Payton Believes Stockton Was Tougher To Guard Than Jordan...Interesting read

[BigGameDamian]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--gary-payton-might-cry-at-hall-of-fame-induction-202019084.html

Gary Payton believed John Stockton was the toughest player for him to guard, and that includes defending Michael Jordan.

When asked about defending Jordan, Payton said: "Those battles were a little easier. I would have Jordan get mad at me and go back at me. He knew he was really talented and could do whatever he wanted to. But [Stockton] was more of a challenge to me than guarding someone that would talk back to me. When you talk back to me and say something to me it made my game go to another level. John was one who wouldn't say nothing and you couldn't figure him out. He'd keep going in the pick and rolls and he and Karl Malone would score a big bucket. At times I would guard Jordan and get him mad and into other things."

Payton feels he was better than Stockton, but he concedes that the former Utah Jazz guard had a remarkable basketball IQ.

"I really think I was better as an athlete and in everything all-around," Payton said. "But he was just a smarter basketball player than us. He just got it done. I do think I was a better basketball player. I can do more things skills-wise. He just showed he knew how to play the game and that was the biggest difference."

 

[dviss1]

I can see why GP feels that way. When guarding Stockton in Sloan's offense, a defender would have to dodge multiple picks from Karl Malone and other huge screen setters. Guarding Jordan means you would have to mainly worry about playing on the ball D. And that was probably the best part of Payton's game.

 

[mook]

Interesting that Payton doesn't really consider shooting in talking about Stockton. Stockton had more than IQ and tenacity--he had 7 seasons where he hit over 40% from three point range.

Payton was the better athlete (and it ain't even close) but I think overestimates the skillset comparison. Payton was a better on-ball defender and scorer, but Stockton was the better passer and shooter. I miss watching those two guys going head-to-head.

 

[Masbee]

John Stockton is probably the most underrated player in NBA history.

Rock solid fundamentals - dribble, pass, shoot.

Tough as nails, good defender, excellent court vision and high game IQ.

He put that all together in a package that made him one of the greatest ever, despite being greatly outmatched in physicality and athleticism.

The real key was his jump shot. Once he dialed in his NBA jumper mid range shot (after about 4 seasons), that shot was complete money. When he was open, he hit around 60%. He also added a 3pt shot that he didn't have before. So, defending him was a nightmare. And he used that money jumper to set up the pass.

Stockton shot 47% his rookie season, 57% 4th season (career high) and 51% for his career. He ended up 38% career 3pt shooter.

Damian Lillard already has a very nice jump shot, and he already has 3pt range with accuracy - 38% rookie year. He only shot 43% his rookie year, but took a lot of 3 pointers, so his eFG% was 50%, compared to rookie Stockton of 47%. So Damian compares well to Stockton during their rookie years. But, Stockton made a BIG improvement in his shooting his first several seasons. He went from a good shooter to a great one.

If Damian wants to be great he needs to add some sort of floater so he can finish in the paint when he penetrates without having to go all the way to the rim and he needs to be very accurate with his mid-range jumper. Every time a defender tries to go under that should be a bucket.

 

[HailBlazers]

John Stockton is probably the most underrated player in NBA history.

Rock solid fundamentals - dribble, pass, shoot.

Tough as nails, good defender, excellent court vision and high game IQ.

He put that all together in a package that made him one of the greatest ever, despite being greatly outmatched in physicality and athleticism.

The real key was his jump shot. Once he dialed in his NBA jumper mid range shot (after about 4 seasons), that shot was complete money. When he was open, he hit around 60%. He also added a 3pt shot that he didn't have before. So, defending him was a nightmare. And he used that money jumper to set up the pass.

Stockton shot 47% his rookie season, 57% 4th season (career high) and 51% for his career. He ended up 38% career 3pt shooter.

Damian Lillard already has a very nice jump shot, and he already has 3pt range with accuracy - 38% rookie year. He only shot 43% his rookie year, but took a lot of 3 pointers, so his eFG% was 50%, compared to rookie Stockton of 47%. So Damian compares well to Stockton during their rookie years. But, Stockton made a BIG improvement in his shooting his first several seasons. He went from a good shooter to a great one.

If Damian wants to be great he needs to add some sort of floater so he can finish in the paint when he penetrates without having to go all the way to the rim and he needs to be very accurate with his mid-range jumper. Every time a defender tries to go under that should be a bucket.

Monee...Masbee

 

[KingSpeed]

Stockton is the All Time leader in assists and steals. How amazing is that?

 

[magnifier661]

What I liked about Stockton was he didn't chase a ring and retired with the team that drafted him. I loved watching the battles between Porter and Stockton. I remember one play were Clyde poked stockton in the eye and it changed the momentum of the game.

The assists and steals are great, but I loved how "Iron Man" he was. The dude didn't miss hardly any games for most his career. He was to be counted on!

 

[mook]

The assists and steals are great, but I loved how "Iron Man" he was. The dude didn't miss hardly any games for most his career. He was to be counted on!

I respect the iron man aspect, but if that was his most memorable trait he'd be another Andre Miller.

It was the shooting and defense that elevated him above that reasonably good benchmark. That and his amazing longevity.

People forget that in his final season at age 40 he had a PER of 21.0, which was basically what he had from age 33 and on. He was an All Star at age 38. I wish he'd kept playing longer. He could have had a significant role on a team at 45.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Steals Leader, and it's not even close:
http://espn.go.com/nba/history/leaders/_/stat/steals

Assists Leader, and it's not even close:
http://espn.go.com/nba/history/leaders/_/stat/assists

It's very possible neither of these records will ever be broken.

I used to say the Dream Team was John Stockton and 11 hot dogs. My favorite Stockton story occurred off the court. He was in Spain for the '92 Olympics with a video camera asking random people if they'd seen any of the Dream Teamers. They had no idea that he was one, even after the interview because he doesn't look like a stereotypical basketball player let alone Dream Teamer. Funny stuff, I'd love to see some of it on youtube!

edit: found a link which talks about the video incident:
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/01/23/s...assuming-unmatched.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

 

[Boob-No-More]

The guy posted PER +> 21.0 SIXTEEN years in a row! That's just insane. And the .515 career FG% is off the charts for a guard, especially one who shot a significant number of 3-pointers. He even led the league in TS% 3 times. That's a stat that is usually dominated by big men (Steve Nash did it twice, Reggie Miller did it twice, but Stockton is the only guard to do it 3 times). And then there are the 15,000+ career assists and 3200+ career steals...

Amazing player, amazing career. Glad one of his contemporaries recognizes his greatness.

BNM

 

[dviss1]

True story, I'm at a ref camp at Gonzaga. Girls High School basketball. I warned this #12 in White to keep her elbows in while setting picks. I look over to the left and on the bench is the all time steals/assist leader. I realized at that moment I was reffing Stockton's daughter. I ended up reffing 3 games of hers. Fellas, she plays EXACTLY like him. Illegal screens and all.

 

[HailBlazers]

True story, I'm at a ref camp at Gonzaga. Girls High School basketball. I warned this #12 in White to keep her elbows in while setting picks. I look over to the left and on the bench is the all time steals/assist leader. I realized at that moment I was reffing Stockton's daughter. I ended up reffing 3 games of hers. Fellas, she plays EXACTLY like him. Illegal screens and all.

lol, good story.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Steals Leader, and it's not even close:
http://espn.go.com/nba/history/leaders/_/stat/steals

Assists Leader, and it's not even close:
http://espn.go.com/nba/history/leaders/_/stat/assists

It's very possible neither of these records will ever be broken.

I used to say the Dream Team was John Stockton and 11 hot dogs. My favorite Stockton story occurred off the court. He was in Spain for the '92 Olympics with a video camera asking random people if they'd seen any of the Dream Teamers. They had no idea that he was one, even after the interview because he doesn't look like a stereotypical basketball player let alone Dream Teamer. Funny stuff, I'd love to see some of it on youtube!

edit: found a link which talks about the video incident:
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/01/23/s...assuming-unmatched.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Enjoyed that old article. Repped!

 

[Masbee]

True story, I'm at a ref camp at Gonzaga. Girls High School basketball. I warned this #12 in White to keep her elbows in while setting picks. I look over to the left and on the bench is the all time steals/assist leader. I realized at that moment I was reffing Stockton's daughter. I ended up reffing 3 games of hers. Fellas, she plays EXACTLY like him. Illegal screens and all.

Did she grab the skin on the arms of players fighting through picks?

 

[DUB]

My favorite Stockton story occurred off the court. He was in Spain for the '92 Olympics with a video camera asking random people if they'd seen any of the Dream Teamers. They had no idea that he was one, even after the interview because he doesn't look like a stereotypical basketball player let alone Dream Teamer. Funny stuff, I'd love to see some of it on youtube!

edit: found a link which talks about the video incident:
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/01/23/s...assuming-unmatched.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

I remember watching that. No-one had any idea who he was.

 

[handiman]

At his peak, Payton was probably very close to Stockton's all-around level. The problem is, Payton's peak lasted maybe a quarter as long as Stockton's. It took Payton a lot longer to build to that level and he didn't hold on nearly as well.

 

[Sinobas]

Payton was one of the best on ball defenders in NBA history, Stockton was pretty good too, but Stockton is one of the elite passers in NBA history, which I think is a bigger deal for a PG. I don't think Payton was better than John offensively either, John was a better shooter, and I like PGs that can shoot.

 

[BigGameDamian]

True story, I'm at a ref camp at Gonzaga. Girls High School basketball. I warned this #12 in White to keep her elbows in while setting picks. I look over to the left and on the bench is the all time steals/assist leader. I realized at that moment I was reffing Stockton's daughter. I ended up reffing 3 games of hers. Fellas, she plays EXACTLY like him. Illegal screens and all.

Does she get star treatment?

 

[jlprk]

At his peak, Payton was probably very close to Stockton's all-around level. The problem is, Payton's peak lasted maybe a quarter as long as Stockton's. It took Payton a lot longer to build to that level and he didn't hold on nearly as well.

Yes. Before Kemp left, Payton was barely able to lead the Sonics in scoring only because he was the PG deciding who got to shoot, but Kemp was the team's best player by far. As soon as Kemp left and the team was Payton's, he had a couple of great years as a defender. Then McMillan became coach and wore him down.

 

[MickZagger]

Stockton was amazing. Greatest true PG ever. Not a smarter basketball person to walk this earth. 6'1" scrawny, hairy knuckled white dude from Spokane, Washington that outballed more athletic fooz from all over the globe.

Giggity

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

you guys are gullible as fuck.

Payton had a huge rivalry with MJ. This is him trying to get him back, its his new form of trash talking. Jordan > all.

 

[MickZagger]

you guys are gullible as fuck.

Payton had a huge rivalry with MJ. This is him trying to get him back, its his new form of trash talking. Jordan > all.

Wang Zhizhi > The world.

 

[KingSpeed]

So is he a top 10 player of all time?

 

[BigGameDamian]

So is he a top 10 player of all time?

Who Stockton or Payton?

 

[Voodoo]

Steals Leader, and it's not even close:
http://espn.go.com/nba/history/leaders/_/stat/steals

Assists Leader, and it's not even close:
http://espn.go.com/nba/history/leaders/_/stat/assists

It's very possible neither of these records will ever be broken.

I used to say the Dream Team was John Stockton and 11 hot dogs. My favorite Stockton story occurred off the court. He was in Spain for the '92 Olympics with a video camera asking random people if they'd seen any of the Dream Teamers. They had no idea that he was one, even after the interview because he doesn't look like a stereotypical basketball player let alone Dream Teamer. Funny stuff, I'd love to see some of it on youtube!

edit: found a link which talks about the video incident:
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/01/23/s...assuming-unmatched.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Here's the video, it's pretty entertaining.

http://www.craveonline.com/sports/articles/190519-no-one-knows-who-john-stockton-is

 

[jlprk]

Payton was also known for being selfish at times, and chicking in the clutch.

I agree with that. Click on it. That chicker.

 

[Masbee]

you guys are gullible as fuck.

Payton had a huge rivalry with MJ. This is him trying to get him back, its his new form of trash talking. Jordan > all.

Yes, Jordan is the GOAT who stomped on both Stockton and Payton on his way to more rings.

I am not sure what you are trying to say or who you are lambasting?

 

[BigGameDamian]

So you guys think Lillard can be as good as Payton was in his prime?

 

[magnifier661]

So you guys think Lillard can be as good as Payton was in his prime?

Absolutely not! They are completely different animals in terms of skill. Payton was one of the best "one on one defenders". Lillard can only hope to be at least a competent defender. Lillard is absolutely much better shooting the ball. Payton was a better distributor.

I see Lillard being more of a Roy-type player that distributes more than ISOs.

 

[mook]

So you guys think Lillard can be as good as Payton was in his prime?

Lillard is off to a better start. It's a pretty fair comparison, given they were rookies at the same age and both played a lot of minutes in their first year.

Even back then, though, you could see Payton's commitment to defense, and he was a better passer.