Norm Powell Contract

[blazerkor]

i did look at stats and did know that CJ had the better stats. Gordon is a streaky shooter but can take over a game like CJ. When Harden was out and he started he played decent can get hot.
Yep he’s been injured more for sure.
Ive always felt CJ is a volume shooter which is what many two guards do but his D and lack of getting to the line like he should makes him an average overall guard in today’s league.
Imo, levine is a notch netter than CJ

If that last sentence is that Zach LaVine is a notch better than CJ... I completely agree. The term volume shooter means a guy that gets his points by shooting a ton instead of making a high percentage of their shots. Since CJ makes a high percentage of his shots, he's not a volume shooter. I know he doesn't get to the line enough but despite not getting to the free throw line his efg% is right on par with guys like Harden because CJ is so accurate. So he's the exact opposite of a volume scorer.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

First of all as @B-Roy pointed out, any sign and trade would hard cap us. That being said I wouldn't do that deal. DeRozan can't shoot the ball and he doesn't have the upside or the elite other skills of a Simmons. He's a really good defender and he is good at getting to the hoop and he's a good passer but not elite. So I'd need something more back for him. It's a moot point though because we can't do a sign and trade with our cap situation.

I wasn't talking about this offseason. Mick kinda was. I wouldn't do that deal now since it will hard cap us as you said.

I was just mentioning this was talked about 4 years ago and people were crucified on this board. If we could go back in time, we should have done that deal.

 

[Hoopguru]

If that last sentence is that Zach LaVine is a notch better than CJ... I completely agree. The term volume shooter means a guy that gets his points by shooting a ton instead of making a high percentage of their shots. Since CJ makes a high percentage of his shots, he's not a volume shooter. I know he doesn't get to the line enough but despite not getting to the free throw line his efg% is right on par with guys like Harden because CJ is so accurate. So he's the exact opposite of a volume scorer.

Good points, but another trait of a volume shooter is they go iso a lot and can take wild shots.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

Here is a Derozan for CJ thread I found from years ago. Hilarious to read.

http://www.sportstwo.com/threads/would-you-would-they-trade-offer-thread.287229/#post-3670682

 

[blazerkor]

Good points, but another trait of a volume shooter is they go iso a lot and can take wild shots.

Oh, I think the term ball hog is very fitting for CJ. I can't stand CJ on 5 or MeJ ball. That being said, teams like the Sixers and Knicks need a guy who wants to take over when perimeter scoring is needed.

 

[B-Roy]

I wonder if Norm has some more upside even at age 28. He's improved almost every year he's been in the league and we know he has an awesome work ethic. I think he could reach fringe-all-star status ie. Tobias Harris/Prime Rudy Gay/CJ McCollum types...

 

[blazerkor]

I wonder if Norm has some more upside even at age 28. He's improved almost every year he's been in the league and we know he has an awesome work ethic. I think he could reach fringe-all-star status ie. Tobias Harris/Prime Rudy Gay/CJ McCollum types...

I think if CJ were traded, Norm would be seeing more touches than he ever has before and be back to guarding players his size. So while I don't know if he improves his game a ton at 28, he may be given the opportunity to shine in a way that puts him in the same light as a Prime Rudy Gay... I like that comp because Rudy was seen as a real two way player.

 

[blazerkor]

If this Norm thing doesn't go our way... I'm sorry but I'll be insufferable for many of you. I'm not telling you to put me on ignore now but if Norm walks for nothing, I will start advocating that we start the rebuild now and not wait for the league to know that Dame has requested the trade.

Don't get me wrong if Dame wants to stay even though the roster is going the opposite way he just demanded it go, I'll still want him here. He's my favorite player of all time. I also think that if we could get a trade for Simmons done with CJ and a shitload of draft capital... a starting lineup of Dame, Ant, Simmons, RoCo and Boucher (acquired by trading Nurk) would be a good start to a team that would contend in a couple years if Simmons takes his game to the next level.

That being said, if behind closed doors Dame says it looks like he'll want to be moved before next season, I would want to tear it all down and start over as soon as possible. Oh, I hope Norm re-signs with us... it's a big deal.

 

[illmatic99]

If this Norm thing doesn't go our way... I'm sorry but I'll be insufferable for many of you. I'm not telling you to put me on ignore now but if Norm walks for nothing, I will start advocating that we start the rebuild now and not wait for the league to know that Dame has requested the trade.

Don't get me wrong if Dame wants to stay even though the roster is going the opposite way he just demanded it go, I'll still want him here. He's my favorite player of all time. I also think that if we could get a trade for Simmons done with CJ and a shitload of draft capital... a starting lineup of Dame, Ant, Simmons, RoCo and Boucher (acquired by trading Nurk) would be a good start to a team that would contend in a couple years if Simmons takes his game to the next level.

That being said, if behind closed doors he says it looks like he'll want to be moved before next season, I would want to tear it all down and start over as soon as possible. Oh, I hope Norm re-signs with us... it's a big deal.

it's bad but not THAT dire. we get possibly the full MLE and get forced into trading for improvement.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

If this Norm thing doesn't go our way... I'm sorry but I'll be insufferable for many of you. I'm not telling you to put me on ignore now but if Norm walks for nothing, I will start advocating that we start the rebuild now and not wait for the league to know that Dame has requested the trade.

Don't get me wrong if Dame wants to stay even though the roster is going the opposite way he just demanded it go, I'll still want him here. He's my favorite player of all time. I also think that if we could get a trade for Simmons done with CJ and a shitload of draft capital... a starting lineup of Dame, Ant, Simmons, RoCo and Boucher (acquired by trading Nurk) would be a good start to a team that would contend in a couple years if Simmons takes his game to the next level.

That being said, if behind closed doors Dame says it looks like he'll want to be moved before next season, I would want to tear it all down and start over as soon as possible. Oh, I hope Norm re-signs with us... it's a big deal.

I'm with you. Losing Norman is unacceptable. If we are going to start next season off worse, tear it down and bring on the ping pong balls.

 

[blazerkor]

it's bad but not THAT dire. we get possibly the full MLE and get forced into trading for improvement.

Norm leaving would be a big loss. It only seems logical that if he analyzes the situation after Norm walked, that Dame would conclude that the team could not meet what he is requiring and would ask to be traded upon his return to the states but that's just how it seems to me. The fact is that there's still a great chance Norm re-signs and that will inject some more hope into our team's situation.

 

[Haakzilla]

If this Norm thing doesn't go our way... I'm sorry but I'll be insufferable for many of you. I'm not telling you to put me on ignore now but if Norm walks for nothing, I will start advocating that we start the rebuild now and not wait for the league to know that Dame has requested the trade.

Don't get me wrong if Dame wants to stay even though the roster is going the opposite way he just demanded it go, I'll still want him here. He's my favorite player of all time. I also think that if we could get a trade for Simmons done with CJ and a shitload of draft capital... a starting lineup of Dame, Ant, Simmons, RoCo and Boucher (acquired by trading Nurk) would be a good start to a team that would contend in a couple years if Simmons takes his game to the next level.

That being said, if behind closed doors Dame says it looks like he'll want to be moved before next season, I would want to tear it all down and start over as soon as possible. Oh, I hope Norm re-signs with us... it's a big deal.

...to be fair, simply trading Dame would net more than enough for the current roster continue the status quo -- and even "improve" overall. I don't think a total rebuild would be necessary, just saying

 

[blazerkor]

...to be fair, simply trading Dame would net more than enough for the current roster continue the status quo -- and even "improve" overall. I don't think a total rebuild would be necessary, just saying

I'm not at all interested in continuing what this team's status quo has been over the last nine years. I'm not saying I just want draft picks for Dame... I saw a trade proposal from a Pelicans blogger that said Ingram, Hayes (obviously he'll have avoid incarceration) and picks. Then I think CJ, RoCo and the Pelicans picks would get us Simmons. I'd auction off Nurk to the highest bidder for a young player and some picks. Then I'd sign a bunch of GLeaguers and undrafted free agents to see if we can hit on one.

Starting Ant, Ingram, Simmons, Hayes and whoever can shoot the best from three between Nas and DJJ while playing a bunch of hungry kids off the bench sounds fun. Ingram and Simmons could be an all nba duo for a long time.

 

[B-Roy]

 

[riverman]

Mostly agree with your list but FVV is better than Powell. Substantially better.

not on defense at all...he's a better scorer but not a better defender...Powell is substantially better on that side of the ball from what I've seen....FVV is also a really small guard

 

[illmatic99]

Hollinger said Norm is coming back, but Fischer says this: https://bleacherreport.com/articles...owry-demar-derozan-emerge-as-pivotal-dominoes

Norman Powell's free agency has also generated significant chatter around the NBA. Portland officials and executives across the league took note of Detroit's maneuvering over the weekend, which allowed the Pistons to clear upward of $20.2 million in space. That could present an opportunity for Powell to reunite with his former head coach Dwane Casey—ditto for a scenario where DeRozan signs with Detroit. But the Trail Blazers losing out on Powell would hold critical ramifications for their quest to refortify their roster around Damian Lillard.

 

[julius]

not on defense at all...he's a better scorer but not a better defender...Powell is substantially better on that side of the ball from what I've seen....FVV is also a really small guard

I'm not so sure he's better offensively either. FVV shot 39% from the floor. That significantly worse than Powell.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Three questions:
1. Would a sign-and-trade of Norm Powell for DeMar Derozan be even possible? (Or can you only do that with ONE team signing their free agent?)
2. If it WAS possible, would the Spurs do it?
3. Would we want to do it? It would give us a kind of "big three", but none of them much known for his defense.

 

[RR7]

Three questions:
1. Would a sign-and-trade of Norm Powell for DeMar Derozan be even possible? (Or can you only do that with ONE team signing their free agent?)
2. If it WAS possible, would the Spurs do it?
3. Would we want to do it? It would give us a kind of "big three", but none of them much known for his defense.

S&Ting for Derozan would hard cap us.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Three questions:
1. Would a sign-and-trade of Norm Powell for DeMar Derozan be even possible? (Or can you only do that with ONE team signing their free agent?)

IIRC, when GSW and BRK swapped Durant and Russell, both players were signed and traded.

That said, @RR7 is correct, and I don't think we would want to go that route.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Three questions:
1. Would a sign-and-trade of Norm Powell for DeMar Derozan be even possible? (Or can you only do that with ONE team signing their free agent?)
2. If it WAS possible, would the Spurs do it?
3. Would we want to do it? It would give us a kind of "big three", but none of them much known for his defense.

Same questions for Will Barton.

Also, please explain "hard cap" like I'm 5.

Googling tells me this much - feel free to add:
What Happens When a Team is Hard Capped:

If a team does one of the above three things, they cannot have a team salary above the “apron” which is always exactly $4 million above the luxury tax line at any point during the remainder that league year (which turns over July 1). Unlike the soft cap, these teams cannot exceed this line for any reason even if they have exceptions or hardship. The league will reject any move that could potentially take them over the line.

 

[RR7]

Same questions for Will Barton.

Also, please explain "hard cap" like I'm 5.

If we add a player in a S&T, we can absolutely not spend any $$ over the hard cap amount. I think it's ~143 million.

 

[B-Roy]

Same questions for Will Barton.

Also, please explain "hard cap" like I'm 5.

Googling tells me this much - feel free to add:
What Happens When a Team is Hard Capped:

If a team does one of the above three things, they cannot have a team salary above the “apron” which is always exactly $4 million above the luxury tax line at any point during the remainder that league year (which turns over July 1). Unlike the soft cap, these teams cannot exceed this line for any reason even if they have exceptions or hardship. The league will reject any move that could potentially take them over the line.

A team that returns a player in a S&T is "hard-capped". There are many other things a team can do that can "hard-cap" them, such as using the full MLE, or using the BAE.

But getting hard-capped enforces a (as the name suggests) hard salary limit at the tax apron, which is around 143M. The Blazers already have 115M guaranteed money tied to 8 players. Taking in a S&T for a 20M+ player would put us at 135, with roughly 8 million left to fill 5 roster spots. It would be tough, and also makes you go into the season with less flexibility.

Also, a Powell S&Ts is extremely unlikely because he would be subject to the base year compensation rule. If a player not coming off a rookie scale contract is used in a S&T, and his new salary is at least 20% greater than his current salary, then for salary matching purposes he will count as his old salary (10.6M) for his old team, and his new salary for his new team (~20M-ish). Making salary matching extremely difficult. A S&T with Powell for Derozan is probably easy for salary matching purposes since San Antonio is under the cap, but unless Derozan signs for like 10M/Year, Blazers getting hard-capped is a non-starter, IMO.

 

[illmatic99]

Also, a Powell S&Ts is extremely unlikely because he would be subject to the base year compensation rule. If a player not coming off a rookie scale contract is used in a S&T, and his new salary is at least 20% greater than his current salary, then for salary matching purposes he will count as his old salary (10.6M) for his old team, and his new salary for his new team (~20M-ish). Making salary matching extremely difficult. A S&T with Powell for Derozan is probably easy for salary matching purposes since San Antonio is under the cap, but unless Derozan signs for like 10M/Year, Blazers getting hard-capped is a non-starter, IMO.

Is Powell for Thad Young possible? Young is at 14 mil for 21-22. Not sure of Chicago's potential interest in Powell, but I would love Young as a PF as a far better fit for us, allowing us to slot Roco at SF then.

 

[Blazinaway]

Is Powell for Thad Young possible? Young is at 14 mil for 21-22.

Lets hope no, yuck on Thad

 

[illmatic99]

Lets hope no, yuck on Thad

uh dude has reinvented himself as a playmaking 4. His ast% rivaled Sabonis'. Check his numbers. Maybe you're thinking the old Thad Young.

 

[B-Roy]

Is Powell for Thad Young possible? Young is at 14 mil for 21-22. Not sure of Chicago's potential interest in Powell, but I would love Young as a PF as a far better fit for us, allowing us to slot Roco at SF then.

Chicago is under the cap, so I think they can absorb the difference. Problem is they seem to want to use that cap to sign Ball or some other FA. They can also theoretically just clear enough space to sign Powell outright.

But either way, even though I like Thad, Powell is better. Thad is 33 and a non shooter. We would be getting significantly worse in that deal, IMO.

 

[illmatic99]

Chicago is under the cap, so I think they can absorb the difference. Problem is they seem to want to use that cap to sign Ball or some other FA. They can also theoretically just clear enough space to sign Powell outright.

But either way, even though I like Thad, Powell is better. Thad is 33 and a non shooter. We would be getting significantly worse in that deal, IMO.

Ya, the worry is that they can sign Norm outright, but they would still need to clear some space to do so. There was talk yesterday of them trying to move Sato/Young to open room for Ball. From my twitter stalking and all the tea leaves/rumors, I think Ball to CHI is a done deal, but you never know for sure.

Powell is a better player than Young in a vacuum, but is throttled next to CJ. And we don't seem to be in the mindset of wanting to CJ anytime soon. I think from the team-building perspective, having a playmaking 4 who can potentially switch on defense 3-5 is better than our dumbass three guard lineup.

 

[Blazinaway]

uh dude has reinvented himself as a playmaking 4. His ast% rivaled Sabonis'. Check his numbers. Maybe you're thinking the old Thad Young.

"old" is the operative word, for me at 33 he is too old unless he came very cheap

 

[illmatic99]

"old" is the operative word, for me at 33 he is too old unless he came very cheap

too old? a 35 yr old PJ Tucker averaged 30 mpg in the playoffs this year. Young would be a role player averaging about 25-30 mpg on this team and I'll maintain that he'd be a great fit.