Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters

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barfo said:
And your point is what, two wrongs make a right? Criminal behavior should be tolerated because free speech?

barfo
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They should shoot lefties when they sit in.
 
Denny Crane said:
Without civil disobedience, the civil rights movement would have been stopped in its tracks in the 1950s.

In 1968, anti government protesters flocked to Chicago to picket the Democratic Convention and took physical beatings from the cops, refusing to obey their orders.

Some people are willing to martyr themselves for the cause. Witness the Freedom Riders.

It is civil disobedience.
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Protesters in Chicago weren't occupying a small town's wildlife refuge armed to the teeth and threatening to shoot cops from what I remember
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Being in a car full of guns and suddenly driving towards the cops isn't civil disobedience.
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There was a car full of guns? I think you made that up.

These guys protested the government's actions regarding land rights for several years without anyone getting killed. They occupied an empty government building in the middle of nowhere.
 
riverman said:
Protesters in Chicago weren't occupying a small town's wildlife refuge armed to the teeth and threatening to shoot cops from what I remember
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When did they threaten to shoot cops?
 
Denny Crane said:
There was a car full of guns? I think you made that up.

These guys protested the government's actions regarding land rights for several years without anyone getting killed. They occupied an empty government building in the middle of nowhere.
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Did you listen to the video? At least 3 of them in the car had guns.
 
The news coverage of this whole thing has been abysmal. I don't not know much if anything about what the grievance is these guys are protesting. Instead of giving us the story, the news reporters have taken a short cut and assumed these guys are whackos, Misusing the word Militia as a synonym for whacko or an adjective to whacko.

Perhaps these people are confused as to what rights they have, but we sure as hell don't know what the issue is from the lazy assed reports we read. It is also amusing to see so many manipulated by the use of the word Militia!!! How the hell did my countryman get this way?
 
riverman said:
Protesters in Chicago weren't occupying a small town's wildlife refuge armed to the teeth and threatening to shoot cops from what I remember
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http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/03/u...prison-angering-far-right-activists.html?_r=0

Mr. Bundy described the federal building as “the people’s facility, owned by the people” and said his group was occupying it to take “a hard stand against this overreach, this taking of the people’s land and resources.”

He said the group would remain there indefinitely and told an interviewer that he hoped more supporters would join them. “We have a facility that we can house them in,” he said, referring to the occupied building.

“We pose no threat to anybody,” Mr. Bundy said. “There is no person that is physically harmed by what we are doing.” He added that if law enforcement officials “bring physical harm to us, they will be doing it only for a facility or a building.”
 
More from the post story:

(SPD's source):
“I didn’t see the shooting,” McConnell said, but from what he was told by Cox, Finicum “was not on his knees” when he was shot — a claim made by Nevada Assemblywoman Michele Fiore, who also tweeted that Finicum was “murdered with his hands up.”

...


McConnell’s account conflicts with statements made by Victoria Sharp, who said she was the 18-year-old in the car with Finicum. In a 12-minute audio clip uploaded to YouTube, Sharp said Payne was trying to get herand Cox out of the car when police took their first shot.

“He put his hands out the window, he was trying to talk with them,” Sharp said of Payne. “He said, ‘We have women in the car, at least let the women get out.’ And he stuck his head out and they shot at him, but they missed him, or he ducked just in time.”

The shot showed that the occupiers that authorities “meant business,” Sharp said, but it also led Finicum to speed off, yelling that he was going to go “talk to the sheriff.”

“He drove and we all got down on the floorboards and they just started firing at us, shooting at us a bunch of times,” Sharp said.

Then Finicum rammed his truck into the snowbank at the roadblock.

“He got out of the car and he had his hands in the air and he was like, ‘Just shoot me then. Is this what you want? Just shoot me.’

“And they did,” she said. “They shot him dead.”
 
MarAzul said:
The news coverage of this whole thing has been abysmal. I don't not know much if anything about what the grievance is these guys are protesting.
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I think you know at least as much as they do themselves.

Instead of giving us the story, the news reporters have taken a short cut and assumed these guys are whackos, Misusing the word Militia as a synonym for whacko or an adjective to whacko.

Perhaps these people are confused as to what rights they have, but we sure as hell don't know what the issue is from the lazy assed reports we read. It is also amusing to see so many manipulated by the use of the word Militia!!! How the hell did my countryman get this way?
Click to expand...

Words change meaning over time. I'd say there is excellent reason for militia having come to mean whacko. The only recent use of the word is by whackos that self-describe as militias.

barfo
 
"Progressive" has come to mean whacko, too.

Thanks Obama!
 
Denny Crane said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/03/u...prison-angering-far-right-activists.html?_r=0

Mr. Bundy described the federal building as “the people’s facility, owned by the people” and said his group was occupying it to take “a hard stand against this overreach, this taking of the people’s land and resources.”

He said the group would remain there indefinitely and told an interviewer that he hoped more supporters would join them. “We have a facility that we can house them in,” he said, referring to the occupied building.

“We pose no threat to anybody,” Mr. Bundy said. “There is no person that is physically harmed by what we are doing.” He added that if law enforcement officials “bring physical harm to us, they will be doing it only for a facility or a building.”
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Just' some good ol' boys

Never meanin' no harm

Beats all you never saw

Been in trouble with the law

Since the day they was born



Staightnin' the curves

Flatnin the hills

Someday the mountain might get 'em

But the law never will



Makin' their way

The only way they know how

That's just a little bit more

Than the law will allow.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-establishment

Individuals who were anti-establishment often spoke of "fighting the man", "selling out to the Establishment", and "tearing down the Establishment." Many well renowned activists and activist groups innovated great changes to society by standing up to "the Establishment", including the Grateful Dead, Symbionese Liberation Army, Black Panther Party, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X, Malvina Reynolds, Howard Zinn, Noam Chomsky, Public Enemy, John Lennon, K-Rino, Immortal Technique, Anti-Flag, Rage Against the Machine, Terminator X, Gil-Scott Heron, dead prez, Timothy Leary, Paris, Lupe Fiasco among others.

The "Establishment" to these, and these anti-establishment activists was not simply the people of the older generation. Dictionary.com defines the establishment as "the existing power structure in society; the dominant groups in society and their customs or institutions; institutional authority",[7] Merriam-Webster defines the words as "a group of social, economic, and political leaders who form a ruling class"[8] and The Free Dictionary defines it as "A group of people holding most of the power and influence in a government or society."[9]
 
Denny Crane said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-establishment

Individuals who were anti-establishment often spoke of "fighting the man", "selling out to the Establishment", and "tearing down the Establishment." Many well renowned activists and activist groups innovated great changes to society by standing up to "the Establishment", including the Grateful Dead, Symbionese Liberation Army, Black Panther Party, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X, Malvina Reynolds, Howard Zinn, Noam Chomsky, Public Enemy, John Lennon, K-Rino, Immortal Technique, Anti-Flag, Rage Against the Machine, Terminator X, Gil-Scott Heron, dead prez, Timothy Leary, Paris, Lupe Fiasco among others.

The "Establishment" to these, and these anti-establishment activists was not simply the people of the older generation. Dictionary.com defines the establishment as "the existing power structure in society; the dominant groups in society and their customs or institutions; institutional authority",[7] Merriam-Webster defines the words as "a group of social, economic, and political leaders who form a ruling class"[8] and The Free Dictionary defines it as "A group of people holding most of the power and influence in a government or society."[9]
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you keep trying to romanticize these guys by comparing them to historical activists....when in fact, they are just whackos
 
riverman said:
you keep trying to romanticize these guys by comparing them to historical activists....when in fact, they are just whackos
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They're clearly activists. They've been acting out against government land policies for decades. That is, by definition, a cause.
 
Denny Crane said:
They're clearly activists. They've been acting out against government land policies for decades. That is, by definition, a cause.
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I listened to their live chat...they're whackos..if they want to be activists, they should be in Washington DC protesting and leave this small rural community in peace. If they want to appeal a jail sentence...they should be in court. I disagree with the way they are doing this and I have not followed their decades long cause so I can't comment on that.
 
I grew up on a dairy farm in the Midwest..we raised cattle and all variety of livestock without invading public lands to feed them. We grew food for the amount of cattle we could sustain. Animal husbandry requires sensible management. If you can't feed your herd, it's time to thin the herd. These same cowboys slaughtered a wealth of Bison to make room for free range cattle ranching. Devastated the indigenous poplutions food source and source of material. This country has devoted an enormous portion of land to cattle. They really need that BLM land in Burns too?
 
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