Trade Idea Realistic trade options for summer of 2023

[PCmor7]

Ya, Cronin is trash. He identified Dame as THE player to target in the draft. As GM he added the best player we’ve obtained in forever and drafted.

I thought Dame signed Blevins.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Good luck finding a starting C without an injury history. It's very common. So unless you want no legitimage bigs (we only had 1 last year and it hurt us) then I don't see a way around this. He started shooting 3s, so what does "traditional" even mean at this point?

Yeah, Cronin and Jody may continue to suck, wouldn't surprise me one bit!

I agree in that we need more traditional centers on the roster than 1. We need someone to bang with Jokic, Embiid, etc in the playoffs as well as the grind of 82 games. But they don't all have to be on $70 million contracts. I'd prefer 2-3 of these players on the roster at smaller contracts.

Traditional center means yes in a small part shooting threes, but more the mobility on the defensive end. Nurk can't guard in space or guard opponents effectively when they go small. He is much better in drop coverage but often thats a poor strategy against shooting guards as well as a different strategy than Chauncey often implements.

So Nurkic can be played off the floor, or be ineffective when the other team gameplans for it. This is evident by Nurks 3-13 postseason record. His 1.1 3pts per 36 minutes last year isn't enough volume to make a significant difference, even if its a nice trend compared to his career averages.

Even though I'm less bullish on Nurk than you are; I still believe he is more effective than a replacement level player, and can be a rotational player on a very good team. So the team should keep him on the roster and play him if healthy. I just see his effectiveness as being very easy to replace by a competent GM who wants to allocate that salary slot to a more critical position; if that GM has the simple competency to acquire cheaper traditional center backup big men.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Ya, Cronin is trash. He identified Dame as THE player to target in the draft. As GM he added the best player we’ve obtained in forever and drafted, what appears to be, a complete stud in Sharpe.

Neil was the GM; so he gets the bulk of the credit. Doesn't matter if the team, scouts, assistants, etc was leaning towards Dame previously or not. Neil had the authority and the believe from Paul Allen to go where he wanted to with those decisions. So he rightly gets credit for drafting Dame even if it was someone elses initial suggestion.

Do you likewise hold it against Cronin, the main cap expert, that the Blazers signed Turner to that stupid contract? What about matching Crabbe? Or losing Aldridge for nothing? Or sending first round picks out for irrelevant veterans? The GM is either responsible for all moves or none of them, you can't single out the good moves in Neil's tenure to others but hold the bad moves against him. That is if you want to fairly judge Neil. If you just want to hold up a pitchfork to Neil and spew off delusional nonsense - then please carry on.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Neil was the GM; so he gets the bulk of the credit. Doesn't matter if the team, scouts, assistants, etc was leaning towards Dame previously or not. Neil had the authority and the believe from Paul Allen to go where he wanted to with those decisions. So he rightly gets credit for drafting Dame even if it was someone elses initial suggestion.

Do you likewise hold it against Cronin, the main cap expert, that the Blazers signed Turner to that stupid contract? What about matching Crabbe? Or losing Aldridge for nothing? Or sending first round picks out for irrelevant veterans? The GM is either responsible for all moves or none of them, you can't single out the good moves in Neil's tenure to others but hold the bad moves against him. That is if you want to fairly judge Neil. If you just want to hold up a pitchfork to Neil and spew off delusional nonsense - then please carry on.

Neil was hired well after the scouting dept AND Paul Allen, identified Lillard as their guy

 

[BonesJones]

I agree in that we need more traditional centers on the roster than 1. We need someone to bang with Jokic, Embiid, etc in the playoffs as well as the grind of 82 games. But they don't all have to be on $70 million contracts. I'd prefer 2-3 of these players on the roster at smaller contracts.

Traditional center means yes in a small part shooting threes, but more the mobility on the defensive end. Nurk can't guard in space or guard opponents effectively when they go small. He is much better in drop coverage but often thats a poor strategy against shooting guards as well as a different strategy than Chauncey often implements.

So Nurkic can be played off the floor, or be ineffective when the other team gameplans for it. This is evident by Nurks 3-13 postseason record. His 1.1 3pts per 36 minutes last year isn't enough volume to make a significant difference, even if its a nice trend compared to his career averages.

Even though I'm less bullish on Nurk than you are; I still believe he is more effective than a replacement level player, and can be a rotational player on a very good team. So the team should keep him on the roster and play him if healthy. I just see his effectiveness as being very easy to replace by a competent GM who wants to allocate that salary slot to a more critical position; if that GM has the simple competency to acquire cheaper traditional center backup big men.

I still think Nurk is underrated guarding in space. I don't think that was the issue whatsoever defensively. People think Eubanks was good guarding in space but that led to him switching far too often and ultimately getting burnt, and half the time Eubanks didn't know where to be on rotations or in transition.

If they find a Nurk upgrade I'm absolutely cool with that. Just have to many holes and weaknesses to focus on getting rid of the one guy who shores up our two biggest ones. Just need a legitimate backup C behind him (wish we would've gotten Hartenstein in the Hart deal).

 

[BonesJones]

Ya, Cronin is trash. He identified Dame as THE player to target in the draft. As GM he added the best player we’ve obtained in forever and drafted, what appears to be, a complete stud in Sharpe.

I identified Dame as THE guy as a high schooler, and was all aboard with the Sharpe pick. Many others did too.

Doesn't mean we'd all be good GMs.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I identified Dame as THE guy as a high schooler, and was all aboard with the Sharpe pick. Many others did too.

Doesn't mean we'd all be good GMs.

What has he done that is poor?

 

[KingSpeed]

Are the Blazers interested?

 

[STOMP]

I still think Nurk is underrated guarding in space. I don't think that was the issue whatsoever defensively. People think Eubanks was good guarding in space but that led to him switching far too often and ultimately getting burnt, and half the time Eubanks didn't know where to be on rotations or in transition.

If they find a Nurk upgrade in absolutely cool with that. Just have to many holes and weaknesses to focus on getting rid of the one guy who shores up our two biggest ones. Just need a legitimate backup C behind him (wish we would've gotten Hartenstein in the Hart deal).

I advocated for signing Hartenstein and Looney instead of Nurk last offseason... combined they signed for about the same money as JN somehow commanded. At the rates they signed, either would clearly have been a much better option to have in the fold. The Blazers are a ways away and shouldn't be overpaying for yesterdays that never were

STOMP

 

[BonesJones]

What has he done that is poor?

If you have to ask that question then you already think that nothing he's done is poor and that's silly.

 

[BonesJones]

I advocated for signing Hartenstein and Looney instead of Nurk last offseason... combined they signed for about the same money as JN somehow commanded. At the rates they signed, either would clearly have been a much better option to have in the fold. The Blazers are a ways away and shouldn't be overpaying for yesterdays that never were

STOMP

Looney wasn't gettable for Nurkic so I don't see the point in your advocation for him. I've been a Hartenstein fan for a while. Sure. It be nice to have arguably the two best bang-for-your-buck centers in the entire league. Nurkic is an average starting C and is paid like one.

 

[Mediocre Man]

If you have to ask that question then you already think that nothing he's done is poor and that's silly.

Great tactic

 

[illmatic99]

I identified Dame as THE guy as a high schooler

Lol sure you did

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Lol sure you did

Not sure if you misread his post the same way I did initially, but I'm pretty sure Bones is only saying that he himself was in high school during the 2012 draft, and viewed Dame as "the guy" to use the 6 pick on (which is quite believable given the discussion going on at that time) ... rather than how I initially interpreted it as saying that he noticed Dame during his high school days in Oakland and pegged him as a superstar before he even went to college (which would clearly be false).

 

[Hoopguru]

Not sure if you misread his post the same way I did initially, but I'm pretty sure Bones is only saying that he himself was in high school during the 2012 draft, and viewed Dame as "the guy" to use the 6 pick on (which is quite believable given the discussion going on at that time) ... rather than how I initially interpreted it as saying that he noticed Dame during his high school days in Oakland and pegged him as a superstar before he even went to college (which would clearly be false).

I remember it was said, that Dame was dominate and very impressive during Chicago Combine scrimmages.

 

[blazerkor]

I remember it was said, that Dame was dominate and very impressive during Chicago Combine scrimmages.

So many people fell in love with us picking him. We needed a PG and he was the PG to take. Most of us were just hoping no one else jumped on him before our pick.

I think the team having him in for more than one workout plus Dame's demeanor did make most of us want him as a Blazer.

 

[illmatic99]

Not sure if you misread his post the same way I did initially, but I'm pretty sure Bones is only saying that he himself was in high school during the 2012 draft, and viewed Dame as "the guy" to use the 6 pick on (which is quite believable given the discussion going on at that time) ... rather than how I initially interpreted it as saying that he noticed Dame during his high school days in Oakland and pegged him as a superstar before he even went to college (which would clearly be false).

i see, then OK.

Because as I had read it, I thought he meant he wanted Dame while Dame was in HS. Which is an asinine claim because unless people were in AAU tournaments and could somehow foresee Dame's improved work ethic 4 yrs later, he was not an NBA prospect in HS.

 

[illmatic99]

So many people fell in love with us picking him. We needed a PG and he was the PG to take. Most of us were just hoping no one else jumped on him before our pick.

I think the team having him in for more than one workout plus Dame's demeanor did make most of us want him as a Blazer.

Look through the draft thread from that year. 90% + of this forum wanted Dame after the team posted his interview with Mike Rice.

 

[STOMP]

Looney wasn't gettable for Nurkic so I don't see the point in your advocation for him. I've been a Hartenstein fan for a while. Sure. It be nice to have arguably the two best bang-for-your-buck centers in the entire league.

Were they capped out when they resigned Joseph? If so, that makes more sense as to why they didn't go after better options which were signed for much less.

Nurkic is an average starting C and is paid like one.

Next season Nurk will be the 11th highest paid Center in the league. Without considering contracts, it's pretty easy to list 16 guys I'd rather have on the roster in 2023-24 plus many others I'd be at least as good with having.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/rankings/cap-hit/center/

STOMP

 

[SheedSoNasty]

Were they capped out when they resigned Joseph? If so, that makes more sense as to why they didn't go after better options which were signed for much less.


Next season Nurk will be the 11th highest paid Center in the league. Without considering contracts, it's pretty easy to list 16 guys I'd rather have on the roster in 2023-24 plus many others I'd be at least as good with having.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/rankings/cap-hit/center/

STOMP

Basketball players make so much money nowadays. It’s insane.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Were they capped out when they resigned Joseph? If so, that makes more sense as to why they didn't go after better options which were signed for much less.

The Blazers have been over the salary cap since they signed Evan Turner in 2016.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Not sure if you misread his post the same way I did initially, but I'm pretty sure Bones is only saying that he himself was in high school during the 2012 draft, and viewed Dame as "the guy" to use the 6 pick on (which is quite believable given the discussion going on at that time) ... rather than how I initially interpreted it as saying that he noticed Dame during his high school days in Oakland and pegged him as a superstar before he even went to college (which would clearly be false).

Yeah I initially misread it same as you two, it wasn't a clear statement. Yes it makes much more sense that Bones was saying as a highschooler himself he identified Dame at the draft - just saying that everyone even competent GMs or simple fans identified Dame at the draft as the best pick.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Basketball players make so much money nowadays. It’s insane.

It is crazy, but when you consider Judge Judy made 47 million a year in salary.....it does not quite look as bad. At least NBA players are in the top 300 in the world. We have a number of condescending smart-ass posters on this board who could entertain us the same way Judge Judy did.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Next season Nurk will be the 11th highest paid Center in the league. Without considering contracts, it's pretty easy to list 16 guys I'd rather have on the roster in 2023-24 plus many others I'd be at least as good with having.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/rankings/cap-hit/center/

To be fair I think you have to remove all the players on rookie contracts.

Even still, I think Nurk was poor value at the $70 million the Blazers paid him, and said so at the time, as did many Blazers fans. There wasn't a single team that was paying him more than the MLE so we shouldn't have offered more than a few million over it. Cronin decided to negotiate against himself same as this franchise has done with Even Turner, Meyers Leonard, back to ZBo and Miles. Thats one of the main reasons this franchise is always in purgatory, they settle for poor value contracts of mediocre rotation players.

 

[wizenheimer]

To be fair I think you have to remove all the players on rookie contracts.

Even still, I think Nurk was poor value at the $70 million the Blazers paid him, and said so at the time, as did many Blazers fans. There wasn't a single team that was paying him more than the MLE so we shouldn't have offered more than a few million over it. Cronin decided to negotiate against himself same as this franchise has done with Even Turner, Meyers Leonard, back to ZBo and Miles. Thats one of the main reasons this franchise is always in purgatory, they settle for poor value contracts of mediocre rotation players.

on this we agree

I said so last July...that Cronin way overpaid for Ant, Nurk, & GP3. That he bid against himself and paid well over market. Now the rebuttals I got was comparisons of what Ant/Nurk were paid to other players of their caliber. But I was basing my opinion on the market last summer. Every off-season has a distinct market. Last summer, there were very few teams with the cap-space to give that 100M deal to Ant (I think 3 teams); and maybe 1 or 2 more teams that could give Nurk 70M.

But those specific teams just didn't have a need for either player. For instance, one of the teams was Indiana. I think they had about 20-25M in space. But they had Haliburton, Hield, Duarte, Nesmith, and TJ O'Connell at guard/wing and had just drafted Mathurin & Nembhard; and had Myles Turner & Isaiah Jackson at C and were in the process of trading for Daniel Theiss

IMO, market price would have been about 18M/year for Ant and 12M/year for Nurkic. And if those guys were on those contracts they'd likely have much higher trade value

GP3 was just a bad signing, all the way around

 

[blazerkor]

Basketball players make so much money nowadays. It’s insane.

Nope, it's totally sane. You might think that the league revenue is insane but it's not insane for the players in the league to get around 50% of that revenue. The revenue isn't even insane. League Pass is making the NBA a ton of money, TimeWarner and Disney are making a ton of money off of their ad revenue from their broadcasts and teams are making money and increasing in value year after year. What the average players make is about right or maybe a little bit too much (both bench and starters) the superstars are actually not getting their fair market share because they bring in way more revenue than they are getting compensated for and are the driving force behind the increased value of the teams.

 

[illmatic99]

Basketball players make so much money nowadays. It’s insane.

Just remember the owners make multiple times more while the players are the ones actually bringing in the money

 

[SharpesTriumph]

on this we agree

I said so last July...that Cronin way overpaid for Ant, Nurk, & GP3. That he bid against himself and paid well over market. Now the rebuttals I got was comparisons of what Ant/Nurk were paid to other players of their caliber. But I was basing my opinion on the market last summer. Every off-season has a distinct market. Last summer, there were very few teams with the cap-space to give that 100M deal to Ant (I think 3 teams); and maybe 1 or 2 more teams that could give Nurk 70M.

But those specific teams just didn't have a need for either player. For instance, one of the teams was Indiana. I think they had about 20-25M in space. But they had Haliburton, Hield, Duarte, Nesmith, and TJ O'Connell at guard/wing and had just drafted Mathurin & Nembhard; and had Myles Turner & Isaiah Jackson at C and were in the process of trading for Daniel Theiss

IMO, market price would have been about 18M/year for Ant and 12M/year for Nurkic. And if those guys were on those contracts they'd likely have much higher trade value

GP3 was just a bad signing, all the way around

Yup, good post.

What we often hear is a poster saying well xxx player is also overpaid - or its only ~$8 million difference so why does it matter, etc.

But you add it up for damn near every player on the roster and for many years it starts to be a big problem. Yes one year in isolation is only ~$8 million and not a big difference. But multiple players together it starts to total $20-30 million of overpayments and for 5 years now were over $100 million. Then the Blazers don't have room under the luxury tax, can't add a 5th starter, the players they do have become worth less than nothing instead of having value in trades, etc.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Just remember the owners make multiple times more while the players are the ones actually bringing in the money

Paul Allens ownership of the Blazers earned him probably close to $2 billion in unrealized gains. But it is much less than the equivalent investment in the stock market.

So yeah the owners make money; but owning any $100 million+ business does and should make money.

How many players have ever lost money in a season?

 

[Voodoo]

Paul Allens ownership of the Blazers earned him probably close to $2 billion in unrealized gains. But it is much less than the equivalent investment in the stock market.

So yeah the owners make money; but owning any $100 million+ business does and should make money.

How many players have ever lost money in a season?

Virtually every superstar does, as they are paid under what they are really worth. But I understand you're overall point, just making the observation that superstars are not paid what they probably should be if there weren't arbitrary salary caps like there are.