Realizations you've made now that dame is leaving.

[BassPlaya]

I realize just how special he really is
I realize how hard he will be to replace
I realize how opportunity slipped away in his time here, mostly because of the previous G.M....who was hired and supported by the Blazers passed owner
I realize how fortunate we are to have S2, Scoot, and Murray to build upon
I realize how loyal some fans are
I realize how fickle some fans are
I realize that in my 6th decade of life, just how fleeting this all is......

 

[wizenheimer]

What the f is revisionist about how people feel?

Last year was the first time in the last 4 or 5 years I got NBA league pass, because I was excited to see Sharpe. Fact.

The very idea that people can not find a style of play boring even if the player that it is built around is excellent is ridiculous.

You like to watch it rinse and repeat 70 times a year, great, but to think that others can't find it boring?

Formula 1 is exciting this year only for 2nd place fights. Verstappen and red bull are in a league of their own, but I certainly do not tune in to see that.

I guess I need to green font occasionally

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm not sure what the list you provided proves.

It proves that the best players in our history were high lottery picks. Have to be able to add them to the team to have a shot at a title.

Didn't many people here want most, if not all of these players (including Dame now) to be traded to make room for the potential of future top 6 picks because the previous top 6 players weren't good enough to lead Portland to a championship?

I don't think so.

Nobody really wanted LMA to leave. Some of us advocated to trade him because we thought he would leave. Roy left because he literally could not play anymore. I don't really remember what the mood was when we traded Sheed. I was covering the team at that time and we were sputtering. No real direction. Similar to now, but we had a lot more talent at that time. Rider was swapped for Smith. At that point Smith was pretty old. I wish we could have gotten him when he was younger.

Half the people you listed weren't even drafted by Portland. I know Olshey loved trading for previous lottery picks, but again, I'm not sure what we're supposed to take from that.

Yes and no.

We traded for the 6th pick to draft Dame, but we chose him. We swapped picks with Chicago, but that was on draft night. Technically a trade but LMA and Roy were our guys. We traded for the ability to take them.

Rider, Smith, and Sheed were really solid trades from Bob. I wish we had Bob for Dame's last few years but I'm not sure how well he would have done without Paul's blank checkbook.

 

[Tince]

It proves that the best players in our history were high lottery picks. Have to be able to add them to the team to have a shot at a title.



I don't think so.

Nobody really wanted LMA to leave. Some of us advocated to trade him because we thought he would leave. Roy left because he literally could not play anymore. I don't really remember what the mood was when we traded Sheed. I was covering the team at that time and we were sputtering. No real direction. Similar to now, but we had a lot more talent at that time. Rider was swapped for Smith. At that point Smith was pretty old. I wish we could have gotten him when he was younger.



Yes and no.

We traded for the 6th pick to draft Dame, but we chose him. We swapped picks with Chicago, but that was on draft night. Technically a trade but LMA and Roy were our guys. We traded for the ability to take them.

Rider, Smith, and Sheed were really solid trades from Bob. I wish we had Bob for Dame's last few years but I'm not sure how well he would have done without Paul's blank checkbook.

I think you're agreeing with me. People want Dame traded (not given away for nothing). Some people wanted Aldridge traded (not given away for nothing). People wanted Sheed traded (not given away for nothing). All in hopes we could get future high lottery picks or talent, that if the pattern holds, people will want traded for more future high picks when they don't delivery a championship. Noting that those none of top players you listed were traded for assets that proved to be young top 6 picks. So the value of trading them for future superstars wasn't a thing. It probably won't be a thing with Dame either.

You listed 6 players. I said half of them were players we didn't draft, but instead traded for (Sheed, Smith, Rider). That's as factual a Thybulle being apart of the Hart trade.

 

[Paine Tablet]

I don't know if @e_blazer had their timeline screwed up or not but it happened between that second season and the trade deadline of that third. Very obviously by the time that third season was over it was far too late to salvage that situation and get any value for LaMarcus. Just the first in a very long series of catastrophic mistakes led by Olshey in trying to build around Dame and co-piloted by Cronin.

Yet the only time spent in the lottery was post Olshey. CATASTROPHE!!! Olshey haters are fucking liars.

 

[Natebishop3]

I think you're agreeing with me. People want Dame traded (not given away for nothing). Some people wanted Aldridge traded (not given away for nothing). People wanted Sheed traded (not given away for nothing). All in hopes we could get future high lottery picks or talent, that if the pattern holds, people will want traded for more future high picks when they don't delivery a championship. Noting that those none of top players you listed were traded for assets that proved to be young top 6 picks. So the value of trading them for future superstars wasn't a thing. It probably won't be a thing with Dame either.

You listed 6 players. I said half of them were players we didn't draft, but instead traded for (Sheed, Smith, Rider). That's as factual a Thybulle being apart of the Hart trade.

Yeah, but it's about not wanting to lose them for nothing after their time has passed.

Sheed and Smith and Pip got us within an inch of going to the finals and most likely winning a championship. The team flamed out and their time passed.

Roy and LMA never really got to flame out because Roy couldn't stay healthy and then LMA left.

Dame and LMA never got to flame out because of LMA's ego.

After LMA left, I don't think Dame ever really got a chance to flame out. It was like a fart in the wind. LMA left and then we kinda just hovered... Neil was one of the most frustrating GMs we have ever had. Nash was bad, but Neil was...... arrogant? Bob never stopped tinkering while he strived for excellence. Neil and even KP just kinda sat there.... They refused to take the big swing. Both of those GMs were like that. "Let the cake bake."

 

[Tince]

Yeah, but it's about not wanting to lose them for nothing after their time has passed.

Sheed and Smith and Pip got us within an inch of going to the finals and most likely winning a championship. The team flamed out and their time passed.

Roy and LMA never really got to flame out because Roy couldn't stay healthy and then LMA left.

Dame and LMA never got to flame out because of LMA's ego.

After LMA left, I don't think Dame ever really got a chance to flame out. It was like a fart in the wind. LMA left and then we kinda just hovered... Neil was one of the most frustrating GMs we have ever had. Nash was bad, but Neil was...... arrogant? Bob never stopped tinkering while he strived for excellence. Neil and even KP just kinda sat there.... They refused to take the big swing. Both of those GMs were like that. "Let the cake bake."

The Sheed/Smith/Pippen combo doesn't align with the theory of us needing to get top 6 picks because we didn't draft any of those players. Seems like you're moving further away from my original point now.

Correct Roy/LMA/(Oden)/Dame all didn't work for various reasons.

In summary, the closest we've got to winning a title in the last 30 years was actually from trades, not drafting, and none of the top 6 picks we've drafted in the last 30 years ever felt like they were on a championship contending team. Therefore, I'm not as optimistic that simply replacing Dame with one top 6 pick is a cause to be confident the organization is on the right path to contention. Doesn't mean it 100% won't work either.

 

[andalusian]

The Sheed/Smith/Pippen combo doesn't align with the theory of us needing to get top 6 picks because we didn't draft any of those players. Seems like you're moving further away from my original point now.

Correct Roy/LMA/(Oden)/Dame all didn't work for various reasons.

In summary, the closest we've got to winning a title in the last 30 years was actually from trades, not drafting, and none of the top 6 picks we've drafted in the last 30 years ever felt like they were on a championship contending team. Therefore, I'm not as optimistic that simply replacing Dame with one top 6 pick is a cause to be confident the organization is on the right path to contention. Doesn't mean it 100% won't work either.

The difference from the Sheed / Smith / Pippen era is the cap issue and the fact that Portland no longer have the only owner that is willing to spend money like a drunken sailor. (Well, they don't even have that anymore)

Given that fact and the fact that Portland is not exactly an FA Mecca, the draft is the best way for Portland to build a contender. Sad, but true.

 

[blazerkor]

Yet the only time spent in the lottery was post Olshey. CATASTROPHE!!! Olshey haters are fucking liars.

I hated Olshey as a GM. Dude just made marginal moves and touted them as moves that made us a contender every time he had the chance to. So does that make me a fucking liar? The guy constantly ignored balancing the talent on the roster, he constantly ignored redundancy and consistently made our team's two most redundant players our two highest players. The guy was happy with a playoff berth. Maybe that's all that you want but I wanted more than that and continue to want more than that.

 

[Natebishop3]

The Sheed/Smith/Pippen combo doesn't align with the theory of us needing to get top 6 picks because we didn't draft any of those players. Seems like you're moving further away from my original point now.

Correct Roy/LMA/(Oden)/Dame all didn't work for various reasons.

In summary, the closest we've got to winning a title in the last 30 years was actually from trades, not drafting, and none of the top 6 picks we've drafted in the last 30 years ever felt like they were on a championship contending team. Therefore, I'm not as optimistic that simply replacing Dame with one top 6 pick is a cause to be confident the organization is on the right path to contention. Doesn't mean it 100% won't work either.

Because we don't have the assets to trade for top 6 picks at this point. So the best chance we have to add top 6 pick talent is through the good old fashioned way... we have to suck.

 

[Tince]

The difference from the Sheed / Smith / Pippen era is the cap issue and the fact that Portland no longer have the only owner that is willing to spend money like a drunken sailor. (Well, they don't even have that anymore)

Given that fact and the fact that Portland is not exactly an FA Mecca, the draft is the best way for Portland to build a contender. Sad, but true.

I 100% agree. I think Nate bringing up those players made very little sense because we didn't draft them, it was 20+ years ago, etc.

I also agree that the draft is probably the best way to have a chance at obtaining an All-NBA player in Portland. Of course, I'd also say, in the rare opportunity you draft that level of player, Portland needs to retain said player to have a great chance at winning. Which is why I was less optimistic that moving off of Dame would yield better results.

Now, if we trade Dame for a younger, All-NBA player, then that's fantastic and I'll be totally wrong!

 

[andalusian]

I 100% agree. I think Nate bringing up those players made very little sense because we didn't draft them, it was 20+ years ago, etc.

I also agree that the draft is probably the best way to have a chance at obtaining an All-NBA player in Portland. Of course, I'd also say, in the rare opportunity you draft that level of player, Portland needs to retain said player to have a great chance at winning. Which is why I was less optimistic that moving off of Dame would yield better results.

Now, if we trade Dame for a younger, All-NBA player, then that's fantastic and I'll be totally wrong!

Well, the reason I am optimistic is that the Blazers have potential for 2 all-NBA players already on the roster - and Cronin's modus operandi seems to indicate he understands that the draft is his way of best chance of getting more talent, so hopefully he can get some draft capital from the Dame trade and convert it either by having high-draft-picks or through smart drafting from the 2nd round / end of 1st round - which is why he brought Schmitz to the FO.

I also think that Cronin understood that even with Dame on the roster. I believe he wanted to build around Dame - and given what was available in the market, believed that what was available at the draft was better than anything he could get in the trade market.

 

[Chris Craig]

The difference from the Sheed / Smith / Pippen era is the cap issue and the fact that Portland no longer have the only owner that is willing to spend money like a drunken sailor. (Well, they don't even have that anymore)

Given that fact and the fact that Portland is not exactly an FA Mecca, the draft is the best way for Portland to build a contender. Sad, but true.

It's really the only way. But, the Blazers will have to get lucky and draft enough good players in the next few years to put together a good team before everyones contracts are up and or everyone is ready to get paid. Because without an owner like Paul willing to pay to win, the Blazers will again overpay some to stay and have to trade others. Its hard to aggregate a good roster when you are not willing to pay taxes to win.

 

[Natebishop3]

I think Nate bringing up those players made very little sense because we didn't draft them

You missed the point.

I listed off players that we have had on this team who were top 6 talent and what that talent could achieve. We NEED more of that caliber of talent. The problem was that Dame never got top 6 talent again after LMA left. So our only way these days to get that level of talent is in the draft.

 

[Tince]

Because we don't have the assets to trade for top 6 picks at this point. So the best chance we have to add top 6 pick talent is through the good old fashioned way... we have to suck.

I agree that's the easiest way and we've been able to achieve that goal of sucking, with Dame. We didn't even had to trade him to do that.

 

[Natebishop3]

I agree that's the easiest way and we've been able to achieve that goal of sucking, with Dame. We didn't even had to trade him to do that.

Well..... if you believe some people, we had to deceive and lie to him to get him to tank.

 

[Tince]

You missed the point.

I listed off players that we have had on this team who were top 6 talent and what that talent could achieve. We NEED more of that caliber of talent. The problem was that Dame never got top 6 talent again after LMA left. So our only way these days to get that level of talent is in the draft.

Again, why did you bring up 3 top 6 picks we obtained via trade as an example that we need to draft players to get that level of talent? If we're taking small sample sizes, we could point to a handful of non-top 6 draft picks around the league that were 1st team All-NBA level as well.

I agreed with a different poster that we do need to draft well to optimize our chance of success, still not sure what you're disagreeing with.

 

[Tince]

Well..... if you believe some people, we had to deceive and lie to him to get him to tank.

Even if I believed that were true, that's a strategy!

 

[Natebishop3]

Again, why did you bring up 3 top 6 picks we obtained via trade as an example that we need to draft players to get that level of talent? If we're taking small sample sizes, we could point to a handful of non-top 6 draft picks around the league that were 1st team All-NBA level as well.

I agreed with a different poster that we do need to draft well to optimize our chance of success, still not sure what you're disagreeing with.

I feel like I have stated WHY several times....

It's not about drafting well. You can draft well but if you're a mid-to-late first round pick, you have a much crappier pool of talent to choose from.

 

[Tince]

Well, the reason I am optimistic is that the Blazers have potential for 2 all-NBA players already on the roster - and Cronin's modus operandi seems to indicate he understands that the draft is his way of best chance of getting more talent, so hopefully he can get some draft capital from the Dame trade and convert it either by having high-draft-picks or through smart drafting from the 2nd round / end of 1st round - which is why he brought Schmitz to the FO.

I also think that Cronin understood that even with Dame on the roster. I believe he wanted to build around Dame - and given what was available in the market, believed that what was available at the draft was better than anything he could get in the trade market.

I hear you. I'm really not trying to crap on your optimism, but this gets back to my original point that I believe the expectation that Sharpe/Scott are both going to be All-NBA players is most likely going to result disappointment. That's not based off what I think of them, it's based off the data we have to this point. If all we're saying is they have a potential (but it's unlikely) that they'll both be All-NBA players in Portland, then I agree; but would go back to that not being a good strategy.

 

[andalusian]

I hear you. I'm really not trying to crap on your optimism, but this gets back to my original point that I believe the expectation that Sharpe/Scott are both going to be All-NBA players is most likely going to result disappointment. That's not based off what I think of them, it's based off the data we have to this point. If all we're saying is they have a potential (but it's unlikely) that they'll both be All-NBA players in Portland, then I agree; but would go back to that not being a good strategy.

I am well aware of the statistics. But the beauty of sports fandom is that it allows us to have fun hoping for the unexpected which we would not, realistically, be able to do in real life where you have to ensure your kids gets to go to school dressed and not hungry...

I guess that my lack of enthusiasm for Blazers basketball in recent years (before Sharpe was drafted) was because the reality was presented year after year that it became hard to ignore the statistical improbability that the team will succeed. At the end of the day, that's the only reason we really care about sports as fans, I suspect, it's an escape, entertainment and you can enjoy it with your fellow (wo)men with little consequences. With the new era, there is hope that at the very least, it will be different.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Realization: Jody needs to sell the team to Phil Knight

 

[Natebishop3]

Realization: Jody needs to sell the team to Phil Knight

After the hit piece and all the pressure I wouldn’t be shocked if Jody refuses to sell to him.

 

[Phatguysrule]

After the hit piece and all the pressure I wouldn’t be shocked if Jody refuses to sell to him.

I wouldn't either. Still needs to happen. Isn't she under a mandate to sell to the highest bidder though?

Like, she has to sell at some point. I seriously doubt losing Dame has helped the value of the franchise...

At some point can't somebody who benefits from the trust force her to sell if she's doing such a shitty job?

 

[inconceivable]

 

[riverman]

Without Dame, this franchise would have had a decade like the Kings.

Olshey inherited LMA. The closest the Blazers came to adding an all star to the team during the Dame era was a washed Carmelo.

Pau Gasol says HELLO!!!

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Since the Dame trade request, I joined twitter. I've come to realize that not only are many of the interesting tweets fake, but they reference people who said no such thing.

 

[Tince]

I feel like I have stated WHY several times....

It's not about drafting well. You can draft well but if you're a mid-to-late first round pick, you have a much crappier pool of talent to choose from.

Ok... and how does that differ from my original point?

 

[THE HCP]

Since the Dame trade request, I joined twitter. I've come to realize that not only are many of the interesting tweets fake, but they reference people who said no such thing.

You also realized hopefully that those tweets ALOT of times is the ammo some in here use as their inside sources.

 

[Natebishop3]

Ok... and how does that differ from my original point?

Because it seems to me like you broke it down to drafting well, but I'm saying that you need to be in the high end of the lottery for drafting well to really make a difference.