Miami Heat Dame Trade Ideas and Rumors

[B-Roy]

Definitely. So if they're calling around the time of the selection, why wouldn't Portland answer to see if they lowered the package?

You keep talking about things as if you're certain they happened or not. I understand your confidence in your "sources", but I find it hard to believe that even if your sources are legit, that you aren't being fed biased information or information framed to make the FO look bad.

I'm not trying to change your mind here, just disagreeing with the premise of a lot of your arguments.

 

[Mediocre Man]

So you skated around it in your last reply, but are again saying that Portland refused to answer any calls during the draft. I again find that really hard to believe.

They answered and made calls. According to someone on the phones

 

[andalusian]

Woj is linked to Cronin. He will report what Cronin feeds him and wants reported. Shams does this too, it's why he and Woj have gotten where they are.

I'm going off a Shams report, who's not linked to Cronin.

But this podcast happened 3 weeks before the draft. They got it out for a reason. I am certain they told enough people what they wanted - at this point they already had an idea that Scoot is likely going to fall to them and they had him in, so if they told everyone 3 weeks before what they are looking for and a week later someone calls them and say let's talk about something less - why would they waste the time?

I do not believe for a minute that people (other teams) did not know what it would take to get Portland to trade that pick closer to the draft and Portland refused to listen to something that fell within these parameters. Just makes no sense. Portland knew what their options were (Miller or Scoot), knew they liked them enough to understand what it would take to trade the pick - presented it to teams before and refused wasting time on it for subpar offers. That's just good business.

To me, this seems like a bullshit story that Portland did not try to build around Dame. If that was the case they would not have gone through the entire Grant process and they would not have tried to accumulate assets, but controlling what they can (asset accumulation) and working the trades are not the same - and with Dame singing everywhere about how he does not want to play with 19 year old players anymore - he tanked the trade process.

So, no, I do not believe for a minute the FO had an agenda against Dame. If they did, they would not have signed him to a 2 years extension after he was out with a big injury and no-one knew if he would recover. That's just bullshit to me.

Dame got tired of waiting, fine. But I am not putting this on the FO, they are working a lot more logically than the previous one has from what we have seen.

 

[riverman]

Giving up trading a pick days to weeks before the draft without seriously taking calls on draft night when they were likely going to get their best offers says to me there weren't serious about being aggressive in building around Dame this off-season. I highly doubt teams just weren't interested in Scoot Henderson... Reporting was to the contrary.

Joe could've still made moves around Dame until Dame demanded a trade...that stopped any and all moves Joe had on the table at the beginning of free agency and also bottled up the entire free agent market. Joe could've gotten offers for the guys he drafted and still could but that whole market is dead now thanks to one Aaron Goodwin and his shitty timing for a trade demand and the limitations he put on it. I blame Goodwin for bottling up the Blazers options that early in the off season. Scoot could still be traded...so could Sharpe. Nobody thinks that's a winning move but for an Embiid or impact player, you never know. At this point we now know Dame is not interested in making the Blazers better even though he said he was lobbying for players to come to Portland...Dame should have been getting Bam to join us, not the other way around. I still think Dame has made a "coaching change" choice and not so much a roster choice. Poking at the Front Office or roster is the easy target but we fired the guy who got Dame the scoring record and into the elite standings amongst NBA players. Chauncey has proven nothing as a coach other than he's a nice guy. I think like Mo Cheeks, he might be too close to his players .

 

[Phatguysrule]

I don't believe there were. I believe there was a guy with one year left on his deal that Dame convinced to play with him and Jerami and would've re-signed here next off-season.

Okay. Who?

 

[Pinwheel1]

Just as long as he didn't lie privately to Dame. Maybe everything I've heard is completely wrong and he didn't. But even Sly heard he did. Too much smoke. But I'm tired of arguing about that and want them to just move on from Dame already.

I think this is a good idea. At this point, it really doesn't make any difference and it is too hard to prove one way or the other.

As I said in July I don't blame Joe for not giving away our young talent and I don't blame Dame for not wanting to be part of it.
My only frustration is him making it difficult for Joe to get value back. He said back in June that all he wanted was a puncher's chance....but so far he is being stubborn about Miami. If he had shown the same passion for multiple teams, it would have helped us get better value and quite frankly a better opportunity for him to win. Miami better hope Jimmy stays healthy at 34.

 

[BonesJones]

So you skated around it in your last reply, but are again saying that Portland refused to answer any calls during the draft. I again find that really hard to believe.

I'm not saying that definitively, I'm saying it doesn't make sense not to answer. "Answer" is a loose term in itself because it could mean different things to different people. If Portland picks up the phone and says "We're not trading Scoot", does that count as answering because they hit accept on the call?

 

[BonesJones]

Okay. Who?

Jaylen Brown.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Jaylen Brown.

Jaylen Brown for #3? Or just that Brown was willing to come to Portland?

I think Brown was probably willing to re-sign here, but I don't think either team was willing to make that trade.

I don't think either team would want to do it straight across...

 

[julius]

Wiggins for Love, is the most recent example I can find.
Of course, they got Love for Wiggins and a future 1st. Didn't seem with most rumors we were getting anyone for anything short of Ant or Sharpe with the #3, or both, which skews the value.

That worked out well for Minnesota...

(I also meant traded before they were drafted. Point was it's rare)

 

[RR7]

I'm not saying that definitively, I'm saying it doesn't make sense not to answer. "Answer" is a loose term in itself because it could mean different things to different people. If Portland picks up the phone and says "We're not trading Scoot", does that count as answering because they hit accept on the call?

Saying it doesn't make sense not to answer if they're answering sounds a little ridiculous.

It doesn't make sense to not trade the #3 for Giannis. Thus Cronin is an idiot. I'm not saying Giannis was offered. I'm just saying it doesn't make sense not to make that trade.

I'm not saying they didn't answer, just that it doesn't make sense not to. But not saying they didn't. Then wtf are you saying?

 

[Phatguysrule]

I'm not saying that definitively, I'm saying it doesn't make sense not to answer. "Answer" is a loose term in itself because it could mean different things to different people. If Portland picks up the phone and says "We're not trading Scoot", does that count as answering because they hit accept on the call?

I find it hard to believe that was happening. Joe just doesn't strike me as that kind of guy.

 

[riverman]

I don't think Shams is vengeful. He was definitely reporting it from New Orleans side of things though.

Shams lost me with the Gary Payton debacle...he's a click bait hunter. Woj is deeply connected with those in the know as are Marc Spears and several others. Shams lied about Payton and the Toradol stories. It's highly possible that some folks "inside intel" is coming from biased sources as well. .someone trying to make it in the front office would benefit from Joe losing his job if they want his job for example...that's not unusual in the workplace. I've seen that first hand in the school system. At any rate. This whole scenario sucks at a time when we should be thrilled over crushing the draft.

 

[BonesJones]

I think this is a good idea. At this point, it really doesn't make any difference and it is too hard to prove one way or the other.

As I said in July I don't blame Joe for not giving away our young talent and I don't blame Dame for not wanting to be part of it.
My only frustration is him making it difficult for Joe to get value back. He said back in June that all he wanted was a puncher's chance....but so far he is being stubborn about Miami. If he had shown the same passion for multiple teams, it would have helped us get better value and quite frankly a better opportunity for him to win. Miami better hope Jimmy stays healthy at 34.

What I'm going to say is not my intel but it's from someone that'd have legitimate knowledge but is specifically on one side, so don't shoot the messenger:

Apparently Cronin told Dame he'd never need a no-trade clause because he'd do right by him if he ever wanted out. Dame asked out on June 26th and gave Cronin a list of teams, and Cronin then told him "we're going to do what's best for us" and then made that public statement about having a great conversation with Dame and being committed to building a winner around him. Supposedly, that ticked Dame off and is a reason why he's only demanding Miami.

 

[BonesJones]

Shams lost me with the Gary Payton debacle...he's a click bait hunter. Woj is deeply connected with those in the know as are Marc Spears and several others. Shams lied about Payton and the Toradol stories.

Woj is deeply connected because he'll do favors for front offices/agents in terms of reporting. Same with Shams. I agree with everything regarding the GP2 debacle.

 

[RR7]

Jaylen Brown for #3? Or just that Brown was willing to come to Portland?

I think Brown was probably willing to re-sign here, but I don't think either team was willing to make that trade.

I don't think either team would want to do it straight across...

It'd have to be Simons and 3 to match the salary, at the least. Is Boston sending out Brown for Simons and 3? Brown being willing to sign here, and Boston being willing to trade him here are two vastly different things.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I'm just going off a Shams report. And piecing together what Eric heard regarding his utter reluctance to do anything with #3 two weeks before the draft plus talking to Dame about keeping the pick two days before the draft, which I don't think they do unless they fully plan on keeping it. Plus their inactivity in every other area, Jody being cheap, the rumors that they got tired of Dame's pressure, as well as Dame's recent comments about them not wanting the same thing anymore.

Just seems like a lot of leaps of faith... if Jody is so cheap, why pay Grant so much?

This whole "Dame was wronged by Cronin" thing just seems like an incredible reach...

 

[BonesJones]

Jaylen Brown for #3? Or just that Brown was willing to come to Portland?

I think Brown was probably willing to re-sign here, but I don't think either team was willing to make that trade.

I don't think either team would want to do it straight across...

That Brown was willing to leverage the last year of his deal to come to Portland. I never thought Boston was set on giving him that money either and would've taken #3 and Simons for him. They desperately needed guard creation and that extends their championship window.

From the same FO source that gave a bunch of details on what the Jerami Grant trade would look like and how he and Dame were already working out in Portland two months before that trade happened.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Cronin not moving fast enough for Dame'a liking? Most meaningful free agents signed day one. He couldnt have "moved any slower". Hes had two years to make progress and the only meaningful win-now upgrade he's made is a guy Dame recruited. You think I'm biased for Dame, I think your biased for Cronin.

How can a dude tout winning free agent battles, say they need to do well in free agency, don't do anything, then say that was never really the plan? That's a direct contradiction.

Amd there you go again claiming you know what I think, say, or do.

Cronin added Jeremi Grant, Shaedon Sharpe, and Scoot Henderson over 12 months.

Neil Olshey didn't add one piece as good as any of those 3 in 11 years.

It was unreasonable to expect Cronin to flip this shit roster to a contender so quickly.

I've heard GM speak for decades of we're going to build a winner, be aggressive, build around our star, fight for the playoffs, give the fans what they want, etc etc. If you or Dame bought all those generic PR statement as a 100% guaranteed to execute commitment - well that's not Cronin's fault.

 

[BonesJones]

Just seems like a lot of leaps of faith... if Jody is so cheap, why pay Grant so much?

This whole "Dame was wronged by Cronin" thing just seems like an incredible reach...

Jody just doesn't want to pay the tax. There was pressure to pay the tax with Dame. Now there's none and she doesn't have to worry about it.

 

[Phatguysrule]

It'd have to be Simons and 3 to match the salary, at the least. Is Boston sending out Brown for Simons and 3? Brown being willing to sign here, and Boston being willing to trade him here are two vastly different things.

Great point. I was thinking an expiring or something...

It seemed like something may have been able to happen on that, but it seemed like Boston wanted a major overpay.

 

[riverman]

Woj is deeply connected because he'll do favors for front offices/agents in terms of reporting. Same with Shams. I agree with everything regarding the GP2 debacle.

He's deeply connected because of his history with agents, owners and GMs for decades. Every sports writer uses their favors as a marketing tool Torey...Shams however, lied to get in Golden States good graces.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Then Cronin should've said as much when he was preaching transparency.

I've seen Dame drag pretty mediocre supporting casts to playoff wins. Even if it was likely to fall short, I wanted to take a swing because even a rebuild is likely to fall short. It's not easy.

GM's never speak that way, thats just not how the NBA works.

If you think everything the GM says at a press conference is guaranteed to happen.... thats not Cronin's fault.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Jody just doesn't want to pay the tax. There was pressure to pay the tax with Dame. Now there's none and she doesn't have to worry about it.

Makes sense from Jody's shitty perspective, I guess. I really don't like her as the owner of this franchise...

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Steph, Dirk, Duncan.

Dirk was a year younger than Dame is now.

Duncan did not carry that team - Kawhi was the MVP and it was a balanced deep squad like the Pistons.

Steph was not older, he was the same age as Dame now - so Dame would have to win the title this season.

 

[BonesJones]

Cronin added Jeremi Grant, Shaedon Sharpe, and Scoot Henderson over 12 months.

Neil Olshey didn't add one piece as good as any of those 3 in 11 years.

It was unreasonable to expect Cronin to flip this shit roster to a contender so quickly.

I've heard GM speak for decades of we're going to build a winner, be aggressive, build around our star, fight for the playoffs, give the fans what they want, etc etc. If you or Dame bought all those generic PR statement as 100% guaranteed commitment then that's not Cronin's fault.

A 19-year-old rookie guard who didn't play past high school is not a win-now upgrade for Dame in my mind. Neither is a 19-year old PG. They're great pieces to kick off a rebuild though!

Two top 7 picks, the 23rd pick, and two Full MLEs at his disposal and not one of those assets were used to make a win-now upgrade around Dame. His words were a direct contradiction to what I think his intentions were this off-season. If you're cool with that, that's fine.

 

[BonesJones]

He's deeply connected because of his history with agents, owners and GMs for decades. Every sports writer uses their favors as a marketing tool Torey...Shams however, lied to get in Golden States good graces.

I agree with everything you just said.

 

[riverman]

Jody is smart to not pay the tax since Dame asked out. Chauncey hasn't overachieved with his rosters to make an owner want to dig deep. She paid Dame a fortune for him to want out of his contract 4 years early...I don't think that screams luxury tax to any smart owner.

 

[riverman]

Dirk was a year younger than Dame is now.

Duncan did not carry that team - Kawhi was the MVP and it was a balanced deep squad like the Pistons.

Steph was not older, he was the same age as Dame now - so Dame would have to win the title this season.

Duncan didn't carry that team...he LED that team as the team captain. Kawhi isn't a leader by any stretch..Duncan also took a paycut to bring Ginobli back...Kawhi didn't take a paycut for the team and in fact demanded to be traded and sat out a long stretch of a season pretty much until they moved him.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Giving up trading a pick days to weeks before the draft without seriously taking calls on draft night when they were likely going to get their best offers says to me there weren't serious about being aggressive in building around Dame this off-season. I highly doubt teams just weren't interested in Scoot Henderson... Reporting was to the contrary.

Very well could be true at that point. Doesn't make a comment Cronin said months or years earlier a lie. Plans change.