No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insanity:

[DaRizzle]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

OK.

Can you do me a favor? Once you get your awesome burn sig set up...

Can you forward it to me so I can use it as mine too.

OOOO...you edited it!

Well the "youre right" sig is all in good fun. Julius can hold a postion and then change it when presented other facts. Its not a rag on Julius at all. I view it as a compliment to him for being rational on sports boards and a compliment for me because having someone say "you know what, youre right" on a sports form is next to impossible unless you have stats to back it up....but as we can see here obvious stats improvement, in any form, cant do that here

And the other sig in just hilarious and is a great representation of the POR board here after losses. The poster made a joke, i thought it was hilarious.

keep changing the subject......DANCE till you cant dance no more!

 

[OddEnormous]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

Now to try to approach this on a rational level, based on what you have observed of, say, Jerryd Bayless, what exactly leads you to conclude that he has not improved at all this year?

Probably the same things that lead you to conclude that he has improved this year. We just see it differently.

This thread went off the rails re: PER and it's be all end reputation and if it's proof a player has improved.

I honestly don't care if you agree with me or not. But it doesn't convince me as proof. Nor Hollinger.

 

[DaRizzle]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

You think your arguments are rational I do not.

I think mine are, you think they are not.

I'm pretty sure that's been clear since the get go.

At least to me.

gut > stats

4.3 > 9.2pts

36.5% > 42.2%FG


gotcha

 

[Tince]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

Almost all of us know Batum has improved, but that doesn't mean we'll be able to convince everyone he has.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

Probably the same things that lead you to conclude that he has improved this year. We just see it differently.

I never said he has. You have no idea what I think. I only chose him because others in this thread (ie, Darizzle) pointed to him as an example.

This thread went off the rails re: PER and it's be all end reputation and if it's proof a player has improved.

OK--and I'm trying to bring it back "on the rails" by going away from PER, and towards something we can discuss--your observations and interpretations thereof.

I honestly don't care if you agree with me or not. But it doesn't convince me as proof. Nor Hollinger.

Again--I never said anything about PER, so this statement is irrelevant.

Now--can we get back to the question I asked? What have you seen (or not seen) from Jerryd Bayless that leads you to conclude that he has not improved at all this year? And along with that, what do you think you would need to see from him in order to conclude that he had improved?

 

[DaRizzle]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

^lol....nice

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

^lol....nice

Glad you approve.

 

[BGrantFan]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

I don't not put validity into them. Stats are only PART of the story. So is circumstance, so is luck etc etc etc.

On the other side it pops out as opinion.


Please don't put this in as your sig. I'm not sure I could cope with that.

I think you are confusing me with DaRizzle, unless I am the one who is confused.

 

[OddEnormous]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

I never said he has. You have no idea what I think.

:Rolleyes: C'mon man. The point was that my opinion is found the same way yours is.

Now--can we get back to the question I asked? What have you seen (or not seen) from Jerryd Bayless that leads you to conclude that he has not improved at all this year? And along with that, what do you think you would need to see from him in order to conclude that he had improved?

I still thinks he plays like a chicken with his head cut off. In fact I thought he had more composure last year when he had the opportunity to play. Now that could be because he's playing more, so I notice it more. IMO He's playing above his station now and not within himself. He thinks he can do more than he can, etc, etc. etc

I do like that he'll attack the basket because this team does need more of that, I'm just not sure he does it at the correct times. He seems to do this randomly and without reason.

If you and I were sitting in a bar having a few, I'd would probably be interested enough in continuing this conversation. I have no interest however in typing 1000 word posts back and forth about Jarryd Bloody Bayless.

Now, you can either agree or disagree with my assessment and make your own points about Jarryd Bayless and I will read them and take them on, maybe agree with some and scoff at others.

But if you just go:


PER BITCH!!!!!!!

I think you'll know how I respond.

 

[DaRizzle]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

nobody went "PER bitch"...I gladly broke it down for you after the fact....but keep telling your one track mind that

 

[OddEnormous]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

nobody went "PER bitch"...I gladly broke it down for you after the fact....but keep telling your one track mind that

Yoooooooooooou're so vain
I bet you think this posts was about you
You're so vain (You're so VAIN)

I bet you think this post was about you
Don't you
Don't you
Don't you

 

[BGrantFan]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

nobody went "PER bitch"...I gladly broke it down for you after the fact....but keep telling your one track mind that

Well, for what it matters, I agree with your stance, and I think your application of PER to support your stance adds to your observed opinion.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

:Rolleyes: C'mon man. The point was that my opinion is found the same way yours is.

How it was found was never the question. What you based it off of was.

I still thinks he plays like a chicken with his head cut off. In fact I thought he had more composure last year when he had the opportunity to play. Now that could be because he's playing more, so I notice it more. IMO He's playing above his station now and not within himself. He thinks he can do more than he can, etc, etc. etc

First--thanks for answering. I appreciate it.

Second, while I agree that he's often out of control, I'd say that's less the case now than last year. I also think he's developed an understanding that his teammates are also NBA players, and he seems more willing to pass to them rather than consider himself the #1 option. Now, I have some stats that back up my observations, but I'll keep those to myself.

I do like that he'll attack the basket because this team does need more of that, I'm just not sure he does it at the correct times. He seems to do this randomly and without reason.

Here, I can't argue. His "sense of the moment" still needs work, no doubt.

All in all, I see where you're coming from, but I still disagree. The increase in his willingness to trust his teammates is--in my mind--his biggest improvement over last year.

 

[OddEnormous]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

How it was found was never the question. What you based it off of was.
First--thanks for answering. I appreciate it.

Second, while I agree that he's often out of control, I'd say that's less the case now than last year. I also think he's developed an understanding that his teammates are also NBA players, and he seems more willing to pass to them rather than consider himself the #1 option. Now, I have some stats that back up my observations, but I'll keep those to myself.



Here, I can't argue. His "sense of the moment" still needs work, no doubt.

All in all, I see where you're coming from, but I still disagree. The increase in his willingness to trust his teammates is--in my mind--his biggest improvement over last year.

And THAT is how you have a fucking basketball conversation.



Good job everyone!

(Well, not everyone. Just me and this Perry guy.)

 

[BGrantFan]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

And THAT is how you have a fucking basketball conversation.



Good job everyone!

(Well, not everyone. Just me and this Perry guy.)

I'll be sure to add PER BITCH!!!! to my repetoire. It should add to my board cred.

 

[OddEnormous]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

I'll be sure to add PER BITCH!!!! to my repetoire. It should add to my board cred.

Just had it copywritten and bought the URL.

You'll have to pay me now to use it.

 

[BGrantFan]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

Just had it copywritten and bought the URL.

You'll have to pay me now to use it.

Damn it! There goes my first name change!

 

[andalusian]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

You can try PERSlut - he might still try to sue you - but it will take years to resolve!

PERcupine is good too, if a bit more abstract!

 

[DaRizzle]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

Yoooooooooooou're so vain
I bet you think this posts was about you
You're so vain (You're so VAIN)

I bet you think this post was about you
Don't you
Don't you
Don't you

im all for verbal jabs but I am at least adding something of substance with mine...

but I am pretty fucking awesome

 

[BGrantFan]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

You can try PERSlut - he might still try to sue you - but it will take years to resolve!

PERcupine is good too, if a bit more abstract!

I like PERcupine, but I also like PERfectStat.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

And THAT is how you have a fucking basketball conversation.



Good job everyone!

(Well, not everyone. Just me and this Perry guy.)

BTW, mad props for referring to me as Perry. You just went up a notch in my book.

 

[BGrantFan]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

BTW, mad props for referring to me as Perry. You just went up a notch in my book.

Everybody with kids knows who Perry is. It's one of the few shows my kids watch that I actually enjoy.

Now, if you don't have kids...

 

[OddEnormous]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

I like PERcupine, but I also like PERfectStat.

PERsonalAfrontToStats

Is available.

 

[BGrantFan]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

PERsonalAfrontToStats

Is available.

So is PERfectAss.

 

[STOMP]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

BASKETBALL

IS

NOT

A

NUMBERS

GAME

hoops is a numbers game by the definition of how the game is won... exclamations, creative spacing & TEXT IN ALL CAPS don't change things. Many important factors in the game can be measured. Speed is a measured number revealed in the quickness drills... you don't get to the loose balls/contest shots if you're measured to be slow. Guy's who are measured to be mediocre length/size lose battles inside for positioning and boards. I'd rather have the guy who shoots the higher percentage shoot more then the guy who shoots the lower percentage and would favor a strategy that generates higher percentage shots.

numbers reveal a lot of insight into which players are getting it done and how they do it. I'd agree that individual defense isn't really captured by common statistical measures, but the other side of the court is definitely illuminated by stats

STOMP

 

[Tince]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

Who was the poster who always had to get in the last word ,but got banned after things starting getting personal?

 

[MickZagger]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

hoops is a numbers game by the definition of how the game is won... exclamations, creative spacing & TEXT IN ALL CAPS don't change things. Many important factors in the game can be measured. Speed is a measured number revealed in the quickness drills... you don't get to the loose balls/contest shots if you're measured to be slow. Guy's who are measured to be mediocre length/size lose battles inside for positioning and boards. I'd rather have the guy who shoots the higher percentage shoot more then the guy who shoots the lower percentage and would favor a strategy that generates higher percentage shots.

numbers reveal a lot of insight into which players are getting it done and how they do it. I'd agree that individual defense isn't really captured by common statistical measures, but the other side of the court is definitely illuminated by stats

STOMP

A guy like Rodman won rebounding titles by outhustling his opponents to the ball. Sure, he was long, but thats not why he was a great rebounder, he simply wanted it more. I read somewhere that he studied game tape on the rotation of players shots and if they missed where they missed. Dejuan Blair, Chuck Hayes. You can be a good rebounder without being longer or faster than your opponent. Especially in the NBA, where half-assed effort happens on a normal basis.

 

[STOMP]

A guy like Rodman won rebounding titles by outhustling his opponents to the ball. Sure, he was long, but thats not why he was a great rebounder, he simply wanted it more. I read somewhere that he studied game tape on the rotation of players shots and if they missed where they missed. Dejuan Blair, Chuck Hayes. You can be a good rebounder without being longer or faster than your opponent. Especially in the NBA, where half-assed effort happens on a normal basis.

When I referred to length/size in regards to rebounding, Blair and CH's big butts are covered. Of course there are exceptions to every rule/trend and I was speaking in generalities. Of course there are other unmeasurable things that matter too like smarts, coordination, skill, and desire. Dennis was pretty long and absolutely physically ripped which certainly complimented some of his unmeasurable traits. Like the other wide bodies you sited, he focused on the boards in part because he didn't bring some of the other big man skills. If a Big is typically boxing out instead of coming down after contesting a shot they have a better shot at boards. If they are consistently crashing the boards from the weak side instead of trying to establish low post position to score they are going to get more offensive boards. The 0.6 blocks per game DR averaged over his career speaks to his approach on D just as his 7.3 points reflects his focus on the other end.

Not everything is captured in statistical analysis, that hasn't been my stance. Completely discounting the value of stats is what I took issue with.

STOMP

 

[Cake]

Re: No more proof needed than this that McMillan is bordering on Anal Retentive insan

...I usually just zone out until like the middle of the 3rd.

...I can't list a single player on this team that has become a better player this year than they were last year. Not a single one.

So you don't watch the games and you haven't seen any improvement? Amazing.

I guess I won't even try to argue Batum and Oden, who did show clear and obvious improvement to anyone who watches entire games without zoning out.

But you're really going to dismiss Bayless' improvement?

He scores more. He shoots a better percentage. He gets to the line more. He has more assists, more rebounds and far fewer turnovers than last season. All that improvement despite the fact that most of his minutes last year were in garbage time. And most of his minutes this year are meaningful.

And you know...all of that improvement is reflected in PER. It's not that scary. No, it doesn't tell the whole story. But it tells a better story than 'I haven't seen improvement that can't be measured.'

Fernandez is worse this year, I absolutely agree. But I'd guess PER would tell the same story though.