Neil speaks

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BonesJones said:
There's just something about the way he talks though... Sounds like he's trying to sell bullshit to the fanbase and expects us to not expect anything from him because he doesn't have the options (aka ability) to improve the team.
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He's always said the way we improve the team is through player development....he's right...CJ was on the bench for 2 years...so was Crabbe...now they're both making bank...the front office has a long term mindset and the fan base wants instant gratification...those two things aren't going to settle into a comfort zone anytime soon...we're 7 wins ahead of last season's record at this time..that's improvement...we're on pace to make the playoffs again without a roster of superstars...and we're young...healthy...they'll say trust the process....if you don't..you're probably going to be pretty unhappy
 
riverman said:
He's always said the way we improve the team is through player development....he's right...CJ was on the bench for 2 years...so was Crabbe...now they're both making bank...the front office has a long term mindset and the fan base wants instant gratification...those two things aren't going to settle into a comfort zone anytime soon...we're 7 wins ahead of last season's record at this time..that's improvement...we're on pace to make the playoffs again without a roster of superstars...and we're young...healthy...they'll say trust the process....if you don't..you're probably going to be pretty unhappy
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We're no better than the last 2 years though. Our 7-win improvement is due to a very easy schedule as well as luck with having opponents' best players be out due to injury.

Crabbe isn't a good rotation piece. We developed him into a mediocre spot up shooting who can't do anything else. Zach is our only C.J. Nurk counts two but other than those guys' development, we have nothing. And banking on those two guys to develop is risky. They aren't sure-fire prospects.

"We're young". There's a difference between being young in general and having young players with high potential. Harkless is 24, but he is what he is. He's not going to improve. We have many 26-28 year old players (Harkless, Turner, Davis, Aminu) that aren't going to improve anymore, even though they may be considered young. CJ isn't improving, Dame is but don't expect much more from him, he's 27 years old. Nurk and Collins are our only young players that have a chance at being anything special. You have guys like Swanigan and Layman helping keep our average age low instead of them being vets, but they aren't going to develop into anything..

Trust the process works when you're getting top 3 picks and rebuilding around generational talents like Embiid and Ben Simmons. Fultz will be one if he gets his shoulder right and his shot returns to previous form. Our process is nothing like their process.
 
Mediocre Man said:
He's nothing more than a glorified used car salesman.

I've met and talked to Neil a couple of times. He's as phony as they come
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I told everyone this back when he was first hired he is just a former actor who can talk but makes stupid basketball decisions. Years later he is still here only god and Paul Allen know why and nothing has changed.
 
BrianFromWA said:
Um, we all talked about that over the last few months or so, it's not alchemy. Let's all, for a second, acknowledge that that mess was of his making?
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A perennial playoff team, one that even made the 2nd round, is a "mess?"

:crazy:
 
Hernangomez. 4.3 PPG/2.6 RPG! He'd certainly put us over the top.

We'd be paying the LT (even after dumping Noah's salary), which is strategically a bad basketball decision.

Gomez for Ed Davis? That's not making us better at all. I'd rather have Davis.
 
Denny Crane said:
Hernangomez. 4.3 PPG/2.6 RPG! He'd certainly put us over the top.

We'd be paying the LT (even after dumping Noah's salary), which is strategically a bad basketball decision.

Gomez for Ed Davis? That's not making us better at all. I'd rather have Davis.
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C'mon, he specifically said Layman and 2 seconds for Hernangomez. That's a salary-neutral move.
 
Denny Crane said:
A perennial playoff team, one that even made the 2nd round, is a "mess?"

:crazy:
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The only second round appearance that I count is the Houston series, getting past the Clippers was 90% lucky break because of the other team's injuries.

The trajectory this team is on, is very similar to those 80s teams that always managed to just squeak into the playoffs and quickly bow out, but the team could always fall back on, "hey we made it!" and then wash, rinse, repeat year after year. This team looks close to maxed out in terms of potential. Maybe Collins will develop into a quality rotation player, but I don't see a star in the making there, Nurkic has mostly regressed to the same inconsistent guy he was for the Nuggets and I'm sure he can get marginally better over time, but I don't see a star in the making there either, and with the boat-anchor contracts they have in guys like Turner, and Meyers, they are going to have a very difficult time getting better in the next two years, which they absolutely need to do to convince Damian that they aren't just stuck on a treadmill.

This franchise looks like it's painted itself into a corner, and if they are serious about building around Damian and/or CJ before Damian has the power to decide where he'd like to go, it's going to take an incredible stroke of luck in the draft or some miracle trade to get them out of this holding pattern. So while I don't have a crystal ball, it doesn't take a psychic to see where this thing is probably headed (and it isn't to the Conference Finals or beyond).
 
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I really like Neil, but he didn't say what I would have liked him to say. Something like:
We were willing to trade our 2018 1st rounder for several players we had targeted
that were in the rumor mill, but found out that the rumor mill was wrong, they just
weren't available.

Without saying that, we don't know if he values the 1st more than he values improving the team.
 
BrianFromWA said:
Yes. Which well-run organization do you know of that routinely has to take on long-term debt and give away assets for free?
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I hate the term “assets”. Turner is an asset as is Leonard yet if we could give them away for free I’ sure you, as well as the rest of us, would celebrate the move yet the logic you just used says that would be stupid.

Really?

All assets have costs associated with them, the problem is not the asset but rather the net value of the asset and the ROI it provides.

All players present some risk, the Blazers just seem to have a poor asset valuation estimation calculation formula which leads them to acquire assets which too often have a negative net value.
 
He should teach algebra to grammar school kids.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
C'mon, he specifically said Layman and 2 seconds for Hernangomez. That's a salary-neutral move.
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It's not quite salary neutral, but we're more under the LT than I thought so it would fit. Hernangomez would add a net $150K to our payroll.

Assuming the figures we know are accurate.
 
BrianFromWA said:
Yes. Which well-run organization do you know of that routinely has to take on long-term debt and give away assets for free?
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I think there's a decent sized list of players who were "given away for free."

Greg Monroe was just bought out by the Suns. That's worse than for free, no?

The Bulls bought out DWade - gave him away to the Cavs for free. Wade was basically given away to the Heat (for a 2nd round pick).

&c

From what I've seen of NO, his moves are textbook and almost predictable (like trading Vonleh to get under the LT). A lot of GMs do a lot worse.
 
LayneStaley said:
You can only make the playoffs as the 6-8 seed and get blown out in a 5 game series so many times before it doesn’t feel messy.
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Would you rather be out of the playoffs altogether? I wouldn't :)
 
Nikolokolus said:
The only second round appearance that I count is the Houston series, getting past the Clippers was 90% lucky break because of the other team's injuries.

The trajectory this team is on, is very similar to those 80s teams that always managed to just squeak into the playoffs and quickly bow out, but the team could always fall back on, "hey we made it!" and then wash, rinse, repeat year after year. This team looks close to maxed out in terms of potential. Maybe Collins will develop into a quality rotation player, but I don't see a star in the making there, Nurkic has mostly regressed to the same inconsistent guy he was for the Nuggets and I'm sure he can get marginally better over time, but I don't see a star in the making there either, and with the boat-anchor contracts they have in guys like Turner, and Meyers, they are going to have a very difficult time getting better in the next two years, which they absolutely need to do to convince Damian that they aren't just stuck on a treadmill.

This franchise looks like it's painted itself into a corner, and if they are serious about building around Damian and/or CJ before Damian has the power to decide where he'd like to go, it's going to take an incredible stroke of luck in the draft or some miracle trade to get them out of this holding pattern. So while I don't have a crystal ball, it doesn't take a psychic to see where this thing is probably headed (and it isn't to the Conference Finals or beyond).
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The way this team gets into real contention is trading for guys like Nurk (not painted into a corner, case in point) or drafting players who pan out like CJ. That's how it is for every team but one or two (who are likely conference finals or beyond), "painted into corners" or not. It looks to me like there aren't going to be many teams with much cap space this summer (painted into corners).

It also looks to me like there are a lot of teams with contracts they couldn't move. Tyreke Evans wasn't moved. Gasol wasn't moved. The demand for big expiring deals wasn't there this trade deadline, for whatever reasons.

NO collected three 1st round picks and then traded two of them for a better pick (Collins). I don't call that somehow handicapped.

In spite of all the negativity, the Blazers are 8-4 in their last 12 games. It's remarkable how expectations with the beast version of Nurk were so high.

You can't fault NO for not trying, but people will.
 
LayneStaley said:
I would rather spend 3 years in the top 5 of the lottery than 10 years at 14-18 in the lottery.
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Perhaps you are thinking of the Philly model, how ‘bout Nerlens Noel, followed by Okufor and then Embiid? They had to tack on a few more years of pathetic playing to get where they are now - mid-tier.

Not a model I want to emulate.
 
GrandpaBlaze said:
Great! In those three years we can draft Greg Oden, Sam Bowie & Martell Webster.

After those great lottery selections I feel confident we’ll be able to challenge for the title.

Gramps...
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If you don’t feel comfortable with a top 5 pick maybe there needs to be a change at gm? Danny Ainge seems to do ok with lottery picks.
 
You guys are right, spending year after year talking about what 1-3 seed might be easier to take to a game 5 is much better, you win.
 
Denny Crane said:
Zach Collins was drafted #10.
So was CJ.

I don't think 10 years at 14-18 is accurate at all.

Here's a team that spent at least 3 years in the top 5 of the lottery.

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You would rather have our current future than philly? Lol ok

And that 10th pick wasn’t ours, we traded 15 and 20 to get it(we won’t have multiple firsts to do that most years)and then passed on Mitchell. Luckily we made up for it by taking Caleb one pick in front of Kuzma, that was close:)
 
LayneStaley said:
You guys are right, spending year after year talking about what 1-3 seed might be easier to take to a game 5 is much better, you win.
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There aren't any guarantees, is all.

I'd rather try hard as we can to win every game and take our chances. You can talk about our chances, but they actually have to play the games.

We're in year 3 of the rebuild. A rebuild where we were expected to be a horrible team (especially that first season after LMA left). How good are we supposed to be in year 3?

The Celtics in the Stevens era won 25, 40, and 48 games the first three seasons.

The Blazers in the post LMA era won 44, 41, and on pace for 45. Seems pretty close to me. Plus the Blazers are in the much tougher conference.
 
Denny Crane said:
There aren't any guarantees, is all.

I'd rather try hard as we can to win every game and take our chances. You can talk about our chances, but they actually have to play the games.

We're in year 3 of the rebuild. A rebuild where we were expected to be a horrible team (especially that first season after LMA left). How good are we supposed to be in year 3?

The Celtics in the Stevens era won 25, 40, and 48 games the first three seasons.

The Blazers in the post LMA era won 44, 41, and on pace for 45. Seems pretty close to me. Plus the Blazers are in the much tougher conference.
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Did those teams you mention have the 5th highest payroll in the league in year 3 with zero cap flexibility for the foreseeable future?
 
LayneStaley said:
You would rather have our current future than philly? Lol ok

And that 10th pick wasn’t ours, we traded 15 and 20 to get it and then passed on Mitchell. Luckily we made up for it by taking Caleb one pick in front of Kuzma, that was close:)
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The grass isn't always greener.

I think we're better than Philly by quite a bit at this point, and certainly the past few seasons. I wouldn't sell Dame and CJ short - both teams have a "big 2." After Embiid and Simmons, I'm not seeing that tanking and all those high draft picks have been a great success; just a bunch of average players at best.
 
Denny Crane said:
The grass isn't always greener.

I think we're better than Philly by quite a bit at this point, and certainly the past few seasons. I wouldn't sell Dame and CJ short - both teams have a "big 2." After Embiid and Simmons, I'm not seeing that tanking and all those high draft picks have been a great success; just a bunch of average players at best.
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And yet we signed one of their lottery busts to a 17 mil per deal:) we can go round and round, wake me up in 2020 when we can start over again.
 
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