Trade Idea Realistic trade options for summer of 2023

[Predator]

I will defer to your knowledge here. I have not followed him in college. If this is really the case, he is not a good target. I honestly do not have the knowledge to asses that.


Clearly. He has post moves, he is a decent pick and pop threat and pick and roll threat, he can shoot the mid-range consistently. He can actually run the floor and finish in transition, clearly a lob threat. He is light on his feet and can change directions really well for such a big man, his handle is not bad for a big man. So the skills, certainly are there.

His #1 problem, from what I have seen him - disinterest. And if it is really just a normal trait and not an issue with Monte, he is not worth it.

His #2 issue, again from what I have seen, is defensive awareness - and that is either an issue of coaching and experience.

Embiid and Jokic are super skilled, Ayton is in the above average category.

Ayton, statistically, is about on par with Nurkic and cost nearly double the money.

Ayton also had the benefit of playing with Booker and one of the best “true” PGs of all time, CP3.

Finally, Ayton doesn’t change the trajectory of this team at all. He’s not nearly as skilled as Jokic or Embiid, who are the reinging MVPs, and neither have sniffed a title.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Yes we do. Ayton showed the same disinterest in college at Arizona.
He just doesn't have the mental drive to be great....

Well I don’t really know if Nurkic does either.

 

[andalusian]

Embiid and Jokic are super skilled, Ayton is in the above average category.

Fair. Should have probably been "super skilled for his age".

Ayton, statistically, is about on par with Nurkic and cost nearly double the money.

This is where we differ. In 9 years, Nurkic's VORP (accumulative stat) is 6.8. In 5 years, Ayton's VORP is 7.2 (which tells you he added more value in 55% of the time).

In TS Added (number of true shooting added over league average) during their career, Ayton is at 427.5 in 5 years, Nurkic is at -135 (in other words, Nurkic shooting hurts your offense compared to the average, Ayton is a clear plus).

Win shares for their career, Nurkic 26 in 9 years, Ayton 31 in 5 years. WS/48 (adjusted for minutes, in other words), Nurkic 0.111, Ayton 0.160 (so he is both more durable and contribute more to winning per minute played).

Add the fact that he is 5 years younger and without the injury history that Nurkic carries, and I would argue that his salary, compared to Nurkic, seems reasonable for his production, age, potential.

Add the stylistic difference in Chauncy's defensive scheme - and if the Blazers believe he will be engaged and happy to play here, it sure seems like a well-worth risk to take.

I have no doubts that Ayton is not worth the cost compared to Jokic or Embiid (but that is mostly because of the max salary cap), but I am more than certain that he is worth the salary compared to Nurkic, for sure.

I would say that if you look at the accumulated win-share and VORP and adjusted to number of years played, yes, Ayton is worth about twice the cost of Nurkic.

 

[CJ_is_Gone]

Well I don’t really know if Nurkic does either.

He doesn't.
They are the same tier of players.

They can be good/really good at times. They can also kill your team if you rely on them too much.

Only Ayton costs 2x as much

 

[Mr. Robot]

Phoenix desperately needs an infusion of youth.

That team used to be very young and very deep and now they're neither.

they need depth, simple as that, two good players in the rotation and theyre champs material

they way they use ayton is harming both ayton and the team and hes too expensive to be used like that (yes, ayton has questionable motor, but he can easily be 20/10 center)

that means they should either give him a bigger role or trade him and get some center how will do simple things (rebound, set screens, defend if he can, get easy buckets when he gets the ball, like looney with the gsw)

 

[STOMP]

Would you rather have Deandre Ayton, Karl Anthony Towns, Rudy Gobert or stick with Nurkic?

Townes is the best option of the 4 and it's not close. But whats the cost to get him? Sure doubt they're looking to pair up Gobert and Nurkic

STOMP

 

[Mediocre Man]

Townes is the best option of the 4 and it's not close. But whats the cost to get him? Sure doubt they're looking to pair up Gobert and Nurkic

STOMP

Unless you value defense. And if they don’t, then the team is fucked

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Not interested in Ayton at all. He looks like a way overpaid player worth less every year just like Ben Simmons.

 

[STOMP]

Unless you value defense. And if they don’t, then the team is fucked

While I know that Rudy received DPY honors, he's been repeatedly abused on D in the playoffs to the point he's been barely playable. Similarly, even without time to prepare teams love to involve Nurk in high pick and rolls to get their prefered guard/wing ISO'd on him for a clean look. Ayton is the best of the 4 defensively but I've concerns about his mentals while KAT is by far the best offensive and overall option... the question was who do you prefer correct?

STOMP

 

[blazerkor]

If we get #1 and therefore Wemby then I think Ayton would be a great pickup if it only cost us Ant and Nurk. I’d throw in a future first for Payne.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

If we get #1 and therefore Wemby then I think Ayton would be a great pickup if it only cost us Ant and Nurk. I’d throw in a future first for Payne.

Ayton
Wemby
Grant
Sharpe
Dame

Not an Ayton fan, but every lineup looks great if we win the Wemby lotto.

 

[Mediocre Man]

While I know that Rudy received DPY honors, he's been repeatedly abused on D in the playoffs to the point he's been barely playable. Similarly, even without time to prepare teams love to involve Nurk in high pick and rolls to get their prefered guard/wing ISO'd on him for a clean look. Ayton is the best of the 4 defensively but I've concerns about his mentals while KAT is by far the best offensive and overall option... the question was who do you prefer correct?

STOMP

The best defender. You can’t have 5 guys who all want the ball

 

[STOMP]

The best defender. You can’t have 5 guys who all want the ball

Hey I prioritize D from Bigs & Ayton is the best defender of those 4 with versatility on switches as probably his best trait. But don't kid yourself, he wants the ball on the other end too and he's let that be known. Assuming his head isn't the mess that posters are alluding to, he'd be a clear upgrade. I just happen to think with his ability to spread the court, KAT would be an even bigger one... dude is very skilled offensive player with career 40% shootiing from 3pt range and isn't terrible on D.

I'd put the chances either is wearing a Blazer uni next season near zero tho... not realistic trade options.

STOMP

 

[wizenheimer]

If we get #1 and therefore Wemby then I think Ayton would be a great pickup if it only cost us Ant and Nurk. I’d throw in a future first for Payne.

twin towers doesn't work anymore. In fact, it almost never did. If Wemby is stuck at PF guarding guys like Lebron, Kawhi, Durant, Harrison Barnes, Wiggins, Zion/Ingram, Tatum, Jimmy Butler....those are today's NBA PF's....well, if that's who Wemby has to guard 90% of the time he's going to have a real rough time.

I can't believe that anybody would think paying Ayton 34M/year is a good idea. C's are the least valuable position these days, unless of course it's an MVP level player. That sure the hell isn't Ayton

 

[RR7]

Ayton seems to suffer from effort, focus and consistency, but when he's on, he's a beast. Don't we already have that issue at C?! Why would we use up a chunk of our assets to have that same problem, just more expensive?

 

[Natebishop3]

Ayton seems to suffer from effort, focus and consistency, but when he's on, he's a beast. Don't we already have that issue at C?! Why would we use up a chunk of our assets to have that same problem, just more expensive?

Well, Nurk is also extremely injury prone. How is Aytons health?

 

[blazerkor]

Well, Nurk is also extremely injury prone. How is Aytons health?

https://hoopshype.com/storyline/deandre-ayton-injury/

Looks like just some minor shit here and there, nothing major. Looks like he had a lingering issue with his left ankle in 2020 but that's the only season that he missed significant PT. He's been pretty durable. His field goal percentage is what you'd expect from a dominant big man. He is a helluva lot more athletic and can do the things that I don't think Nurk can. The kid disappears from time to time but he's far more consistent than Nurk too.

I get the people that don't like that much money going to a big but I only want that if he's playing next to Wemby and Wemby isn't going to be a traditional big for the foreseeable future... I think he will be guarding on the perimeter and weak side. We will want to acquire an athletic C to play next to him or a PF that can really bang.

 

[Predator]

Fair. Should have probably been "super skilled for his age".



This is where we differ. In 9 years, Nurkic's VORP (accumulative stat) is 6.8. In 5 years, Ayton's VORP is 7.2 (which tells you he added more value in 55% of the time).

In TS Added (number of true shooting added over league average) during their career, Ayton is at 427.5 in 5 years, Nurkic is at -135 (in other words, Nurkic shooting hurts your offense compared to the average, Ayton is a clear plus).

Win shares for their career, Nurkic 26 in 9 years, Ayton 31 in 5 years. WS/48 (adjusted for minutes, in other words), Nurkic 0.111, Ayton 0.160 (so he is both more durable and contribute more to winning per minute played).

Add the fact that he is 5 years younger and without the injury history that Nurkic carries, and I would argue that his salary, compared to Nurkic, seems reasonable for his production, age, potential.

Add the stylistic difference in Chauncy's defensive scheme - and if the Blazers believe he will be engaged and happy to play here, it sure seems like a well-worth risk to take.

I have no doubts that Ayton is not worth the cost compared to Jokic or Embiid (but that is mostly because of the max salary cap), but I am more than certain that he is worth the salary compared to Nurkic, for sure.

I would say that if you look at the accumulated win-share and VORP and adjusted to number of years played, yes, Ayton is worth about twice the cost of Nurkic.

I really don't care what they've done over their careers. Here's the most recent season:

In my eyes, that's not a player that's worth double Nurkic particularly given he plays the least valuable position in the league at the moment, and he really doesn't solve our biggest issues. In fact, one of our biggest issues (rebounding) gets worse with him.

So, no, not interested in Ayton.

Sure, he's better than Nurkic, but like I said... not a ceiling raiser in my eyes. And if we are going to give up our limited assets for a player, it better be a ceiling raiser, and the fact of the matter is there are 2 centers who do that. Embiid and Jokic.

 

[Predator]

twin towers doesn't work anymore. In fact, it almost never did. If Wemby is stuck at PF guarding guys like Lebron, Kawhi, Durant, Harrison Barnes, Wiggins, Zion/Ingram, Tatum, Jimmy Butler....those are today's NBA PF's....well, if that's who Wemby has to guard 90% of the time he's going to have a real rough time.

I can't believe that anybody would think paying Ayton 34M/year is a good idea. C's are the least valuable position these days, unless of course it's an MVP level player. That sure the hell isn't Ayton

But Damian will keep him focused, committed, and working hard. Suddenly, he'll become an MVP-level player!

 

[inconceivable]

Random thought. No one ever mentions DPOY JJJ.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Random thought. No one ever mentions DPOY JJJ.

For good reason. He is locked up for 3 more years on a very team-friendly contract. Memphis would be insane to trade him.

 

[Galakelife]

I really don't care what they've done over their careers. Here's the most recent season:

In my eyes, that's not a player that's worth double Nurkic particularly given he plays the least valuable position in the league at the moment, and he really doesn't solve our biggest issues. In fact, one of our biggest issues (rebounding) gets worse with him.

So, no, not interested in Ayton.

Sure, he's better than Nurkic, but like I said... not a ceiling raiser in my eyes. And if we are going to give up our limited assets for a player, it better be a ceiling raiser, and the fact of the matter is there are 2 centers who do that. Embiid and Jokic.

View attachment 55844

Well its decided then..........We get Jokic.....they regret sending us Nurkic and really want him back.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Could the Worriers have some interest in Nurkic?

 

[wizenheimer]

Could the Worriers have some interest in Nurkic?

why? Looney is better at half the cost

 

[SheedSoNasty]

Could the Worriers have some interest in Nurkic?

We are all worriers when it comes to Nurk and his health.

 

[Labinot41]

no to Ayton and no to Nurkic.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Random thought. No one ever mentions DPOY JJJ.

How?

 

[TBpup]

twin towers doesn't work anymore. In fact, it almost never did. If Wemby is stuck at PF guarding guys like Lebron, Kawhi, Durant, Harrison Barnes, Wiggins, Zion/Ingram, Tatum, Jimmy Butler....those are today's NBA PF's....well, if that's who Wemby has to guard 90% of the time he's going to have a real rough time.

I can't believe that anybody would think paying Ayton 34M/year is a good idea. C's are the least valuable position these days, unless of course it's an MVP level player. That sure the hell isn't Ayton

'PF' seems to be a dying position. There isn't much 'power' to it anymore and the ones that are more like that are getting older (LeBron, Butler) or are so often hurt. (Zion). Since almost everyone struggles with Kawhi, (when he plays) Durant, Wiggins, Ingram, Tatum, etc, I'll take the mobile freak with the 7'8" wingspan and take my chances. He should be able to play off of them a bit and has enough quickness/size to be able to recover as well as most.

 

[wizenheimer]

'PF' seems to be a dying position. There isn't much 'power' to it anymore and the ones that are more like that are getting older (LeBron, Butler) or are so often hurt. (Zion). Since almost everyone struggles with Kawhi, (when he plays) Durant, Wiggins, Ingram, Tatum, etc, I'll take the mobile freak with the 7'8" wingspan and take my chances. He should be able to play off of them a bit and has enough quickness/size to be able to recover as well as most.

I just don't buy it. They tried to jamb Porzingis into that template; it didn't work. Zach Collins was another that didn't fit as a PF/4. Both are C's now after the failed PF experiments. Myles Turner is another player that was theorized as a PF but was really a C.

I have watched video of Wemby. The mobility I've noticed has been on offense and it's more straight-line than zig-zag. He's got great handles and decent footwork for a guy his size & age, and the threat to pull up from anywhere and shoot over defenders is pretty awesome.

but I have not seen the lateral mobility on defense at all. When he has been on a perimeter player, he's been beat off the dribble quite a bit. And he's been slow to close out on shooters. He's much better in or near the paint where that 7'8 length you pointed at can be used for rim protection, help defense, and defensive rebounding. Him being 20 feet away from the basket on defense is not playing to his strengths. And this has come against Euro-league front courts. Against the constant stream of NBA all-star level talent at 'the-4-position' I think he'll spend way to much time lost and in foul trouble

 

[TBpup]

I just don't buy it. They tried to jamb Porzingis into that template; it didn't work. Zach Collins was another that didn't fit as a PF/4. Both are C's now after the failed PF experiments. Myles Turner is another player that was theorized as a PF but was really a C.

I have watched video of Wemby. The mobility I've noticed has been on offense and it's more straight-line than zig-zag. He's got great handles and decent footwork for a guy his size & age, and the threat to pull up from anywhere and shoot over defenders is pretty awesome.

but I have not seen the lateral mobility on defense at all. When he has been on a perimeter player, he's been beat off the dribble quite a bit. And he's been slow to close out on shooters. He's much better in or near the paint where that 7'8 length you pointed at can be used for rim protection, help defense, and defensive rebounding. Him being 20 feet away from the basket on defense is not playing to his strengths. And this has come against Euro-league front courts. Against the constant stream of NBA all-star level talent at 'the-4-position' I think he'll spend way to much time lost and in foul trouble

Didn't say he would be good. Said he should be able to recover as well as most against Durant....etc. Since I don't see anyone really slowing them down, so I'll take Wemby and live with the rest. Also, I don't see Porzingis, Collins and Wemby in the same conversation too often, but maybe you are finding different comparisons than I am.