Mystery still clouds Oden's Blazer status

[Draco]

And fans have every right to be upset. They've invested a lot of their "love" for Oden. So being upset at fans thinking Oden needs to do what they think "Is the moral and right thing" has everything to do with character. This is absolutely a business and he is free to do what his "Heart desires" in terms of city, team or girls he plans to show his cock to. But to think our fan base should be understanding of the possibility of him leaving is total bullshit. I hope our fan base Boo's him and burns his Jerseys if he bolts this fan base and team that supported him 100%.

I just don't like this negative way of thinking. If Oden wants to come back he should, but I don't want him motivated because he wants to avoid negative backlash. Positive motivation is far more effective then negative motivation. If he is motivated to return to Portland because he thinks it would be a feel good story to finally get healthy he should. If he thinks he could be very happy and succesful in the next few years in Portland he should consider staying.

I don't want him coming back because he's scared a bunch of fans will burn his jersey if he goes somewhere else.

 

[Boob-No-More]

If I was any other team he goes to, I'd have a performance clause in his contract that says, "Greg Odens salary is void unless he plays a minimum of 40 games a year." Etched in stone!!!

Right. There's this thing called the CBA. That used to mean Continental Basketball Association. Now, it refers to Collective Bargaining Agreement. It spells out the guidelines for player contracts. It does not allow the type of "performance clause" you describe. You can etch it stone all you want, but if it's not in the contract, it don't mean shit, and thanks to the CBA it CAN'T be in the contract of any NBA player.

Thiink about it. If this was actually allowed EVERY NBA contract would have such a pay for play clause. Nope, all NBA contracts are guaranteed. If I player can't play because he's injured he still gets paid. If he plays but sucks, he still gets paid. Is it perfect? No, but both the owners and players voted to approve the CBA. So, it is what it is, and both sides agreed to it. I'm afraid you anger won't void Greg's contract, or the NBA CBA.

BNM

 

[magnifier661]

I just don't like this negative way of thinking. If Oden wants to come back he should, but I don't want him motivated because he wants to avoid negative backlash. Positive motivation is far more effective then negative motivation. If he is motivated to return to Portland because he thinks it would be a feel good story to finally get healthy he should. If he thinks he could be very happy and succesful in the next few years in Portland he should consider staying.

I don't want him coming back because he's scared a bunch of fans will burn his jersey if he goes somewhere else.

No way fans are doing or even threatening this, so why would he even think it? All he has is nothing but love in the Rose Garden, and around Portland (what I hear). We have given him nothing but love. And this is why I would be totally pissed if he gets this love and still refuses to give it a chance for us fans.

 

[B-Roy]

No way fans are doing or even threatening this, so why would he even think it? All he has is nothing but love in the Rose Garden, and around Portland (what I hear). We have given him nothing but love. And this is why I would be totally pissed if he gets this love and still refuses to give it a chance for us fans.

LEBRONNNNN, WHY DID YOU LEAVE USSS??????

 

[Draco]

No way fans are doing or even threatening this, so why would he even think it? All he has is nothing but love in the Rose Garden, and around Portland (what I hear). We have given him nothing but love. And this is why I would be totally pissed if he gets this love and still refuses to give it a chance for us fans.

Oden gets far from "nothing but love" There are fans that want him gone no matter what and fans that mock him consistently and fans that question his work ethic, and question his character because he has been hurt. Just read through this thread, I woudl hardly call it "nothing but love"

 

[magnifier661]

Oden gets far from "nothing but love" There are fans that want him gone no matter what and fans that mock him consistently and fans that question his work ethic, and question his character because he has been hurt. Just read through this thread, I woudl hardly call it "nothing but love"

So you think he gets more love on any other fan-base? We have "what" like 100+ fans in this forum? I suspect that's less than 1,000,000th a percent of the Blazer fans in Portland and throughout the world. I live in Cali and I've always tried and support him. My negativity is only if he bolts without even showing us what maybe.

If he comes out and flops, then we deal with it. If he comes out and is average and another team is willing to give more than our Brass thinks they want to pay; then I will be more upset with management than Oden. I go both ways. I will blame Management in the same fashion as well.

 

[Draco]

Right. There's this thing called the CBA. That used to mean Continental Basketball Association. Now, it refers to Collective Bargaining Agreement. It spells out the guidelines for player contracts. It does not allow the type of "performance clause" you describe. You can etch it stone all you want, but if it's not in the contract, it don't mean shit, and thanks to the CBA it CAN'T be in the contract of any NBA player.

Thiink about it. If this was actually allowed EVERY NBA contract would have such a pay for play clause. Nope, all NBA contracts are guaranteed. If I player can't play because he's injured he still gets paid. If he plays but sucks, he still gets paid. Is it perfect? No, but both the owners and players voted to approve the CBA. So, it is what it is, and both sides agreed to it. I'm afraid you anger won't void Greg's contract, or the NBA CBA.

BNM

Yes and No. Contracts do not have to be guaranteed, players just fought for the option to have contract be guaranteed, whereas owners wanted all contracts to not be fully guaranteed. Just as owners give coaches long term fully guaranteed contracts, when there is zero reason they have to guarantee more then the current season, mangament similarly gives fully guaranteed deals to players.

That being said you are correct that Ghost Peppers performance clauses are not conforming to the CBA. Incenstives can only be a certain percentage of the total value of a contract.

 

[magnifier661]

LEBRONNNNN, WHY DID YOU LEAVE USSS??????

Ahhhh but here's the difference. The same difference with Howard and Shaq. They made it pretty obvious that they were going to leave and it's management's fault for not dealing them when they had the chance. If Oden openly said "Hey fans, sorry but I won't come back. I want to start fresh somewhere else." Then it gives management time to do something about it.

Now if Oden did tell management that he wants out and Brass is trying to keep it from us; then I will be even more pissed at Brass than I ever would with Oden.

And remember this thread is on the "hypothetical of him leaving". This is assumption and we are debating on that assumption.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Oden gets far from "nothing but love" There are fans that want him gone no matter what and fans that mock him consistently and fans that question his work ethic, and question his character because he has been hurt. Just read through this thread, I woudl hardly call it "nothing but love"

No shit. He constantly gets blasted by assholes on his own blog, his FB page and everywhere else his name is mentioned online. He is basically treated like the punchline of a bad joke. Yeah, he gets paid a lot to put up with that abuse, but it's not his fault he's injured and can't play. Did people in New Jersey have the same attitude toward Drazen Petrovic because he died and couldn't play?

Get over it people. The guy's injured and can't play. He didn't do it just to piss you off. So, stop acting like he did.

BNM

 

[Draco]

So you think he gets more love on any other fan-base? We have "what" like 100+ fans in this forum? I suspect that's less than 1,000,000th a percent of the Blazer fans in Portland and throughout the world. I live in Cali and I've always tried and support him. My negativity is only if he bolts without even showing us what maybe.

No I don't think he would have gotten much more love from any fanbase that drafted him. I just totally disagree with your "nothing but love" statement. A vocal segment of fans have bashed Oden since his rookie year, I mean I understand their frusteration, dissapointment and why they are doing it.

 

[Boob-No-More]

That being said you are correct that Ghost Peppers performance clauses are not conforming to the CBA. Incenstives can only be a certain percentage of the total value of a contract.

Yes, and they are incentives, not disencentives. You can be rewarded for performing above the expected level, but you can't be docked for performing below it.

BNM

 

[magnifier661]

No shit. He constantly gets blasted by assholes on his own blog, his FB page and everywhere else his name is mentioned online. He is basically treated like the punchline of a bad joke. Yeah, he gets paid a lot to put up with that abuse, but it's not his fault he's injured and can't play. Did people in New Jersey have the same attitude toward Drazen Petrovic because he died and couldn't play?

Get over it people. The guy's injured and can't play. He didn't do it just to piss you off. So, stop acting like he did.

BNM

Dude I support him about not being able to play and hope he comes back soon. I am pissed if the hypothetic "bolt" on us. I will hate him more than any other Player on the Planet and that includes "Kobe" if this does happen. And I won't lighten up on that one bit.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Ghost peppers? WTF is that?

 

[B-Roy]

Ahhhh but here's the difference. The same difference with Howard and Shaq. They made it pretty obvious that they were going to leave and it's management's fault for not dealing them when they had the chance. If Oden openly said "Hey fans, sorry but I won't come back. I want to start fresh somewhere else." Then it gives management time to do something about it.

LeBron never said he was leaving until the decision. He kept everyone in the dark until he decided to host his little interview on ESPN.

In either case, it's all semantics. One way or another they left (or are going to leave), and it's pointless to be angry at them for what they decide to do.

The sooner you detach yourself from this Oden situation completely, the better you'll feel.

 

[magnifier661]

There is a big part of me hoping this is some nightmare I'm gonna wake up from. That all this "He's gonna bolt after this season" crap was all just "Bullshit". I want nothing more than having Oden be a part of our organization for a long while.

 

[Draco]

Yes, and they are incentives, not disencentives. You can be rewarded for performing above the expected level, but you can't be docked for performing below it.

BNM

No, you can have incentives for # of games played.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I swear to god I'm going to lose it if I hear one more argument with the words: "love" or "moral(ity)" in it. Greg didn't pick Portland, he was chosen and paid on his potential, not production like all draft picks in professional sports. Now he's come to the end of his contract (which the Blazers chose not to extend -- wisely in my opinion) and we're close to the point where Oden gets to chose his own path. There's nothing "immoral" about him going somewhere else, anymore than it would be "immoral" for the Blazers to think of trading somebody on the roster; it's a business.

As for "love?" There's a 99.99% chance that he doesn't have a personal relationship with a single person that watches him play -- when all of the attention and adoration is a one way street, that's not love that's stalking.

I think some people around here need a major reality check.

 

[Boob-No-More]

No, you can have incentives for # of games played.

That's what I said. You can have incentives (within the limits of the CBA) for playing more than x number of games. But you can't have a disincentive that voids his contract if he doesn't play in at least 40 games, as the OP "proposed":

"If I was any other team he goes to, I'd have a performance clause in his contract that says, "Greg Odens salary is void unless he plays a minimum of 40 games a year." Etched in stone!!! "

That's just plain ridiculous. Like the NBA player's association would ever allow something like that into the CBA.

BNM

 

[Nikolokolus]

Ahhhh but here's the difference. The same difference with Howard and Shaq. They made it pretty obvious that they were going to leave and it's management's fault for not dealing them when they had the chance. If Oden openly said "Hey fans, sorry but I won't come back. I want to start fresh somewhere else." Then it gives management time to do something about it.

Now if Oden did tell management that he wants out and Brass is trying to keep it from us; then I will be even more pissed at Brass than I ever would with Oden.

And remember this thread is on the "hypothetical of him leaving". This is assumption and we are debating on that assumption.

Complete apples to oranges comparison. Greg is damaged goods, whereas those guys were/are maybe the mostly hotly pursued free agents of all time. Even if he told the Blazers he wanted out, there's not much they could get for him.

 

[magnifier661]

Complete apples to oranges comparison. Greg is damaged goods, whereas those guys were/are maybe the mostly hotly pursued free agents of all time. Even if he told the Blazers he wanted out, there's not much they could get for him.

You are right but I guess I didn't clearly put it. I mean that they are keeping the fact that oden wants to play elsewhere. Not because they want to trade him, but being fair to the fans that have been supporting this team and hoping one day oden will play in Portland.

If management gives us a "okay guys it's time to move on with Oden because he wishes not to be a blazer anymore", then it gives us fans a chance to accept the loss. Instead we are waiting and no absolutely nothing on if he returns, can he ever play or will he play in portland.

 

[B-Roy]

If management gives us a "okay guys it's time to move on with Oden because he wishes not to be a blazer anymore", then it gives us fans a chance to accept the loss. Instead we are waiting and no absolutely nothing on if he returns, can he ever play or will he play in portland.

They would never do that for multiple reasons. Most things aren't so clear cut. Get over it.

 

[magnifier661]

They would never do that for multiple reasons. Most things aren't so clear cut. Get over it.

Nah I don't think I will. In fact, I am so on it.

 

[MickZagger]

Complete apples to oranges comparison. Greg is damaged goods, whereas those guys were/are maybe the mostly hotly pursued free agents of all time. Even if he told the Blazers he wanted out, there's not much they could get for him.

Their dignity back?

 

[Nikolokolus]

Nah I don't think I will. In fact, I am so on it.

I think you need help.

 

[magnifier661]

I think you need help.

Mental or educational?

 

[SantaDora]

Mental or educational?

Gardening.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Mental or educational?

emotional.

 

[magnifier661]

emotional.

That's what you think. Anyone that knows me personally would disagree with you.

 

[Draco]

emotional.

Seriously, I normally enjoy your Blazer passion Mags but your tone is as if Oden was you're girlfriend who may choose to breakup with you in the summer if she decides to study abroad.

 

[magnifier661]

Seriously, I normally enjoy your Blazer passion Mags but your tone is as if Oden was you're girlfriend who may choose to breakup with you in the summer if she decides to study abroad.

The tone is simple. If its true he doesn't give a fuck about us fans, then I don't give a rats ass about him. If he's on the court and even plays a very average game, I will still support him 100%. This is how I feel about most everyone on the team, when they are on this team.