Miami Heat Dame Trade Ideas and Rumors (1 Viewer)

[SlyPokerCat]

same trade:

View attachment 56925

odds are it will be a non-lottery pick in 2025. But there's still a chance it will be the unprotected 2026 pick. And the value of both picks will drop dramatically if Dame goes to the Heat; so OKC has no incentive in making that more likely to happen

That doesn't mean they have the 2026 pick yet. Could they? Yes, but it is unlikely.

If OKC gets a 2nd round pick to take 26 unprotected, which is known as a stronger draft, it isn't some crazy thought.

Also, what I think Bones was saying is if another team has a likely better 2025 or 2026 pick, OKC could be happy taking that and releasing the 25 pick back to Miami so they give us 24, 26, 28, 30. Do I agree with it? Maybe. But it isn't impossible.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Adjusting

I think our absolute best case scenario is

Filler from third team (maybe Simmons)
Jovic
Jaquez
2024 pick (OKC takes 2026)
2025 pick swap
2027 pick swap
2028 pick
2029 pick swap
2030 pick
Future pick from third team
Future pick from Caleb Martin (maybe 4th team)
2026 2nd rounder
2029 2nd rounder
2030 2nd rounder

Let's be honest.. you're gutting Miami's future. If they don't win a title in the next couple years they're completely fucked.

Yeah gutting their future and then later owning their unproteced picks out until 2030 is what could make this super valuable!

I think all of that would actually be an overpay for Dame. They can keep Martin or something if they give all the rest up. I love the idea of taking all of Miami's draft equity as that starts to makes those distant picks and swaps have crazy good high lottery upside.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yeah gutting their future and then later owning their unproteced picks out until 2030 is what could make this super valuable!

I think all of that would actually be an overpay for Dame. They can keep Martin or something if they give all the rest up. I love the idea of taking all of Miami's draft equity as that starts to makes those distant picks and swaps have crazy good high lottery upside.

Yeah, and then try to steal away any undrafted guys that they start sniffing around. Just cock block them in any way possible.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Yup. I suspect Joe isn't even having the conversation until Jaquez is free to be traded. I think Riley pulled that shit to try to keep Jaquez.

Jaquez could be wanted by both teams in the deal to match salaries. Dame had the trade restriction until July 10th or something anyways - it would be crazy for Miami to hold off signing him and border on downright insulting. I mean if a deal had been reached in principle I guess they would hold off signing Jazquez and wait to finalize the Dame deal, but Jaquez was eligible to be signed on the 1st before Dame had even demanded a trade.

 

[HansenYang]

The Blazers Uprise guys actually had an interesting idea on Miami picks I never heard before. It was their video of the Cronin press conference a few days ago.

1 Basically it involved getting a 2025 1st from a 3rd team; lets say the 2025 Phoenix pick Brooklyn has. Get that for Herro or something.

2 Then tell OKC they can have the better of that 2025 Phoenix pick or the 2025 Miami pick - but send the worst of the picks back to Miami.

3 Then Miami has 7 future picks in every draft so they don't have Stephen restrictions. They could give the Blazers their 2024 2026 2028 2030 picks all unprotected.

4 They could also give swaps in 2027 (conditional) and 2029. A 2025 swap probably isn't worth doing as their picks is already the lesser of two.

Pretty creative idea. Hoopsjock didn't think Cronin was creative enough to do this. Bones point was Cronin doesn't have to be; just demand Miami figure out that solution such as this and get the Blazers 5 great picks. Then its Pat Riley who needs to be creative.

I guess the 5th pick would be from Caleb Martin going to a 3rd team or something.

Two points.

1) OKC doesn't have to be involved. If Miami has the PHX '25 pick, then Miami can trade the '24, '28, & '30 picks unconditionally. The '26 pick they can also trade with a condition (if the Miami '25 pick conveys to OKC, then Portland gets '26. If it does not, then Portland gets the better of PHX or Miami '25).
2) I don't agree with the mindset that 'Miami needs to figure this out'. Taking the passive approach in this situation will get Portland a sub-par result. If Cronin takes a proactive approach, I think the return for Dame could be significantly better.

 

[Natebishop3]

Jaquez could be wanted by both teams in the deal to match salaries. Dame had the trade restriction until July 10th or something anyways - it would be crazy for Miami to hold off signing him and border on downright insulting. I mean if a deal had been reached in principle I guess they would hold off signing Jazquez and wait to finalize the Dame deal, but Jaquez was eligible to be signed on the 1st before Dame had even demanded a trade.

I'm not super excited about Jaquez or Jovic, but if it has to be Miami, I want to strip everything that's not nailed down from that team.

 

[BBert]

Scoot is ready to win now.
He's making passes that teammates need to convert to points now, not in 3 seasons.
If the Blazers get a top-half-of-NBA small forward, why tank?

Scoot might make Grant a borderline all star.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Yeah, and then try to steal away any undrafted guys that they start sniffing around. Just cock block them in any way possible.

The new CBA has stuff about luxury tax teams can't sign buyout guys and teams under the cap or under the tax get priority on picking them up. Would be great if the Blazers could steal some of their targets in a future season.

I also maintain that owning just the single 2030 unprotected pick also kind of gives the Blazers a path to possibly get Dame back for only a pick many years from now. Maybe its even on his next contract far less than the $60 million. I'm hopeful this trade eventually gets resolved amicable on both sides when its finalized. When Dame is in his late 30's and Sharp/Scoot are ready to win in the playoffs it might be fun to bring Dame back in a Jason Kidd Dallas role.

 

[Natebishop3]

The new CBA has stuff about luxury tax teams can't sign buyout guys and teams under the cap or under the tax get priority on picking them up. Would be great if the Blazers could steal some of their targets in a future season.

I also maintain that owning just the single 2030 unprotected pick also kind of gives the Blazers a path to possibly get Dame back for only a pick many years from now. Maybe its even on his next contract far less than the $60 million. I'm hopeful this trade eventually gets resolved amicable on both sides when its finalized. When Dame is in his late 30's and Sharp/Scoot are ready to win in the playoffs it might be fun to bring Dame back in a Jason Kidd Dallas role.

It really depends on how much Dame dislikes/distrusts Joe Cronin and Jody.

But someone I was listening to yesterday brought up a good point. I think maybe it was Danny Marang and Dusty. They said that Joe is clearly building for long term, and he wouldn't be doing that if he thought that Jody was going to sell the team anytime soon. So the rebuild would tend to signal that the ownership won't be changing in the foreseeable future.

 

[Chris Craig]

The new CBA has stuff about luxury tax teams can't sign buyout guys and teams under the cap or under the tax get priority on picking them up. Would be great if the Blazers could steal some of their targets in a future season.

I also maintain that owning just the single 2030 unprotected pick also kind of gives the Blazers a path to possibly get Dame back for only a pick many years from now. Maybe its even on his next contract far less than the $60 million. I'm hopeful this trade eventually gets resolved amicable on both sides when its finalized. When Dame is in his late 30's and Sharp/Scoot are ready to win in the playoffs it might be fun to bring Dame back in a Jason Kidd Dallas role.

If he comes back in 2030 it will be for the vet min.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Two points.

1) OKC doesn't have to be involved. If Miami has the PHX '25 pick, then Miami can trade the '24, '28, & '30 picks unconditionally. The '26 pick they can also trade with a condition (if the Miami '25 pick conveys to OKC, then Portland gets '26. If it does not, then Portland gets the better of PHX or Miami '25).
2) I don't agree with the mindset that 'Miami needs to figure this out'. Taking the passive approach in this situation will get Portland a sub-par result. If Cronin takes a proactive approach, I think the return for Dame could be significantly better.

Ahh great points. Yeah Miami just needs to get a single pick that aligns with their debt to OKC. Then they are free to trade 4 first rounders, or a net of sending out 3 more.

There might be a way for us to involve Chicago and then use our pick to eliminate Stephen restrictions eventually getting us more picks in total.

Having other teams that can resolve this besides OKC is great so we aren't relying on them holding out for some costly demand.

 

[Chris Craig]

It really depends on how much Dame dislikes/distrusts Joe Cronin and Jody.

But someone I was listening to yesterday brought up a good point. I think maybe it was Danny Marang and Dusty. They said that Joe is clearly building for long term, and he wouldn't be doing that if he thought that Jody was going to sell the team anytime soon. So the rebuild would tend to signal that the ownership won't be changing in the foreseeable future.

Marang doesn't know shit. That's not a substantive point at all. That the Blazers are rebuilding doesn't mean they won't be for sale. Rebuilding is actually the perfect storm for selling the team. Keeping the team out of the luxury while heading into a new TV deal in a year, only helps to make that sell more lucrative. To boot with two potential future stars on the roster for cheap.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

It really depends on how much Dame dislikes/distrusts Joe Cronin and Jody.

But someone I was listening to yesterday brought up a good point. I think maybe it was Danny Marang and Dusty. They said that Joe is clearly building for long term, and he wouldn't be doing that if he thought that Jody was going to sell the team anytime soon. So the rebuild would tend to signal that the ownership won't be changing in the foreseeable future.

In a number of years is one or both of Cronin/Jody gone? A lot can change in a few years.

Maybe thats not selling part is true, or maybe not - I'm not sure I buy that. If the Blazers had Dame, Grant, and traded the pick for Jaylen Brown getting a new massive contract the team would have huge contracts and older players that wouldn't lend itself to a high selling price either. Even if selling the team new owners probably like high upside young players, picks, and not too many overpaid long contracts.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

If he comes back in 2030 it will be for the vet min.

I didn't mean in 2030 - I meant in exchange for the 2030 pick. Look at how often we discuss doing a trade with Chicago for our pick and they don't own a single lottery pick of ours - if we own Miami's shot at the #1 overall pick it could freak them out.

Heck it might only be in two years if Miami falls apart - or it might be in 2027 with a sign and trade when Dame is 37 and getting a new cheaper contract.

Yeah right now it seems like were setting up to depart forever - but in a few years those sentiments can change quickly, especially if this gets resolved with no hard feelings.

I'm not saying its something we should plan on or use assets towards; just something to leave that door open into maybe being a small chance of it happing one day. It could be a nice little bonus.

 

[wizenheimer]

That doesn't mean they have the 2026 pick yet. Could they? Yes, but it is unlikely.

If OKC gets a 2nd round pick to take 26 unprotected, which is known as a stronger draft, it isn't some crazy thought.

Also, what I think Bones was saying is if another team has a likely better 2025 or 2026 pick, OKC could be happy taking that and releasing the 25 pick back to Miami so they give us 24, 26, 28, 30. Do I agree with it? Maybe. But it isn't impossible.

I know what bones is saying. I'm not buying it though

in 2026, Dame will be 36 & Butler will be 37. OKC might be willing to send the 2025 pick back to Miami if they get an additional 2nd round pick, but I don't believe they will let go of that 2026 unprotected pick very easily

besides that, OKC already has 8 first round picks in 2024 & 2025, plus 4 second round picks. I don't see any reason why they'd want a 9th first round pick in 2024-2025, leaving them only 2 in 2026

 

[HansenYang]

Ahh great points. Yeah Miami just needs to get a single pick that aligns with their debt to OKC. Then they are free to trade 4 first rounders, or a net of sending out 3 more.

There might be a way for us to involve Chicago and then use our pick to eliminate Stephen restrictions eventually getting us more picks in total.

Having other teams that can resolve this besides OKC is great so we aren't relying on them holding out for some costly demand.

With rumors of Utah being interested in Herro -> Does anyone think they would give up John Collins + the least favorable pick between Cleveland, Minnesota, and Utah in '25?

If so, that could turn the Miami trade into a home run...
With & without Ben Simmons

 

[Phatguysrule]

If Dame had given us a list of several teams, I would have 100% rooted for him to succeed wherever he ended up. Now? I hope the Heat crash and burn if he's traded there. I hope they don't make the playoffs. I hope Riley retires and they fall into squalor.

Well yeah. We want them to crash amd burn so the picks we get from them are as high as possible.

 

[Natebishop3]

With rumors of Utah being interested in Herro -> Does anyone think they would give up John Collins + the least favorable pick between Cleveland, Minnesota, and Utah in '25?

If so, that could turn the Miami trade into a home run...

View attachment 56928

Collins probably can't be traded until like December or January at this point.

 

[HansenYang]

Collins probably can't be traded until like December or January at this point.

Incorrect.
Generally, players salaries can't be aggregated with others to take back more salary. In this case, Collins is being traded 1 v 1 - so it would be legal.

I also think Utah took Collins into cap space - so the aggregation rule would not apply.

 

[Natebishop3]

Incorrect.
Generally, players salaries can't be aggregated with others to take back more salary. In this case, Collins is being traded 1 v 1 - so it would be legal.

I also think Utah took Collins into cap space - so the aggregation rule would not apply.

That's usually right after the trade is made. When was it completed and how long do they have to move him?

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I know what bones is saying. I'm not buying it though

in 2026, Dame will be 36 & Butler will be 37. OKC might be willing to send the 2025 pick back to Miami if they get an additional 2nd round pick, but I don't believe they will let go of that 2026 unprotected pick very easily

besides that, OKC already has 8 first round picks in 2024 & 2025, plus 4 second round picks. I don't see any reason why they'd want a 9th first round pick in 2024-2025, leaving them only 2 in 2026

Then call Chicago and get a lesser pick sent to Miami. OKC participation isn't required.

 

[Driew]

jovic and Jaquez both not playing today....maybe Pat is finally conceding to include both of them in a Dame trade?

 

[SlyPokerCat]

I know what bones is saying. I'm not buying it though

in 2026, Dame will be 36 & Butler will be 37. OKC might be willing to send the 2025 pick back to Miami if they get an additional 2nd round pick, but I don't believe they will let go of that 2026 unprotected pick very easily

besides that, OKC already has 8 first round picks in 2024 & 2025, plus 4 second round picks. I don't see any reason why they'd want a 9th first round pick in 2024-2025, leaving them only 2 in 2026

They don't have the 2026 pick as is. I'm not arguing that what Bones said is right or wrong, it COULD be possible if OKC values something more in 25, or they think a pick has a higher probability of being higher than what they will get in 25 as it will likely be between 25-30 from Miami.

Getting OKC to back off on their protections is unlikely to be a hinderance, with a variety of ways of trying to entice them.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

With rumors of Utah being interested in Herro -> Does anyone think they would give up John Collins + the least favorable pick between Cleveland, Minnesota, and Utah in '25?

If so, that could turn the Miami trade into a home run...
With & without Ben Simmons
View attachment 56928
View attachment 56929

Very good ideas. Yeah Utah or some of these teams with multiple picks are great trading partners. Brooklyn has a few years like that too. We can put our pick in with swaps/conditions or something, or put it in completely with Chicago's help. Those teams could trade the lesser of a few picks to Miami, and even have Miami lottery pick go back in a swap or something, and then lift Steipen restrictions. No OKC cooperation is needed. Miami unlocks 4 first round picks.

That threat also could push OKC to just simply cooperate and allow a deal where they get a little bit of value. OKC has shown they are very willing to do many moves for a small bit of draft equity. They didn't build this treasure trove of picks at once.

 

[HansenYang]

That's usually right after the trade is made. When was it completed and how long do they have to move him?

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q86

Also, if a team used an exception to acquire a player (which means it acquired the player by any means other than using cap room), it cannot include that player in an aggregated trade for two months.6

then in the footnote #6

It is commonly misreported that a team cannot aggregate a player (usually worded as trading the player with other players) for two months if the team is over the cap, or that a team that was under the cap when it made the initial trade cannot aggregate the player in a subsequent trade if it went over the cap in the meantime. Neither of these is true. All that matters is whether the player was acquired with an exception or with cap room.

I think Utah used cap room to acquire Collins - so the restrictions would not apply.
But that is immaterial - because a Herro/Collins trade can be made without aggregating his salary (which is the only possible trade restriction).

***EDIT***
This shows that there is a trade restriction in place:
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/utah-jazz/john-collins-23614/

 

[SharpesTriumph]

That's usually right after the trade is made. When was it completed and how long do they have to move him?

Wrong - the December or January thing is for when free agents are signed. Players can't be traded if aggregated for x days (60 or something in season less in offseason) but that doesn't apply at all in this instance.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I know what bones is saying. I'm not buying it though

in 2026, Dame will be 36 & Butler will be 37. OKC might be willing to send the 2025 pick back to Miami if they get an additional 2nd round pick, but I don't believe they will let go of that 2026 unprotected pick very easily

besides that, OKC already has 8 first round picks in 2024 & 2025, plus 4 second round picks. I don't see any reason why they'd want a 9th first round pick in 2024-2025, leaving them only 2 in 2026

Then send Miami 2030 pick unprotected to OKC. Thats way after Dame is retired. They probably want more distant picks since they have so many so soon. Portland gets 2024 2026 2028; then 2-3 more picks from Herro/Martin. If thats too much value to give OKC then gets something back from them.

This is the type of work GM's need to do to negotiate. I can't run through every possible way Miami can have OKC unlock a pick. There are dozens of ways and some of them would be in OKC interest. Finding a deal for all sides is the very basic aspect of the GM job. If OKC is going to pull a Masai and be ridiculous go to other teams. OKC cooperation is not required.

If Miami is being ridiculous get Dame offers from other teams. Miami cooperation is not required.

If all the offers suck then tell Dame he has to wait or add more teams to his list. Then let him sit.

 

[Natebishop3]

Thanks for the explanations. I know that players have been turned around and flipped but I wasn't sure if there was some kind of time limit on that.

I'm not sure if Collins really fits though, unless we move Grant.

 

[Samuel]

It’s not going to be great

Great? I think most of us are simply expecting 'edible' at this point. Lower your standards, my man.

 

[Samuel]

This is what's on offer. Like what even is this nonsense.