OFFICIAL Around The NBA Thread...... August

[handiman]

Damn it! I wish he wasn't playing for the Pelicans. Now, I'm actually pulling for the guy to have a bounce back season.

BNM

Makes ya wonder why no one else paid attention enough to give him a shot...

 

[Boob-No-More]

Makes ya wonder why no one else paid attention enough to give him a shot...

Yeah, I'm just glad he didn't end up somewhere like OKC.

NOP seems like a good fit for him. Because Anthony Davis is just so damn good and versatile, Jahlil could end up backing up both front court positions. He can be the back up 5 next to Mirotic. Not the greatest defensive pairing, but very potent on offense with Mitotic spreading the floor and knocking down 3s while Jahlil operates inside. Bring Davis back in for Mirotic and he also has the ability to play the 4 and can also erase some of Jahlil's mistakes on the defensive end.

He definitely seems to be working hard. Getting cut by by the Nets must have been a wake up call.

BNM

 

[riverman]

Except that Rodman was a fairly awful defender with the Bulls. He was living on his Pistons reputation at that point... Tremendous rebounder, possibly the biggest offensive negative in league history (he literally hid from the ball), and very lazy defender much of the time. Chicago's team defense was so good, Rodman got a free pass for leaving his man open to get in rebounding position.

Swap Horace Grant back in for Rodman, and that second 3-peat team would have been sooooo much better, yet Rodman's lasting reputation would indicate just the opposite.

Dennis Rodman won defensive player of the year twice in his career....Ben Wallace won it twice in his career...both were stellar defenders...don't know where you get lazy from that but..hey….to each his own.Both guys we're undersized and had an uncanny knack for the ball...tough defenders...neither could shoot a midrange jumper or would even look to...Rodman was also an exceptional passer.

 

[Labinot41]

I wish we had seen a Transformation picture from swanigan..

 

[THE HCP]

I wish we had seen a Transformation picture from swanigan..

Have you not seen pics of him when he was younger? I sometimes wonder if you get the ENTIRE internet in whatever foreign land you live in.

 

[Labinot41]

Have you not seen pics of him when he was younger? I sometimes wonder if you get the ENTIRE internet in whatever foreign land you live in.

Yes i saw it, i also saw that he looked in worse shape this year in Summer League than he was last year bro

 

[handiman]

Dennis Rodman won defensive player of the year twice in his career....Ben Wallace won it twice in his career...both were stellar defenders...don't know where you get lazy from that but..hey….to each his own.Both guys we're undersized and had an uncanny knack for the ball...tough defenders...neither could shoot a midrange jumper or would even look to...Rodman was also an exceptional passer.

You must have missed where I said, "Except that Rodman was a fairly awful defender with the Bulls. He was living on his Pistons reputation at that point..." He was DPOY in '89-90 and '90-91, early in his Pistons career and long before his tenure with the Bulls.

I don't fault you, though. Most people are more heavily influenced by what they're told than what they see.

 

[riverman]

You must have missed where I said, "Except that Rodman was a fairly awful defender with the Bulls. He was living on his Pistons reputation at that point..." He was DPOY in '89-90 and '90-91, early in his Pistons career and long before his tenure with the Bulls.

I don't fault you, though. Most people are more heavily influenced by what they're told than what they see.

nonsense...I watched him play for the Bulls and he was an excellent defender....you must not have liked his hair I guess...or his personality...on the court he was a great defender....just ask Karl Malone...he was the bad boy of the league though...just like Sheed became...both were exceptional defenders...both had a bad boy tag that in the media defined their personalities but had nothing to do really with their basketball skills...I'd say if anything you were referencing his media persona and ignoring his actual basketball skills and I'm someone who was never a Bulls fan

 

[riverman]

Yes i saw it, i also saw that he looked in worse shape this year in Summer League than he was last year bro

His lower core seemed much stronger this summer league...legs were much stronger...I don't see anything in the kid that says....bad shape at all.

 

[Propagandist]

His lower core seemed much stronger this summer league...legs were much stronger...I don't see anything in the kid that says....bad shape at all.

Man, you love you some scrubs. It's adorable!

 

[riverman]

Man, you love you some scrubs. It's adorable!

I like Swanigan.....for a second year big, he's got a lot of skills ….let's say that Man you hate Swanigan and just leave it at that....he's not a starter...we're not talking about a rookie Anthony Davis here but please..don't get carried away with some Olshey draft angst...

 

[Propagandist]

I like Swanigan.....for a second year big, he's got a lot of skills ….let's say that Man you hate Swanigan and just leave it at that....he's not a starter...we're not talking about a rookie Anthony Davis here but please..don't get carried away with some Olshey draft angst...

I'm being serious. You seem to really like the end of the bench guys like Swanigan and Layman. You're optimism has singlehandedly silenced both my criticism and my pessimism: time will tell.

As to Olshey draft angst...I that ain't me. What I don't like is Olshey's face.

 

[Labinot41]

Olshey is great at drafting, but C'mon guys let's be realistic, he fucked up that Pick by selecting Swanigan

 

[Chris Craig]

Olshey is great at drafting, but C'mon guys let's be realistic, he fucked up that Pick by selecting Swanigan

He did

 

[riverman]

I'm being serious. You seem to really like the end of the bench guys like Swanigan and Layman. You're optimism has singlehandedly silenced both my criticism and my pessimism: time will tell.

As to Olshey draft angst...I that ain't me. What I don't like is Olshey's face.

This season Layman and Swanigan will not be those end of the bench guys...in my view both are poised to make a big leap this season...with Ed gone...Biggie will get some court time. I never go into a season with all this doubt about former end of the bench players...if they can't crack the rotation, they will lose the opportunity...training camp should be competitive for rotation spots..

 

[THE HCP]

Yes i saw it, i also saw that he looked in worse shape this year in Summer League than he was last year bro

I’m not your bro Euro guy.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Olshey is great at drafting, but C'mon guys let's be realistic, he fucked up that Pick by selecting Swanigan

Sure he did - in hindsight, but if we're being realistic the draft is a crap shoot. It's not an exact science, especially when picking late in the 1st round. Hell, in most drafts, there are more bad picks than good picks when picking in the lottery.

Sure - in hindsight, Kuzma is a much better player than Swanigan, but there were reasons Kuzma was available at 27. It's not like the Blazers were the only ones who passed on him. It just looks worse because he was picked immediately after Swanigan. There were all kinds of concerns about Kuzma's work ethic and attitude. He hadn't exactly distinguished himself in 3 years at Utah.

Swanigan had no doubts about his work ethic. It was already something of legend. In addition to the well documented weight loss, in his two years at Purdue, Swanigan went from backup to the best player on his team to a 1st team All American.

And then there is the age thing. Not only is Kuzma two years older than Swanigan, he's actually older than Noah Vonleh (it seems impossible that Vonleh still isn't 23).

Swanigan was viewed as a safer pick. Not someone who would ever be an all star, or even a starter, but a guy who would work his way into the rotation just with his hustle and rebouding. Kuzma was viewed as a high risk with little upside. In hindsight, Kuzma was the far better pick. That's just the way it happens sometimes.

I'm more interested in how our 10th pick works out. He's shown great potential at the defensive end, but has a LONG way to go at the offensive end. We all know that and I think he does, too. So, gosh darn it, get that young man a proven big man coach to help him reach his full potential. As a bonus, a proven big man coach might help teach Swanigan how to get his shot off against NBA big men, as that seems to be his biggest weakness.

BNM

 

[BonesJones]

Lol

You must have missed where I said, "Except that Rodman was a fairly awful defender with the Bulls. He was living on his Pistons reputation at that point..." He was DPOY in '89-90 and '90-91, early in his Pistons career and long before his tenure with the Bulls.

I don't fault you, though. Most people are more heavily influenced by what they're told than what they see.

Had a DBPM of over 3 for the Bulls in all 3 seasons, so what exactly did you "see"?

 

[Labinot41]

I’m not your bro Euro guy.

Why so aggressive? I thought you are a cool guy

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I have to assume this is fake, but kinda wish it wasn't:

 

[Labinot41]

I have to assume this is fake, but kinda wish it wasn't:

It's not a Fake. The carmelo Anthony Account who said fuck you has over 6 Million follower

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Sure - in hindsight, Kuzma is a much better player than Swanigan,

I'm going to be a super-optimist and say that it's too early to say that. I happen to think that Kuzma isn't going to sustain his play, and that it's all on offense anyway. Some players have their best years in their rookie years, and I'm betting he's one of them.
Meanwhile, I think everyone here is way too down on Swanigan. Shit, he must be doing something right that we've done so well in Summer League with him as the featured player two years' running. I think he does things to help the team even when he's struggling (his passing and general unselfishness is underrated). He's a bit of a victim of over-inflated expectations after his first Summer League, and then ended up getting very little PT under Stotts. Maybe letting Ed go was partly Olshey's desire to force Stotts to play him?
Any way, we'll see. He has glaring current weaknesses - getting his shot off and defense (other than maybe in the post), but he's still got a solid jump shot, he moves the ball well, and he hustles like crazy.

 

[SheedSoNasty]

I think that Jordan Bell was the overwhelming favorite on the board with that pick. Yes, most slept on Kuzma, including Neil and many other GM’s, but most people here were not happy with the Swanigan pick.

 

[handiman]

Lol
Had a DBPM of over 3 for the Bulls in all 3 seasons, so what exactly did you "see"?

I already answered that. He routinely left his man to get in rebounding position, favoring the measurable stat over hard-to-quantify defense. Chicago's team defense was good enough to allow him to do that, which lets him off the hook in the stats department.

Go back and watch full games, if you can, of his time with Detroit and Chicago. You'll see a vastly inferior defender in the latter years.

I was a Bulls fan whenever they weren't playing the Blazers. I had no reason to root against Rodman.

 

[BonesJones]

I'm going to be a super-optimist and say that it's too early to say that. I happen to think that Kuzma isn't going to sustain his play, and that it's all on offense anyway. Some players have their best years in their rookie years, and I'm betting he's one of them.
Meanwhile, I think everyone here is way too down on Swanigan. Shit, he must be doing something right that we've done so well in Summer League with him as the featured player two years' running. I think he does things to help the team even when he's struggling (his passing and general unselfishness is underrated). He's a bit of a victim of over-inflated expectations after his first Summer League, and then ended up getting very little PT under Stotts. Maybe letting Ed go was partly Olshey's desire to force Stotts to play him?
Any way, we'll see. He has glaring current weaknesses - getting his shot off and defense (other than maybe in the post), but he's still got a solid jump shot, he moves the ball well, and he hustles like crazy.

So he must be an NBA player because he's won games in Summer League? If he's struggling on offense and defense he still helps the team because he's unselfish?

He's not a victim of overinflated expectations. A lot of people who pointed out why they don't like him as a player are still observing those very same things.

Letting Ed go was to open up minutes for Collins.

Not being able to get shots off and being poor defender is pretty damning.

All of us want him to succeed, however it's split on people really searching hard for enough positives to justify the pick, and the people that predicted these problems for him before he was drafted.

 

[BonesJones]

I already answered that. He routinely left his man to get in rebounding position, favoring the measurable stat over hard-to-quantify defense. Chicago's team defense was good enough to allow him to do that, which lets him off the hook in the stats department.

Go back and watch full games, if you can, of his time with Detroit and Chicago. You'll see a vastly inferior defender in the latter years.

I was a Bulls fan whenever they weren't playing the Blazers. I had no reason to root against Rodman.

He had similar numbers before and after Chicago, then why are advanced stats so much in his favor in other places, if team performance is the only reason?

 

[riverman]

Bigs in their second season who spent half the first season in the minors haven't garnered the experience of playing against vet competition night in and night out...Swanigan is just a second year big....sets good screens...hustles...rebounds...passes well...can shoot...people just see that he's not a dunker ...his game isn't playing above the rim and once he gets some burn against quality NBA bigs he'll start to figure out how to adjust. He's already a really good rebounder. He's not going to be Sheed but he could become Kurt Thomas or even Zbo..people forget how young he is. This is a big season for Swanigan...he has an opportunity to earn minutes. I don't know how anybody can count him out in the few NBA minutes he's played so far. Small sample size....without Ed he'll get a shot...we'll see what he does with it. As far as being an NBA player..he is an NBA player. Just a young inexperienced one so far who plays hard when given a chance. I wanted Jordan Bell in that draft but that's because I've seen Bell play live and loved his game...I didn't know who Swanigan was until we drafted him...I'm not throwing him under the bus though...if that happens he'll have to show me he isn't a rotation player...so far nobody has that knowledge yet..all speculation at this point.

 

[handiman]

He had similar numbers before and after Chicago, then why are advanced stats so much in his favor in other places, if team performance is the only reason?

By similar numbers, you mean offensive and rebounding, I assume? He was an all-time great rebounder and an all-time sucky offensive player, so yeah, I wouldn't expect the measurables to change much.

And "before and after Chicago" must mean before and during? Because Rodman basically didn't play after Chicago.

You were born around the time he played in Chicago, if I'm not mistaken? You really need to watch full games (not highlights, not stats) of him during that period to understand how he played on defense. That team made lots of defensive zeroes "look" pretty good on that end of the court.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

By similar numbers, you mean offensive and rebounding, I assume? He was an all-time great rebounder and an all-time sucky offensive player, so yeah, I wouldn't expect the measurables to change much.

And "before and after Chicago" must mean before and during? Because Rodman basically didn't play after Chicago.

You were born around the time he played in Chicago, if I'm not mistaken? You really need to watch full games (not highlights, not stats) of him during that period to understand how he played on defense. That team made lots of defensive zeroes "look" pretty good on that end of the court.

That doesn’t make much sense... That team had “lots” of defensive zeroes, but made them look good. How does that add up? Scottie and MJ played defense for 5?
I know this will come across snarky, but I just don’t get your comment. A bunch of defensive zeroes all looked good on defense...

 

[BonesJones]

By similar numbers, you mean offensive and rebounding, I assume? He was an all-time great rebounder and an all-time sucky offensive player, so yeah, I wouldn't expect the measurables to change much.

And "before and after Chicago" must mean before and during? Because Rodman basically didn't play after Chicago.

You were born around the time he played in Chicago, if I'm not mistaken? You really need to watch full games (not highlights, not stats) of him during that period to understand how he played on defense. That team made lots of defensive zeroes "look" pretty good on that end of the court.

Yeah, I'm sure your 25-year old eye test is flawless compared to statistical analysis.

You realize BPM takes into account team performance? So you're one reason to try to invalidate it doesn't hold up.