Post-deadline Olshey Keep or Fire

[jlprk]

2/1/2 years into a 5 year plan and I think we are tracking pretty well.

Year three of a 3-5 year rebuild.

Is there any evidence that Allen gave Olshey 5 years to do nothing? Other than Olshey constantly using the term "5-year rebuild?" A 5-year contract is not a license to take 5 years to accomplish anything. That's just Olshey the salesman making excuses.

 

[jlprk]

Parsons was not a target...they did due diligence but didn't have another conversation...Neil wanted ET...we weren't trying to get Parsons...that isn't how it went down...Neil talked to all the agents...we did go after Enis Kanter...

We offered Parsons a max deal, and he turned it down to play for the same amount in Memphis. He was our top free agent target.

The media ran that story but Olshey said it wasn't like that after the ET signing....we met with his agent...I'm looking for that interview...Dallas offered him a deal

That was "reported"...they had a meeting in LA...Parsons headed for Memphis ...Olshey said it was a due diligence meeting but ET was their plan A all along..Dallas media was in the mix at the same time...my take was the meeting didn't thrill anyone involved...several articles pumped up the narrative though

Huh. That's what i get for using Oregonlive as my source.

Then Olshey lied. Parsons acknowledged that Portland was his 2nd choice after Memphis, where he went to play with his friend Conley. There was hard negotiation, not just a due diligence query.

 

[jlprk]

I've never seen anyone waste away more resources than Neil. He has shown very little creativity when working drafts, putting together deals, working free agency etc.

Noncreative and low-effort. Excellent summation of my thoughts.

 

[TBpup]

Since it seems to be Neil's modus operandi, who will Neil get nothing for next? Nothing....or worse than nothing. We have to stretch a crap contract coming back or have to pay to get them to go.

 

[LayneStaley]

If they really wanna have a chance at a title with Dame I don’t see Nurk or CJ on that team, Nurk can walk as far as I’m concerned unless he signs for 10-12 mil max. CJ is the only piece we have to attach one of Neil’s shit contracts to and still get a valuable player(s) back.

 

[illmatic99]

Is there any evidence that Allen gave Olshey 5 years to do nothing? Other than Olshey constantly using the term "5-year rebuild?" A 5-year contract is not a license to take 5 years to accomplish anything. That's just Olshey the salesman making excuses.

Seriously. People buying Neil's snakeoil sales job like sheep, man. 5 year rebuild means Dame is gone after and you just wasted the prime of a guy who will be the best player in franchise history.

And in what part of that plan was this idea of paying the 8th man on the roster 75 million?

 

[Orion Bailey]

Is there any evidence that Allen gave Olshey 5 years to do nothing? Other than Olshey constantly using the term "5-year rebuild?" A 5-year contract is not a license to take 5 years to accomplish anything. That's just Olshey the salesman making excuses.

When you post things like that you show you arent really wanting to discuss this, because this is a personal bias and inaccurate, however I will bite and respond. There is proof to contradict this statement that Olshey has done nothing.

Let's put it another way....

MY company is pretty elite in our market nitch.

However we lost our lead operator last year due to retirement. We have not yet found a solid replacement and our company has felt the impact. A year later and we have no replacement. Are there replacements out there? Yes. Will we get one? Yes. Will it take time???? YES!!!!!!!

When you lose 4 of your 5 starters, it takes time to rebuild. He actually made some good decisions with the guys he brought in initially as evidence by a second round birth.

They then handed out larger contracts, in part because of optimism of continued growth of the young team that was just assembled, combined with it was a use it or lose it summer.

Did everything go perfectly? no. IS your life perfect? no. has your career been perfect for what you wanted?

Backseat drivers and armchair quarterbacks always know better though....


sigh....

 

[Orion Bailey]

Seriously. People buying Neil's snakeoil sales job like sheep, man. 5 year rebuild means Dame is gone after and you just wasted the prime of a guy who will be the best player in franchise history.

And in what part of that plan was this idea of paying the 8th man on the roster 75 million?

Fake news.

He is entering his prime now. Do you think that prime is only 2-3 years...

More fake news....

Again. Hindsight is 20/20.

Look around the league at the contracts of that summer and they were the norm...

Man, some people like beating a dead horse... even when it isn't dead!!!!!


Broken record... fake news....

 

[Hoopguru]

Is there any evidence that Allen gave Olshey 5 years to do nothing? Other than Olshey constantly using the term "5-year rebuild?" A 5-year contract is not a license to take 5 years to accomplish anything. That's just Olshey the salesman making excuses.

No hard proof just my thinking.
I cant imagine Paul not wanting a plan regardless who's coach and how good they team is. When the team broke up 2 1/2 years ago Im sure they put together some sort of plan that could be re-evaluted very year but with objectives goals to meet with a 3&5 year set of criteria to meet or exceed. Most all companies or organizations do. If you don't know where you are going you will end up somewhere else & what gets measured gets done. It's was not realistic to think a team that just started a major rebuild with youngsters, and FA's lack of interest in PDX to contend or be on winning trajectory in just a couple years.

 

[Hoopguru]

When you post things like that you show you arent really wanting to discuss this, because this is a personal bias and inaccurate, however I will bite and respond. There is proof to contradict this statement that Olshey has done nothing.

Let's put it another way....

MY company is pretty elite in our market nitch.

However we lost our lead operator last year due to retirement. We have not yet found a solid replacement and our company has felt the impact. A year later and we have no replacement. Are there replacements out there? Yes. Will we get one? Yes. Will it take time???? YES!!!!!!!

When you lose 4 of your 5 starters, it takes time to rebuild. He actually made some good decisions with the guys he brought in initially as evidence by a second round birth.

They then handed out larger contracts, in part because of optimism of continued growth of the young team that was just assembled, combined with it was a use it or lose it summer.

Did everything go perfectly? no. IS your life perfect? no. has your career been perfect for what you wanted?

Backseat drivers and armchair quarterbacks always know better though....


sigh....

Nice post couldn't agree more!

 

[jlprk]

I cant imagine Paul not wanting a plan regardless who's coach and how good they team is. When the team broke up 2 1/2 years ago Im sure they put together some sort of plan

When a "plan" shows no progress year after year, it's really an excuse. Whenever a reporter asks him why the delays, he cites the "plan"...which Allen has never mentioned. His "plan" exists only to defer critics and buy himself a longer stay as GM.

His "plan" was to acquire lesser assets and trade them for needle-movers. Instead, he not only gives away those assets, he PAYS others to take them, twice in the last 6 months.

 

[BonesJones]

Fake news.

He is entering his prime now. Do you think that prime is only 2-3 years...

More fake news....

Again. Hindsight is 20/20.

Look around the league at the contracts of that summer and they were the norm...

Man, some people like beating a dead horse... even when it isn't dead!!!!!


Broken record... fake news....

Yeah, everyone was stupid that summer. How s that an excuse for doing this same things as the Magic, Wizards, and Lakers?

Should've had some forsight. Smh. We've gotten no better since LMA left but it's year 3 out of a 5 year rebuild? Usually when you rebuild you build towards something. What are we building towards?

The dudes a joke of a GM.

 

[stampedehero]

We lose when we should win. The playoffs always end in Oakland. I say he is a practical decision maker as he gave up Vonleh for $ space and we get another Serbian bookend. At this point, Neil wants playoffs but he knows that the Western conference is owned by those Dubs. We are not the only rabble contending against the Champs.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Yeah, everyone was stupid that summer. How s that an excuse for doing this same things as the Magic, Wizards, and Lakers?

Should've had some forsight. Smh. We've gotten no better since LMA left but it's year 3 out of a 5 year rebuild? Usually when you rebuild you build towards something. What are we building towards?

The dudes a joke of a GM.

Bones you are not getting it. You just contridicted yourself.

No should have had more insight than all the other gms in the league?
But here is the hole in your arguement. You just said everyone was stupid.
So you want to get rid of no for another gm? Another gm that did the same thing that summer you are chastising no about?

Come on guys, be realistic with yourselves.
And the situation we were in that all teams were in.

Secondly if we didn’t sign turner, we would have no more flexibility than we do now.

 

[jlprk]

No should have had more insight than all the other gms in the league?
But here is the hole in your arguement. You just said everyone was stupid.
So you want to get rid of no for another gm? Another gm that did the same thing that summer you are chastising no about?

Huh? All the post-free agency July national articles criticized him for spending like an ass, worst GM in the league that month. This board criticized the national writers right back.

 

[BonesJones]

Bones you are not getting it. You just contridicted yourself.

No should have had more insight than all the other gms in the league?
But here is the hole in your arguement. You just said everyone was stupid.
So you want to get rid of no for another gm? Another gm that did the same thing that summer you are chastising no about?

Come on guys, be realistic with yourselves.
And the situation we were in that all teams were in.

Secondly if we didn’t sign turner, we would have no more flexibility than we do now.

1.) I had foresight when it came to average players on big contracts. Turner wasnt work more than $6M uber the old cap, so how the hell is he worth $18M in the new one? Said that at the time. Didn't really like resigning Meyers either. Not every GM splurged, and a good GM wouldn't have done what Olshey did. We need a good GM.

2.) Wed actually have had our full MLE while being we able to use it and stay under the tax. We would also be able to use our full $12M trade exception. So that last statement is entirely false

 

[Orion Bailey]

1.) I had foresight when it came to average players on big contracts. Turner wasnt work more than $6M uber the old cap, so how the hell is he worth $18M in the new one? Said that at the time. Didn't really like resigning Meyers either. Not every GM splurged, and a good GM wouldn't have done what Olshey did. We need a good GM.

2.) Wed actually have had our full MLE while being we able to use it and stay under the tax. We would also be able to use our full $12M trade exception. So that last statement is entirely false

Would not using those still take us over the cap and into tax problems? Im not up on the MLE exeption rules.


I have still yet to hear a list of names we could have signed that would make us better right now.

I also admitted he over paid some for Turner and Meyers. Alot of GMs over paid as you have admitted.

So what GOOD GM didn't over pay you think we can go get?

I'm just tired of the complaints without solutions. You had a better plan? Lay it out in detail WITH names, or chill.

I tossed a list out there of who was signed that summer for how much. Put together a list that equals Turners salary, fits our needs at the time and makes us a better team.

Show me that and Ill shut up.

 

[Denny Crane]

2.) Wed actually have had our full MLE while being we able to use it and stay under the tax. We would also be able to use our full $12M trade exception. So that last statement is entirely false

We were $25M under the cap. We got NO MLE at all.

 

[Hoopguru]

When a "plan" shows no progress year after year, it's really an excuse. Whenever a reporter asks him why the delays, he cites the "plan"...which Allen has never mentioned. His "plan" exists only to defer critics and buy himself a longer stay as GM.


His "plan" was to acquire lesser assets and trade them for needle-movers. Instead, he not only gives away those assets, he PAYS others to take them, twice in the last 6 months.

I get what you are saying and I think that Paul would have fired him by now if he didn't feel that some progress wasn't being made. Plus Paul himself probably takes some of the responsibility in questionable moves. Hey how many team teams that are blown up make the offs each year and have even advanced. They could have done the Philly & Minnie route and been losers for the next 12 years, but they rolled the dice were aggressive, made a few bad moves and good moves. Getting Davis & Nurk/1st rounder and Collins isn't to shabby. We are a 36 seed now, do you know how many years its been since the Wolves and Sixers have been in the playoffs. I do think this next offseason and year are critical in keeping the process going.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

We were $25M under the cap. We got NO MLE at all.

Not my post, but I interpreted Bones' post to which you were responding as saying that not signing all those deals in the summer of 2016 (specifically Turner and Meyers) would have made the full MLE available the summer of 2017.

 

[jlprk]

I get what you are saying and I think that Paul would have fired him by now if he didn't feel that some progress wasn't being made. Plus Paul himself probably takes some of the responsibility in questionable moves. Hey how many team teams that are blown up make the offs each year and have even advanced. They could have done the Philly & Minnie route and been losers for the next 12 years, but they rolled the dice were aggressive, made a few bad moves and good moves. Getting Davis & Nurk/1st rounder and Collins isn't to shabby. We are a 36 seed now, do you know how many years its been since the Wolves and Sixers have been in the playoffs. I do think this next offseason and year are critical in keeping the process going.

You threw in ever random comment but the kitchen sink. None of those statements is relevant to my suspicion that the "plan" he defends himself with, and which Allen has never mentioned, is a cover story...especially since he has consistently lacked the skill to follow the supposed "plan."

Any fool can BUY at an auction. What requires negotiating talent is to later SELL the merchandise at a profit, not paying someone to take it off your hands. You cite examples of investing in lesser assets to make later consolidation trades, but you can't list any of those later consolidation trades. That's because the guy lacks the talent to make such trades...that is, to follow his fake plan.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

You threw in ever random comment but the kitchen sink. None of those statements is relevant to my suspicion that the "plan" he defends himself with, and which Allen has never mentioned, is a cover story...especially since he has consistently lacked the skill to follow the supposed "plan."

Any fool can BUY at an auction. What requires negotiating talent is to later SELL the merchandise at a profit, not paying someone to take it off your hands. You cite examples of investing in lesser assets to make later consolidation trades, but you can't list any of those later consolidation trades. That's because the guy lacks the talent to make such trades...that is, to follow his fake plan.

But...but...but...he made that Chris Paul trade that one time, therefore...

 

[hoopsjock]

1.) I had foresight when it came to average players on big contracts. Turner wasnt work more than $6M uber the old cap, so how the hell is he worth $18M in the new one? Said that at the time. Didn't really like resigning Meyers either. Not every GM splurged, and a good GM wouldn't have done what Olshey did. We need a good GM.

2.) Wed actually have had our full MLE while being we able to use it and stay under the tax. We would also be able to use our full $12M trade exception. So that last statement is entirely false

Okay, lets break it down financially. If you don't include Meyers and Turner we are under the cap in 2017 and therefore wouldn't get an MLE or trade exception (we probably keep Crabbe too but for this discussion I'll keep everything else the same except the Vonleh trade since that was just to get under the tax). So we'd have a very rough estimate of about $5 million in cap space and if we used that we'd get the room exception of $4.8 million. That is still less flexible than a $13 million trade exception and a tax-MLE of $5.2 million.

So lets look at it without just Turner then. We'd be at a few million over the cap still. That means we'd keep our $13 million TPE and possibly have the full-MLE for $8.4 million and the Bi-Annual Exception of $3.2 million. Using those exceptions would hard cap us at the apron so it would be wouldn't be able to use the full TPE. So for this discussion lets only use the TPE for Mirotic and the MLE for whomever. That adds about $21 million to the payroll making us about $7 million over the tax line. While using those makes us better most likely this year and next year it actually gives us less flexibility this summer because we'd have slightly more in guaranteed contracts, no big TPE, and all the RFA's still.

Arguing the team could be better without Turner is one thing but it doesn't make us more flexible.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Okay, lets break it down financially. If you don't include Meyers and Turner we are under the cap in 2017 and therefore wouldn't get an MLE or trade exception (we probably keep Crabbe too but for this discussion I'll keep everything else the same except the Vonleh trade since that was just to get under the tax). So we'd have a very rough estimate of about $5 million in cap space and if we used that we'd get the room exception of $4.8 million. That is still less flexible than a $13 million trade exception and a tax-MLE of $5.2 million.

TPE would absolutely still exist, in that you have to renounce all available exceptions in order to use cap space. If the cap space available after renouncing the exceptions is less than the MLE, what would the Blazers gain by taking that tack? The ability to use the room exception too? Certainly not worth it. Clearly would be better off using non-tax MLE and BAE, keeping the TPE, and accepting the hard-cap.

 

[Denny Crane]

Not my post, but I interpreted Bones' post to which you were responding as saying that not signing all those deals in the summer of 2016 (specifically Turner and Meyers) would have made the full MLE available the summer of 2017.

We had taxpayer MLE available.

There's clearly some misconception that not paying players means you have flexibility. If you are way below the cap, you only have up to the cap in flexibility without exceptions. This is a real squeeze, as witnessed the Heat when they signed LeBron and Wade and Bosh only to find themselves handcuffed by the salary cap, only able to sign vet minimum contracts for that season. It likely cost them the championship, which they won the next season, after having draft picks/MLE to improve the roster.

If you are over the cap but under the LT, you have that amount of salary (more than the CAP!) in flexibility. You have more $$$ to build your roster while having all the flexibility you'd otherwise have at under the CAP.

Even over the LT threshold, we had the ability to get rid of Crabbe's big contract, make trades, and get under the LT. NO had a huge TPE that could have facilitated a trade to bring in another high salaried player, if there were one that was available and worth the price.

 

[Denny Crane]

Failure? LOL

This week's power rankings.

Year 3 of the rebuild.

http://www.nba.com/powerrankings/2017-18-week-18?cid=EMA_NBA_daily&uniqueID=488709942#/

 

[Schilly]

I think the clear issue here is BonesJones knows absolutely everything about basketball and what a team needs to do to build an instant contender, and nobody else agrees with him. Sorry Bones I know you are passionate but I simple disagree with your analysis on about 75% of basketball related things. There are a ton of former NBA players who have been complete failures as GM's, simply having played the game doesn't automatically equate to a greater understanding of scouting and coaching it up.

 

[Schilly]

BTW we love ya BonesJones I’m just flipping ya a little shit for fun!

 

[Hoopguru]

You threw in ever random comment but the kitchen sink. None of those statements is relevant to my suspicion that the "plan" he defends himself with, and which Allen has never mentioned, is a cover story...especially since he has consistently lacked the skill to follow the supposed "plan."

Any fool can BUY at an auction. What requires negotiating talent is to later SELL the merchandise at a profit, not paying someone to take it off your hands. You cite examples of investing in lesser assets to make later consolidation trades, but you can't list any of those later consolidation trades. That's because the guy lacks the talent to make such trades...that is, to follow his fake plan.

You threw in ever random comment but the kitchen sink. None of those statements is relevant to my suspicion that the "plan" he defends himself with, and which Allen has never mentioned, is a cover story...especially since he has consistently lacked the skill to follow the supposed "plan."

Any fool can BUY at an auction. What requires negotiating talent is to later SELL the merchandise at a profit, not paying someone to take it off your hands. You cite examples of investing in lesser assets to make later consolidation trades, but you can't list any of those later consolidation trades. That's because the guy lacks the talent to make such trades...that is, to follow his fake plan.

Like either you or I know how Neil is being measured by Paul. Again, if he's as bad as you say Paul wouldn't have extended him last year.
12 out of 30 teams have won more than 30 games to date, and we are one of them.

If you really are Trader Bob, you better call your buddy Rich Cho and tell him to get his act together.

 

[julius]

Failure? LOL

This week's power rankings.

Year 3 of the rebuild.

http://www.nba.com/powerrankings/2017-18-week-18?cid=EMA_NBA_daily&uniqueID=488709942#/

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[mediocreman]
Wait, are we supposed to praise this guy because he ranks the team higher than we fans do?
[/mediocreman]