Moving Outlaw is a Mistake

[Pinwheel1]

If Chemistry is over rated then why do we care if we have a log jam at a certain position. We always say it will create a chemistry problem. Some players won't be happy. Blah blah fucking Blah

Well I am glad we can stop worrying about consolidation and start worrying about getting the best talent available.
Because like Pat Riley said "it takes 15 players to win a championship. (or something like that)

 

[MickZagger]

1 player isn't going to bend or break a teams chemistry. If you can get a player like G. Wallace, Butler or Jefferson you unload your inconsistent 6th man every time.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

1 player isn't going to bend or break a teams chemistry. If you can get a player like G. Wallace, Butler or Jefferson you unload your inconsistent 6th man every time.

especially when we have another inconsistent 6th man ready to take over? haha

 

[MickZagger]

especially when we have another inconsistent 6th man ready to take over? haha

Batum and Webster (when he comes back) will split the time. Would you rather have an inconsistent 6th man or a consistently solid starter?

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Batum and Webster (when he comes back) will split the time. Would you rather have an inconsistent 6th man or a consistently solid starter?

haha I was talking about Rudy being the inconsistent 6th man.

 

[Iwatas]

I'm OK with Jefferson, but I prefer Vince.

 

[MAS RipCity]

KP has put way too much into building a winning chemistry in this team to risk losing that by trading Outlaw.

This team has chemistry. The guys are humble, thier egos in check, they stay out of trouble, they are low key, they enjoy each others company (recent article how they choose to go out to dinner and stuff with each other) . . . they aren't about the bling as much as improving as a team with one goal in mind, championship. And the glue to all that . . . Outlaw.

He is everyone's best friend. He is a happy go lucky talent that doesn't complain about coming off the bench, minutes or position he plays. He will take the game winning shot when asked or sit on the bench and watch . . . without questions or drama. He is one of the first guys celebrating with the Blazer that made a big shot, no matter who that player is . . . he even seem to have developed a special bond with Oden as a couple of times those two celebrated on the court GO takes his big "old" hand and rubs travis head (don't see Oden being that animated with other players).

Bottom line, I know the chant here is to trade Outlaw, but his value is being underestimated . . . Travis is a key ingredient to this team.

Someone gets "it"! I couldn't have said it better myself If only more people got "it"....
he is clutch, on a cheap deal, and loved by all the teammates...what's not to love, esp from a BENCH player?

 

[Minstrel]

he is clutch, on a cheap deal, and loved by all the teammates...what's not to love, esp from a BENCH player?

Nothing. But if one can trade a good BENCH player for a good STARTER, what's not to love about that?

 

[Pinwheel1]

especially when we have another inconsistent 6th man ready to take over? haha

Who doesn't? Aren't about 80% of all "6th man" inconsistent? How many have we had in 35 + years that have been consistent?

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Who doesn't? Aren't about 80% of all "6th man" inconsistent? How many have we had in 35 + years that have been consistent?

lol it was a joke

 

[MAS RipCity]

Nothing. But if one can trade a good BENCH player for a good STARTER, what's not to love about that?

Because, once Roy Oden and LMA are get into their primes, that starter is going to want their usual touches while Travis already knows his role off of the bench.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Because, once Roy Oden and LMA are get into their primes, that starter is going to want their usual touches while Travis already knows his role off of the bench.

Gerald Wallace will want his usual touches?

 

[Minstrel]

Because, once Roy Oden and LMA are get into their primes, that starter is going to want their usual touches while Travis already knows his role off of the bench.

Remains to be seen. Wallace, as JFizzleRaider implied, isn't a player who demands touches. Vince Carter would be gone in two seasons. Caron Butler might want touches, but he doesn't seem like a player who demands them. Nor does Roy or Aldridge.

 

[B-Roy]

Because, once Roy Oden and LMA are get into their primes, that starter is going to want their usual touches while Travis already knows his role off of the bench.

Outlaw and arguably Roy are the only players who "demand" touches.

 

[Sinobas]

Travis is always messing up on defense and allowing offensive rebounds. Also, for every great shot he hits, there's some bone-headed screw up. He's developed a nice 3pt shoot, but he's poor FT% and is a dangerous ball handler(dangerous to us).

Why would it be a mistake to trade him for a good all-round starting SF? Players that can jack up a lot of shots and hit 44% are not really at a premium in the NBA.

 

[julius]

I don't think it's "for every + there is a -" with Travis, but I think it's about 3 good, 1 bad. But the 1 bad leads to a lot of noticeable things, and get a little overblown.

 

[MAS RipCity]

Gerald Wallace will want his usual touches?

Wallace no..Buter/RJEff/Vince..I worry yes.
Wallace is more of a hustle/defense type of guy. All reports and times I have seen him, he seems like a good team guy. But we could get him with Webster and not Outlaw.

 

[SnakeOiler]

So you're saying a team can win with terrible chemistry?

Why should we worry about terrible chemistry, then?

Is the object of NBA games to win or to have good chemistry?

Ed O.

The object is to win games, have good chemistry, and have enough left over to milk the cows in the morning. Duh.

 

[B-Roy]

Wallace no..Buter/RJEff/Vince..I worry yes.
Wallace is more of a hustle/defense type of guy. All reports and times I have seen him, he seems like a good team guy. But we could get him with Webster and not Outlaw.

Ugh. Player obsessions are annoying.

If we could get Wallace, and Charlotte DEMANDED Outlaw instead of Webster, would you do it?

 

[MAS RipCity]

nah, Outlaw is too clutch for us. Wallace's contract is too long and too injury prone for me to give into demands over him. Who would play backup 4 if we dealt him? Do you want more Channing and Ike?!?!
I'd be perfectly happy netting Salmons for Frye and pick if it meant keeping Outlaw.
I just don't think half of you understand just how valuable he is to our team. He just has intangibles about him.

 

[ehizzy3]

outlaw has intangibles?

 

[B-Roy]

nah, Outlaw is too clutch for us. Wallace's contract is too long and too injury prone for me to give into demands over him. Who would play backup 4 if we dealt him? Do you want more Channing and Ike?!?!
I'd be perfectly happy netting Salmons for Frye and pick if it meant keeping Outlaw.
I just don't think half of you understand just how valuable he is to our team. He just has intangibles about him.

You give 12 mins backup PF to Gerald Wallace, and 20 mins at SF. That leaves even more minutes for Webster/Batum.

And clutch is a stupid argument. Even if we assume Outlaw is "clutch" there's no need for two "clutch" players on the same team. Roy is enough, he'll get the ball at the end of the game, period. Just like Kobe, just like LeBron, just like Wade, just like Paul etc. etc. etc.

We won't miss the "clutchness" of Outlaw.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

nah, Outlaw is too clutch for us. Wallace's contract is too long and too injury prone for me to give into demands over him. Who would play backup 4 if we dealt him? Do you want more Channing and Ike?!?!
I'd be perfectly happy netting Salmons for Frye and pick if it meant keeping Outlaw.
I just don't think half of you understand just how valuable he is to our team. He just has intangibles about him.

Hasn't Wallace played backup 4 this year some?

 

[crowTrobot]

I don't think it's "for every + there is a -" with Travis, but I think it's about 3 good, 1 bad. But the 1 bad leads to a lot of noticeable things, and get a little overblown.

i think you have that backwards. of blazer regular rotation players he has played the 3rd most minutes but has the worst net on/off-court (-5.2). he may have won a few games with clutch shooting, but overall the team has had a lot more success without him on the floor than with.

http://www.82games.com/0809/0809POR.HTM

 

[Natebishop3]

I pretty much think any trade for a small forward at this point, guarantees that Travis is gone. I don't see any way around it. Otherwise it's a logjam.

 

[Jayps15]

Per 36- FGA - PTs - PTs/FGA
Outlaw- 13.4 - 16.1 - 1.20
Carter- 16.3 - 20.6 - 1.26
RJeff- 13.8 - 17.8 - 1.29
Wallace- 11.6- 16.4 - 1.41
Butler- 15.0 - 19.0 - 1.27

BRoy- 16.4 - 21.8 - 1.33

As far as getting touches goes just about every one of the discussed veteran SFs takes pretty damn close to the same number of field goal attempts per minute as Outlaw, combined with the fact that every single one of them is more efficient and that they all average more assists I don't see how you could worry about 'selfishness' on offense. All of these guys are their teams 1st or second options, and none of them even take as many attempts as BRoy. Together with a big upgrade in perimeter defense, veteran experience, and consistency I know I would welcome any trade for one of these players that includes Outlaw.

 

[B-Roy]

Per 36- FGA - PTs - PTs/FGA
Outlaw- 13.4 - 16.1 - 1.20
Carter- 16.3 - 20.6 - 1.26
RJeff- 13.8 - 17.8 - 1.29
Wallace- 11.6- 16.4 - 1.41
Butler- 15.0 - 19.0 - 1.27

BRoy- 16.4 - 21.8 - 1.33

As far as getting touches goes just about every one of the discussed veteran SFs takes pretty damn close to the same number of field goal attempts per minute as Outlaw, combined with the fact that every single one of them is more efficient and that they all average more assists I don't see how you could worry about 'selfishness' on offense. All of these guys are their teams 1st or second options, and none of them even take as many attempts as BRoy. Together with a big upgrade in perimeter defense, veteran experience, and consistency I know I would welcome any trade for one of these players that includes Outlaw.

Excellent! +1

 

[Public Defender]

And clutch is a stupid argument. Even if we assume Outlaw is "clutch" there's no need for two "clutch" players on the same team. Roy is enough, he'll get the ball at the end of the game, period. Just like Kobe, just like LeBron, just like Wade, just like Paul etc. etc. etc.

We won't miss the "clutchness" of Outlaw.

Totally, totally disagree. The LA Lakers, when they were winning championships, didn't just have Kobe. Some of the biggest late-game shots made by that team were - as much as I shudder remembering them - made by Derek Fisher and Robert Horry. The same with the Chicago Bulls - Steve Kerr made one of the biggest shots in that team's history. With LeBron - how much better are the Cavaliers now that they have another guy who can dependably hit shots under pressure in Mo Williams (they've got two now, you might argue, with Wally Szczerbiak on that team, now, too).

That said, I'm not opposed to trading Outlaw. As much as he seems like a great team guy, and possibly the greatest athlete in the Western Conference, he just continues to make lots of bone-headed mistakes. I'm not saying I'd advocate trading him, but he's not untouchable. And if a guy with the consistency, talent, and experience of Richard Jefferson was available, I'd be hard-pressed to refuse sending out Outlaw.

 

[julius]

i think you have that backwards. of blazer regular rotation players he has played the 3rd most minutes but has the worst net on/off-court (-5.2). he may have won a few games with clutch shooting, but overall the team has had a lot more success without him on the floor than with.

http://www.82games.com/0809/0809POR.HTM

Possibly.

 

[B-Roy]

Totally, totally disagree. The LA Lakers, when they were winning championships, didn't just have Kobe. Some of the biggest late-game shots made by that team were - as much as I shudder remembering them - made by Derek Fisher and Robert Horry. The same with the Chicago Bulls - Steve Kerr made one of the biggest shots in that team's history. With LeBron - how much better are the Cavaliers now that they have another guy who can dependably hit shots under pressure in Mo Williams (they've got two now, you might argue, with Wally Szczerbiak on that team, now, too).

Two clutch players aren't a necessity though, that's what I mean. Our second option in crunch time should be LaMarcus Aldridge anyways, who always seems to make shots when it matters. Yet Nate always goes to Outlaw.

Oh, and the difference between Mo Williams, Fisher, and Horry were that they played off the ball. Kobe still got the ball, still made the play, only the other players made shots. With Outlaw, he HAS to have to ball, and he HAS to shoot.