Point guard comparison

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Rastapopoulos said:
Agree with you that the sample size is small, but disagree about "mediocre career". He's always been an excellent defender. People discount that way too much.
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On what basis do you make this claim?
 
Rastapopoulos said:
"The One Below". I like that. Very Satanic. Imma take that.


So where would you rank him, and on what basis?
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His leadership, scoring, and passing ability?

The dude can do everything offensively. And his "poor defense" is magnified by the team.

Remember his 2nd year when his DBPM was about even? When he had that top 10 defense around him?

Yeah, your "basis" for this whole thread is flawed.
 
BonesJones said:
I am angry at the board for turning on our best player with uneducated posts.
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No one has turned on anyone, at least I havent. but I do think we need to adjust how we see this team. we are capped out and all we have are two fringe all stars and a couple nice role players. that isnt going to buy you much in a superstar driven league.
 
Dame is downright amazing. There's no reason to hate on the guy.

His reputation for weak defense is likely holding him back from getting awards, tho.

He's got ice in his veins in the clutch. He can put up lots of points in a hurry.

He's 7th in scoring, 3rd among point guards. He's 15th in the league in assists, though I wouldn't want many of those ahead of him instead (Rubio, Rondo, etc.).

He's 9th in FTA, which indicates he's getting superstar calls.

He's playing 35.8 MPG. If he played just a few more minutes, he might lead the league in scoring.

He's gotten better each season. A tribute to his work ethic.

He's been the opposite of a Jail Blazer. He's the team leader. This is his team.
 
BonesJones said:
His leadership,
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I think he's a very good teammate. But don't leaders lead their teams to better records than this?

BonesJones said:
scoring, and passing ability?
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Aren't those both quantifiable? Y'know, with stats? Like the ones being compared with other PGs?

BonesJones said:
The dude can do everything offensively.
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Oh, now you're convincing me. Things like "finish at the rim" you mean? For which there's a stat.

BonesJones said:
And his "poor defense" is magnified by the team.
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I will agree that defense is very hard to quantify with a stat. The best of an imperfect lot is some kind of plus/minus. But you can also watch him play. And it's not pretty.

BonesJones said:
Remember his 2nd year when his DBPM was about even? When he had that top 10 defense around him?
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So NOW the "advance stats" aren't so bogus? Maybe his defensive numbers were inflated then?

BonesJones said:
Yeah, your "basis" for this whole thread is flawed.
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Whereas YOUR basis is "LEAVE DAMIAN ALONE!!!!!!"
 
chzbrgr said:
No one has turned on anyone, at least I havent. but I do think we need to adjust how we see this team. we are capped out and all we have are two fringe all stars and a couple nice role players. that isnt going to buy you much in a superstar driven league.
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You're suggesting he might not be top 10. Someone suggested is possible he's just an average starter. A few have brought up the idea of trading him.

He's not a fringe all star. He's a superstar. 27/6/4 on 45/35/90 is not a "fringe all star"

McCollum is a little above fringe all star level at this point (even though he won't make the all star team. 23ppg on 47/43/90 is elite level scoring. He's almost a 50/40/90 guy at 23ppg. That's all-star level.
 
These debates always get silly at a certain point. Stats are all well and good, but the stats that an individual point guard puts up aren't done in a vacuum; they're done in the context of the team he's playing on. Dame's 3 pt percentage is down. OMG! Do you think that's because he's really a poor shooter or is it because he's had to push to try to make things happen when the team has fallen behind because the rest of his teammates aren't hitting their shots? Put him in a situation where the offense is more balanced and he has the luxury of taking only open 3 pointers on catch and shoot situations and I'll guarantee you his percentage goes up. And, as the original poster said, this is kind of a golden era of point guards. Is Dame somehow worse because there are other good guys playing his position? Anybody want to bring back Sebastian Telfair to run the offense? I hear he's available. Dame is the best player this franchise has had since at least Brandon Roy. We are damned lucky to have him.
 
BonesJones said:
He's not a fringe all star. He's a superstar. 27/6/4 on 45/35/90 is not a "fringe all star"
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Again with the bogus stats! So I guess all of the PGs in the list this thread started with are Superstars?
 
BonesJones said:
You're suggesting he might not be top 10. Someone suggested is possible he's just an average starter. A few have brought up the idea of trading him.

He's not a fringe all star. He's a superstar. 27/6/4 on 45/35/90 is not a "fringe all star"

McCollum is a little above fringe all star level at this point (even though he won't make the all star team. 23ppg on 47/43/90 is elite level scoring. He's almost a 50/40/90 guy at 23ppg. That's all-star level.
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Is he a sure fire all-star in the west? no. Is he deserving? yes of course.
 
Man, if there was ever a night for him to drop 50 in our biggest win of the season, and set things straight again...

tomorrow on ESPN would be it.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
I think he's a very good teammate. But don't leaders lead their teams to better records than this?



Aren't those both quantifiable? Y'know, with stats? Like the ones being compared with other PGs?



Oh, now you're convincing me. Things like "finish at the rim" you mean? For which there's a stat.



I will agree that defense is very hard to quantify with a stat. The best of an imperfect lot is some kind of plus/minus. But you can also watch him play. And it's not pretty.



So NOW the "advance stats" aren't so bogus? Maybe his defensive numbers were inflated then?



Whereas YOUR basis is "LEAVE DAMIAN ALONE!!!!!!"
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Passing ability can't be measured accurately by assists when Lillard plays in an offense that runs off ball movement between 5 players, whole someone like Westbrook has to create his teammates every look in OKC. So no, it's not quite quantifiable.

He's a top scorer in the league. If anything, he'd be a 30ppg if everything ran through him like it did Westbrook or Harden.

How would it be inflated when we were around 10th, much closer to average than 30th?

The scheme also magnifies his defensive weaknesses, did you not read my thread about the change in the defensive scheme that helps the defense as a whole and will also help Lillard by minimizing his weaknesses?

All my basis is is "Leave Damian Alone"?? Haha Ok.
 
Advanced stats.
Sir Charles says some crazy things.
But I have to agree with him on his take of advanced stats.

Denny Crane said:
There's an unwatch thread link above the posts. You'll stop getting notifications, but you will still see the thread on the Blazers forum page (list of threads).
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ignore/unsee button so I don't have to read through it on the main page.
I wonder if Trump can make this happen for me. Make S2 great again. :ygrin:
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Both of those things could be true without him being"a superstar". Sadly.
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Nothing I hate more than a media tag of "superstar" on a player. Carmelo's been a "superstar" since he came in the league and he still hasn't done jack to make his team better.
 
Winning cures all this babble in the end. Damian Lillard is a perfect franchise leader...bitch, bitch, bitch....he's the brightest spot on the team this season. Enjoy what he brings night in and night out.
 
26/12/4

The stat line of Kevin love's last year in Minnesota. Just sayin...
 
Lillard is probably a top-ten point guard. I don't think I've seen anyone say he's specifically not a top-ten point guard. Some people were pointing out that there are ten other point guards that have an argument, even if that argument is weak in some cases.

Lillard is a star, but his relative rank among point guards has a lot to do with the fact that this is a golden age of point guards. Lillard is probably not top-five and that's only partially a knock on him (if he were an average defender and he was a bit more selective in his shots, he probably would be). In a lot of eras, he would be top-five--he just happens to live through an era in which there are a ton of good and great point guards.

This is worth keeping in mind when/if he doesn't make the All-Star team or an All-NBA team. In many years of NBA history, he would. He's not being "snubbed," he just has stiff competition.
 
chzbrgr said:
Is he a sure fire all-star in the west? no. Is he deserving? yes of course.
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He's better than Klay but Klay plays on a better team. There's more that goes into all-star selections than just talent, so I don't use the actual all-star game as a guage for players. Instead, it's more of a level of play.
 
chzbrgr said:
26/12/4

The stat line of Kevin love's last year in Minnesota. Just sayin...
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19/6.5
The stat line of Damian Lillard last time Portland finished the season under .500. Just sayin...
 
Minstrel said:
Lillard is probably a top-ten point guard. I don't think I've seen anyone see he's specifically not a top-ten point guard. Some people were pointing out that there are ten other point guards that have an argument, even if that argument is weak in some cases.

Lillard is a star, but his relative rank among point guards has a lot to do with the fact that this is a golden age of point guards. Lillard is probably not top-five and that's only partially a knock on him (if he were an average defender and he was a bit more selective in his shots, he probably would be). In a lot of eras, he would be top-five--he just happens to live through an era in which there are a ton of good and great point guards.

This is worth keeping in mind when/if he doesn't make the All-Star team or an All-NBA team. In many years of NBA history, he would. He's not being "snubbed," he just has stiff competition.
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Probably not top 5?? Who's 4th and 5th???
 
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