Miami Heat Dame Trade Ideas and Rumors (1 Viewer)

[BonesJones]

Brown isnt as good as his reputation. I wouldn't have given up #3 for him

To build a winner around Dame a GM was always going to have to take a risk. Would've rather done that than play it safe until the wheels fall off.

 

[Mediocre Man]

To build a winner around Dame a GM was always going to have to take a risk. Would've rather done that than play it safe until the wheels fall off.

I wonder if Joe and Mike Schmitz share so many others philosophy that you can’t win with your best player being a shoot first ball dominant pg? Once Olshey refused to move CJ and picks for a wing this team was pretty much sunk.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

TLDR: If Cronin was being aggressive, why weren't there any Woj reports about it?

The thing that sticks out to me about Brown is that even if Cronin did inquire about him and was quoted a ridiculous asking price, someone who's being "super aggressive about building around Dame" wouldn't just hang up the phone, throw up his hands, and be like "welp, that's not happening!" He would use every tool at his disposal to attempt to negotiate a reasonable deal. And I think we can reasonably conclude that didn't happen. Why? Because we know that Cronin is no stranger to using Woj as his mouthpiece to attempt to negotiate through the media, and there were never any Woj pieces about Boston being unreasonable in their demands for Brown, nothing about the Blazers showing interest in acquiring him, nothing more than "Portland will be active in the trade market over the next few weeks." I have difficulty believing that someone who has shown no aversion to using Woj to promote his agenda would not employ that tool in his "super aggressive" building campaign.

 

[PCmor7]

You're asking us to explain things we never said bro. "Bones is suggesting" ... "You have to believe" ... You're putting words in my mouth that were never said.

From what Eric's said, in the past year Cronin grew tired of the pressure Dame was putting on him, and grew more enamored with the thought of an Anfernee Simons and Shaedon Sharpe backcourt of the future. He was talking about this intel to me privately last season and we didn't believe it and never reported it. Turns out it was right, and he had an easy out that made Jody happy because they won't be in the tax for the foreseeable future.

You need to learn to understand context, comparison and deduction.

Saying "you have to believe" doesn't mean you said it. It means that for what you are saying to be right A, B, C and D would have had to have happened. They didn't, so your idea doesn't pass the smell test.

Good grief.

 

[PCmor7]

But, you know what, Torey, thanks for giving me another example of why your "Cronin lied" storyline doesn't hold up.

You just said Dame was the one pressuring him, but Jody wanted something else.

OK, that implies Cronin was trying to do what Dame wanted even over what Jody wanted, and Jody wanted to cut costs, which could easily have been done by not extending Dame or re-signing Grant.

Which is it? You're here claiming to have a smoking gun but the only gun you have is the one you used to shoot your own argument in the foot. It lacks plausibility and it contradicts itself all over the place. You guys are so eager to be outraged experts that you can't see no matter what intel you got it Makes. No. Sense.

 

[PCmor7]

Dame signing the contract was based on certain pretenses that changed in the past year. Dame even said they no longer wanted the same thing. His belief that they wanted to build a winner around him is why he signed that contract. That changed and Dame has basically said as much.

As far as Cronin goes:
- He talked about being super aggressive in building around Dame and needing more vets, but decided to stop taking calls for the 3rd pick days before the draft despite the common sense that his best offers would come when Portland's on the clock at 3 and had Scoot Henderson available.
- He didn't move any other picks, or get future 1sts back
- He said on draft night that they had to do well in free agency, then after he did absolutely nothing, admitted that his goal was never to be super active in free agency because of the market.

This it the tip of the iceberg as far as what we've heard, but I figured I'd give you something that is public and provable. Eric was hearing two weeks before the draft about how Portland didn't want to shop the pick and we even had a stream about it where we warned people about it. You can believe what you want, but try to avoid turning a misunderstanding between our points of view into something where you're putting words in our mouths.

I see. So Dame changing his tune because of ... things ... is OK, but Cronin not moving fast enough for Dame's like or reacting to the market in a way that's prudent amounts to lying.

Your bias is showing.

I've said this before: If Cronin had traded the third pick for what has been reported to be available you'd have been all over him the way you are for this, because it wouldn't be aggressive, it would be reckless. If Dame only would be placated by trading the third pick for any veteran, you should have Dame on blast for being unreasonable.

You should have said the tip of the ice cube, not the iceberg. You lack perspective.

 

[Hoopguru]

For me at this point Im interested in seeing how Joe builds this team around Scoot & Shae, and if he is able to quickly get the right pieces to make them contenders in 2-3 years. These two will not give it 10 years for that to happen.

 

[Mediocre Man]

For me at this point Im interested in seeing how Joe build this team around Scoot & Shae, and if he is able to quickly get the right pieces to make them contenders in 2-3 years. These two will not give it 10 years for that to happen.

Great post.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

You're asking us to explain things we never said bro. "Bones is suggesting" ... "You have to believe" ... You're putting words in my mouth that were never said.

From what Eric's said, in the past year Cronin grew tired of the pressure Dame was putting on him, and grew more enamored with the thought of an Anfernee Simons and Shaedon Sharpe backcourt of the future. He was talking about this intel to me privately last season and we didn't believe it and never reported it. Turns out it was right, and he had an easy out that made Jody happy because they won't be in the tax for the foreseeable future.

I don't see anything wrong with Cronin believing that - Dame is 33 years old on a supermax and the Blazers have no path to contend soon. Seems like the prudent GM action to seriously consider a younger direction.

Only players older than Dame to lead teams to titles were LeBron/MJ/LBJ/Kareem.

 

[riverman]

I don't see anything wrong with Cronin believing that - Dame is 33 years old on a supermax and the Blazers have no path to contend soon. Seems like the prudent GM action to seriously consider a younger direction.

Only players older than Dame to lead teams to titles were LeBron/MJ/LBJ/Kareem.

You forgot Dirk and Duncan

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Dame signing the contract was based on certain pretenses that changed in the past year. Dame even said they no longer wanted the same thing. His belief that they wanted to build a winner around him is why he signed that contract. That changed and Dame has basically said as much.

As far as Cronin goes:
- He talked about being super aggressive in building around Dame and needing more vets, but decided to stop taking calls for the 3rd pick days before the draft despite the common sense that his best offers would come when Portland's on the clock at 3 and had Scoot Henderson available.
- He didn't move any other picks, or get future 1sts back
- He said on draft night that they had to do well in free agency, then after he did absolutely nothing, admitted that his goal was never to be super active in free agency because of the market.

This it the tip of the iceberg as far as what we've heard, but I figured I'd give you something that is public and provable. Eric was hearing two weeks before the draft about how Portland didn't want to shop the pick and we even had a stream about it where we warned people about it. You can believe what you want, but try to avoid turning a misunderstanding between our points of view into something where you're putting words in our mouths.

None of those actions or speculation make Cronin a liar.

Cronin and Schmits may have gauged the market for the pick weeks before the draft, and realized there were not any discussions approaching their value of using it.

Its actually extremely rare to trade away a top3 pick for a veteran, tons of risk for the team trading it away and the team acquiring it. Kevin Love for Wiggins is about the only recent one I can think of. Dame isn't LBJ and the Blazers aren't close to contenders like those Cavs were.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

You forgot Dirk and Duncan

Duncan wasn't MVP - it was Kawhi and that was a great deep Spurs team with many different leaders. Duncan often played much fewer minutes for that last title. Duncan was a great starter for that final ring, but he didn't lead them to a title. All of Duncans other 4 rings where yes he was the leader were at a younger age than Dame.

Dirk wasn't older than Dame. Dame would have to win the title this season which obviously isn't happening. Same for Steph last ring.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

To build a winner around Dame a GM was always going to have to take a risk. Would've rather done that than play it safe until the wheels fall off.

The time for that opportunity was the decade Dame was in his 20's. When Dame is 33 and the team is devoid of win now assets..... its too late buddy.

 

[riverman]

Duncan wasn't MVP - it was Kawhi and that was a great deep Spurs team with many different leaders. Duncan often played much fewer minutes for that last title. Duncan was a great starter for that final ring, but he didn't lead them to a title. All of Duncans other 4 rings where yes he was the leader were at a younger age than Dame.

Dirk wasn't older than Dame. Dame would have to win the title this season which obviously isn't happening. Same for Steph last ring.

you didn't stipulate "MVP" and Duncan and Dirk did win ...you can claim these guys didn't lead their teams to a title but both were team captains so I disagree. Dirk won a title at an older age than Dame because well.....Dame hasn't won a title. I don't understand your spin on that one either but it's all good.

 

[andalusian]

You forgot Dirk and Duncan

Dirk was 32 the start of the year he won the championship.

Timmy was 31 the start of the last year they won a championship and he was the best player in SAS. When they won in 2014 it was because the GM went younger and built a younger team around him.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

you didn't stipulate "MVP" and Duncan and Dirk did win ...you can claim these guys didn't lead their teams to a title but both were team captains so I disagree. Dirk won a title at an older age than Dame because well.....Dame hasn't won a title. I don't understand your spin on that one either but it's all good.

I'm not saying only MVP's - I said "players older than Dame to lead teams to titles"

Dirk was not older than Dame when he won a title.

My comment was to show how rare it was to have an NBA team built around a star player at Dame's age or older and have them go on to win a title. Only 4 of the all time greats have done it, all MVP level TALL players. 33 is older than the vast majority of NBA champions, and the Blazers had no felllow stars on the roster. Dirk, Duncan, and Curry had allstars or hall of famers up and down those rosters. It was a dumb strategy to try and build a contender around Dame a few months ago, its just way too late. When Dame was in his 20's there was a chance to do it, but that ship has sailed.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Dirk was 32 when he won a ring and yes he seemed old at the time. Dame is 33

 

[riverman]

Dirk was 32 when he won a ring and yes he seemed old at the time. Dame is 33

If I'm not mistaken Dirk entered the NBA much younger than Dame...Dame was late to the draft and stayed in college longer than most guys who declare for the draft ...I'll have to check that but I think that's true of a lot of guys....comparing Kobe or Melo or Lebron coming into the league as teenagers ..sometimes it's not the years but the miles with these guys

 

[BonesJones]

You need to learn to understand context, comparison and deduction.

Saying "you have to believe" doesn't mean you said it. It means that for what you are saying to be right A, B, C and D would have had to have happened. They didn't, so your idea doesn't pass the smell test.

Good grief.

Except the way you laid it out isn't how it had to have happened at all, and you constantly say things like "Bones thinks this" and "Bones is saying that" when it's not true. All you do is put words in my mouth and thoughts in my head. It's weird.

 

[BonesJones]

I see. So Dame changing his tune because of ... things ... is OK, but Cronin not moving fast enough for Dame's like or reacting to the market in a way that's prudent amounts to lying.

Your bias is showing.

I've said this before: If Cronin had traded the third pick for what has been reported to be available you'd have been all over him the way you are for this, because it wouldn't be aggressive, it would be reckless. If Dame only would be placated by trading the third pick for any veteran, you should have Dame on blast for being unreasonable.

You should have said the tip of the ice cube, not the iceberg. You lack perspective.

Cronin not moving fast enough for Dame'a liking? Most meaningful free agents signed day one. He couldnt have "moved any slower". Hes had two years to make progress and the only meaningful win-now upgrade he's made is a guy Dame recruited. You think I'm biased for Dame, I think your biased for Cronin.

How can a dude tout winning free agent battles, say they need to do well in free agency, don't do anything, then say that was never really the plan? That's a direct contradiction.

Amd there you go again claiming you know what I think, say, or do.

 

[BonesJones]

The time for that opportunity was the decade Dame was in his 20's. When Dame is 33 and the team is devoid of win now assets..... its too late buddy.

Then Cronin should've said as much when he was preaching transparency.

I've seen Dame drag pretty mediocre supporting casts to playoff wins. Even if it was likely to fall short, I wanted to take a swing because even a rebuild is likely to fall short. It's not easy.

 

[BonesJones]

I don't see anything wrong with Cronin believing that - Dame is 33 years old on a supermax and the Blazers have no path to contend soon. Seems like the prudent GM action to seriously consider a younger direction.

Only players older than Dame to lead teams to titles were LeBron/MJ/LBJ/Kareem.

Steph, Dirk, Duncan.

 

[BonesJones]

None of those actions or speculation make Cronin a liar.

Cronin and Schmits may have gauged the market for the pick weeks before the draft, and realized there were not any discussions approaching their value of using it.

Its actually extremely rare to trade away a top3 pick for a veteran, tons of risk for the team trading it away and the team acquiring it. Kevin Love for Wiggins is about the only recent one I can think of. Dame isn't LBJ and the Blazers aren't close to contenders like those Cavs were.

Giving up trading a pick days to weeks before the draft without seriously taking calls on draft night when they were likely going to get their best offers says to me there weren't serious about being aggressive in building around Dame this off-season. I highly doubt teams just weren't interested in Scoot Henderson... Reporting was to the contrary.

 

[BIG Q]

Cronin not moving fast enough for Dame'a liking? Most meaningful free agents signed day one. He couldnt have "moved any slower". Hes had two years to make progress and the only meaningful win-now upgrade he's made is a guy Dame recruited. You think I'm biased for Dame, I think your biased for Cronin.

How can a dude tout winning free agent battles, say they need to do well in free agency, don't do anything, then say that was never really the plan? That's a direct contradiction.

Amd there you go again claiming you know what I think, say, or do.

Portland never wins free agent battles. They have the draft or trades.

 

[BIG Q]

Giving up trading a pick days to weeks before the draft without seriously taking calls on draft night when they were likely going to get their best offers says to me there weren't serious about being aggressive in building around Dame this off-season. I highly doubt teams just weren't interested in Scoot Henderson... Reporting was to the contrary.

How about the idea Cronin told interested GM's to have their best offer in 48 hours prior to the draft so he and the Vulcans could formulate their draft plan? I can see that as a strong possibility. I often put a timeline on vendors submitting bids to me.

 

[julius]

I've mentioned this before, when was the last time the #3 pick was traded for a star or a superstar?

 

[Hoopguru]

Joe said he failed Dame. He wasn't making that shit up.
He needs to surround Scoot and Shae with balanced deep team without going into another 2-3 tank mode. In fact tank mode should be done, imo.

 

[BonesJones]

Portland never wins free agent battles. They have the draft or trades.

I laughed when he said that.

 

[BonesJones]

I've mentioned this before, when was the last time the #3 pick was traded for a star or a superstar?

Most teams that have the 3rd pick don't have a player as good as Dame. It was a unique position to be in.

 

[Phatguysrule]

None of those actions or speculation make Cronin a liar.

Cronin and Schmits may have gauged the market for the pick weeks before the draft, and realized there were not any discussions approaching their value of using it.

Its actually extremely rare to trade away a top3 pick for a veteran, tons of risk for the team trading it away and the team acquiring it. Kevin Love for Wiggins is about the only recent one I can think of. Dame isn't LBJ and the Blazers aren't close to contenders like those Cavs were.

Yeah, trading #3 for what was rumored to be available would be a historically bad move.