Quick: A new Meyers Leonard

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JDC said:
Looked through teams today to find some potential new homes for Meyers and Indiana stands out to me. Really the only trade partner with a bad team+lack of bigman depth+piece we'd want combo.

Leonard+Aminu+2nd for Thad Young seems like an obvious trade deadline move possibility.
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As long as Pritchard is GM over there forget it.
 
JDC said:
Looked through teams today to find some potential new homes for Meyers and Indiana stands out to me. Really the only trade partner with a bad team+lack of bigman depth+piece we'd want combo.

Leonard+Aminu+2nd for Thad Young seems like an obvious trade deadline move possibility.
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Vonleh is from Indy.
 
mook said:
Portland has a ton of options at the 4 now. The days of gifting Vonleh the starting job for a season are over (thank heavens). Vonleh reminds me a lot of Martel Webster and Travis Outlaw--two other highly-rated youngsters handed prominent positions on the team not because they earned it, but for lack of any other options. Webster had nice shooting form and Outlaw insane leaping ability, whereas Vonleh has good advanced metrics in rebounding and better-than-Meyers defense. But once guys like Batum and Wes Matthews came along we never looked back. And we won't with Vonleh either.

"Vonleh looked pretty good next to Nurkic," I keep hearing. Guess what? So would a lot of people. Marginal players tend to look a lot better when vastly superior teammates draw all the attention. Outlaw and Webster looked almost serviceable next to Roy and Aldridge.

Personally, I think we've yet to see our Batum/Wes-type replacement guy at PF. With those two you had players that were no-doubt going to start and play key roles on the team pretty much from day one.

Either Aminu or Davis could turn a corner, but they have been around here a while and I just don't see the revolution happening there. I'd be happy to be wrong, but if that's our long-term solution it's basically living with a better Noah Vonleh.

Leonard could be that guy. What the hell, crazier things have happened in this league. Color me all kinds of skeptical though.

I really like what Swanigan and Collins have shown so far. My money is on Collins winning out in the long run, but I'm just happy to see a real competition for the spot.
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We've got more choices but few real options. Vonleh was penciled in by most to be gifted the starting job again this year cause of 'familiarity' over our two rookies. You're right bad players look better next to really good one's but even 'better' Vonleh is a below average player. Collins and Swanigan are rookies, who knows if they stick this year. Ed while I love his game is a backup. Aminu is a one way player. Meyers...lol. So I see lots of choices, but none of them are that great right now.
 
chzbrgr said:
We've got more choices but few real options. Vonleh was penciled in by most to be gifted the starting job again this year cause of 'familiarity' over our two rookies. You're right bad players look better next to really good one's but even 'better' Vonleh is a below average player. Collins and Swanigan are rookies, who knows if they stick this year. Ed while I love his game is a backup. Aminu is a one way player. Meyers...lol. So I see lots of choices, but none of them are that great right now.
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Vonleh's injury is something of a godsend, really, because it ensures there's a real competition for the job at the start of the season. Somebody else is going to get that chance to "look really good next to Nurkic", a phrase so synonymous with Vonleh I'm surprised it hasn't gained abbreviation status like RLEC or BPA.

I bet whoever gets the job at starting PF opening night will also be quickly labeled as looking really good next to Nurkic. Nurkic is a rising tide that lifts all boats.

Swanigan and Davis are probably the toughest fits next to Nurk--Swanigan because we'll have a miserable time covering the floor on defense with him at PF, and Davis because of his limited jump shot. Even those guys, though, should feast on the boards.
 
Nikolokolus said:
I hope Meyers turns a corner, but if he's got a large role on this team, then something has gone terribly wrong with Nurkic. The best I hope for at this point is that he becomes a serviceable backup big that doesn't terrify you when he's on the court for more than 5 minutes, and/or he increases his trade value enough that he can be part of a deal that is more than just a salary dump.

So excite.
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Teams play twin towers still.
 
mook said:
Portland has a ton of options at the 4 now. The days of gifting Vonleh the starting job for a season are over (thank heavens). Vonleh reminds me a lot of Martel Webster and Travis Outlaw--two other highly-rated youngsters handed prominent positions on the team not because they earned it, but for lack of any other options. Webster had nice shooting form and Outlaw insane leaping ability, whereas Vonleh has good advanced metrics in rebounding and better-than-Meyers defense. But once guys like Batum and Wes Matthews came along we never looked back. And we won't with Vonleh either.

"Vonleh looked pretty good next to Nurkic," I keep hearing. Guess what? So would a lot of people. Marginal players tend to look a lot better when vastly superior teammates draw all the attention. Outlaw and Webster looked almost serviceable next to Roy and Aldridge.

Personally, I think we've yet to see our Batum/Wes-type replacement guy at PF. With those two you had players that were no-doubt going to start and play key roles on the team pretty much from day one.

Either Aminu or Davis could turn a corner, but they have been around here a while and I just don't see the revolution happening there. I'd be happy to be wrong, but if that's our long-term solution it's basically living with a better Noah Vonleh.

Leonard could be that guy. What the hell, crazier things have happened in this league. Color me all kinds of skeptical though.

I really like what Swanigan and Collins have shown so far. My money is on Collins winning out in the long run, but I'm just happy to see a real competition for the spot.
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Vonleh is 21 years old. I don't think he was gifted anything, but rather given minutes to develop against the best competition possible.

21 years old. He still has huge upside.

Stotts started him, but didn't play him down the stretch when it counted.
 
Scalma said:
Maybe but Nurkic and Leonard should never be on the court at the same time.
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Have to see it to decide. I bet Stotts will see it in practice and he'll be in a better position to decide :)
 
Denny Crane said:
Have to see it to decide. I bet Stotts will see it in practice and he'll be in a better position to decide :)
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Already saw it in Denver. Leonard is just as limited as Jokic defensively.
 
Denny Crane said:
Vonleh is 21 years old. I don't think he was gifted anything, but rather given minutes to develop against the best competition possible.

21 years old. He still has huge upside.

Stotts started him, but didn't play him down the stretch when it counted.
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It seems like Noah has been "21" forever...
I just looked, and he had his 22nd birthday about a month ago.
 
Scalma said:
Maybe but Nurkic and Leonard should never be on the court at the same time.
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I think you are wrong here. Meyers can pass the ball very well as he has demonstrated many times. And if he is shooting well they could very well work together.
 
Denny Crane said:
Vonleh is 21 years old. I don't think he was gifted anything, but rather given minutes to develop against the best competition possible.

21 years old. He still has huge upside.

Stotts started him, but didn't play him down the stretch when it counted.
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Well, you may not consider it a gift, but when somebody hands a player with no track record of success an extremely rare opportunity to be one of 30 starting NBA power forwards, it sure wan't earned. Is donation a better term? Roll of the dice? Call it what you want.

It's the same reason Telfair, Webster, Outlaw, and a bunch of other worthless young guys got starting jobs on the Blazers. Youth with a lack of talent ahead of them. When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose.

It's certainly nothing like Damian Lillard getting the starting job his rookie year, where everybody could see he was a better than average starting NBA player on day one.
 
tester551 said:
It seems like Noah has been "21" forever...
I just looked, and he had his 22nd birthday about a month ago.
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His nickname should be Forever 21. His offense is about as soft and cheaply made as the clothing that store sells!
 
The best fit next to Nurkic theoretically is Collins. Can space the court offensively and has the feet to be left on the perimeter defensively.
 
Scalma said:
The best fit next to Nurkic theoretically is Collins. Can space the court offensively and has the feet to be left on the perimeter defensively.
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Collins has a couple years before he is ready for NBA. But lets hope so.
 
Denny Crane said:
Vonleh is 21 years old. I don't think he was gifted anything, but rather given minutes to develop against the best competition possible.

21 years old. He still has huge upside.

Stotts started him, but didn't play him down the stretch when it counted.
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Yeah, Vonleh was given minutes to develop. Same thing folks want to do now with Caleb and Zach.
 
mook said:
Well, you may not consider it a gift, but when somebody hands a player with no track record of success an extremely rare opportunity to be one of 30 starting NBA power forwards, it sure wan't earned. Is donation a better term? Roll of the dice? Call it what you want.

It's the same reason Telfair, Webster, Outlaw, and a bunch of other worthless young guys got starting jobs on the Blazers. Youth with a lack of talent ahead of them. When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose.

It's certainly nothing like Damian Lillard getting the starting job his rookie year, where everybody could see he was a better than average starting NBA player on day one.
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I saw the Bulls play Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler those kinds of minutes. Both right out of high school.

They started Curry at C and Chandler came off the bench (and finished games). I see Vonleh getting PT like Curry did. I'm perfectly fine with it.

Though at some point, Vonleh has to earn more than Q1 development minutes.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/2002.html

That's how you develop really young players.
 
BBert said:
Yeah, Vonleh was given minutes to develop. Same thing folks want to do now with Caleb and Zach.
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Sure. I think Caleb gets his PT at C, no? Vonleh isn't in his way at all.

Swanigan? I think he's going to earn PT pretty quick. I trust Stotts will play his best players.
 
kjironman1 said:
Collins has a couple years before he is ready for NBA. But lets hope so.
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I think a lot of people are underestimating just how NBA ready he is. People see seven feet, skinny and a lot of shot blocking and assume he's a center who needs a couple years to fill out so he can be another Nurkic.

I see a guy who has probably 10-15 pounds and 4 inches on Aminu (who has played lots of undersized PF for us) and is a better help defender. He's leaner than Vonleh, but brawn isn't everything at PF. Porzingas is 7-3 240. Theo Ratliff was definitely pretty skinny but was a force in the middle for several years.

LaMarcus was basically an inch shorter and the same weight when we drafted him. If we had the chance to play a less offensively gifted rookie LaMarcus right now over any of the other options, I think we would. Which is why I think Portland will settle on Zach Collins fairly quickly.
 
mook said:
I think a lot of people are underestimating just how NBA ready he is. People see seven feet, skinny and a lot of shot blocking and assume he's a center who needs a couple years to fill out so he can be another Nurkic.

I see a guy who has probably 10-15 pounds and 4 inches on Aminu (who has played lots of undersized PF for us) and is a better help defender. He's leaner than Vonleh, but brawn isn't everything at PF. Porzingas is 7-3 240. Theo Ratliff was definitely pretty skinny but was a force in the middle for several years.

LaMarcus was basically an inch shorter and the same weight when we drafted him. If we had the chance to play a less offensively gifted rookie LaMarcus right now over any of the other options, I think we would. Which is why I think Portland will settle on Zach Collins fairly quickly.
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Lets hope you are right. Could use a LaMarcus Aldridge with the kind of fire Collins shows.
 
If Meyers "popped" (and that is a completely subjective thing to quantify so I'll let you apply it as you see fit), would you think/feel differently about NO? Watching the CJ interview from today's media session and it occurred to me that if Meyers popped that draft would be really impressive. CJ is yoked and turned in to a full grown ass man. Just thinking, if Meyers did the same, NO crushed it
 
...I liked how Dame was trying to stay PC when they specifically asked him what he noticed from Meyers so far in camp -- basically saying that from a basketball skill perspective nothing has changed, but from a mental standpoint he could tell the Meyers is in a better place and definitely playing like he has something to prove and playing A LOT more physical (saying he would have fouled out of every pickup game so far LOL)
 
Meyers oh Meyers...

I bought you a corsage and romanced you on our date.
You left me alone and crying.. "oh great!"
But my love for you is fierce and undying
SO I just gotta keep on trying

Ill give you one last chance.
Dont leave me with some ankle pants
im already down on my knees
begging you please

TO JUST BE FUCKING GOOD!!!!
 
HAAK72 said:
...I liked how Dame was trying to stay PC when they specifically asked him what he noticed from Meyers so far in camp -- basically saying that from a basketball skill perspective nothing has changed, but from a mental standpoint he could tell the Meyers is in a better place and definitely playing like he has something to prove and playing A LOT more physical (saying he would have fouled out of every pickup game so far LOL)
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Lmao so he still sucks?
 
Scalma said:
Lmao so he still sucks?
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Maybe. He has tools. He just hasn't had the basketball smarts or the confidence to use them. For Meyers this summer was about gaining some semblance of basketball smarts and the confidence to put them to good use. If he's playing hard and physical, and with confidence, then he shouldn't suck. Fingers crossed.

:cheers:
 
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