, but try to avoid turning a misunderstanding between our points of view into something where you're putting words in our mouths.

 

[BonesJones]

Very well said by both of you. I realize we all want the best deal possible and that might take a lot more patience but I cannot wait for the day we can stop talking about this shit and start talking about the young team that we'll have playing unencumbered by these unfortunate complications.

I can't wait either, it's exhausting.