Rebuild Around Dame

[B-Roy]

Go for the old Tim Duncan/David Robinson situation.

 

[Natebishop3]

Go for the old Tim Duncan/David Robinson situation.

Is there a Tim Duncan in this draft?

 

[illmatic99]

Go for the old Tim Duncan/David Robinson situation.

how about the jermaine/reggie miller led pacers? were it not for the brawl, they might have had at least one finals run.

ya, they didn't draft Jermaine, but the premise is the same.

However, this is the obvious comp. ya not easy to replicate, but possible. 11-13 yr age difference between CP and Booker/Ayton, respectively. Around what Dame/Banchero would be.

 

[illmatic99]

1. Convince Dame of a quick rebuild and to get surgery asap.

check.

 

[boredinsalem]

I'm wondering if we should take advantage of how shitty the Lakers are and take Russ for CJ and one of Roco, Nance, or Turk? Yeah, I hate having Russ on paper, but we'd be far more entertaining for the rest of the year, he's a huge expiring deal next year, and I'm wondering if we could fleece the Lakers out of draft picks the next several years.

Dame and Russ are friends, Dame, Simons, and Powell are great players with Russ (as far as giving him space), we would have a competent fast-break, and Scottie Brooks knows how to deal with the Brodie personality.

If we got 3 or 4 picks (2 picks and some swaps) we could probably make some good trades and go for broke in the offseason.

The other thing I'd be down for (if Boston is interested in Russ) is CJ and Horford to LAL, Smart and a bunch of Lakers filler to PDX (Ariza, Jordan, Bazemore - we could cut their asses), and Russ to Boston. Not sure if Boston thinks that would work at all, but I like the thought of Smart complementing Dame and Simons. We could try to ship Powell and a pick for Jerami Grant as well perhaps.

Lillard/Simons
Smart/Simons
Little/Roco
Grant/Nance
Nurkic/Zeller

 

[Scalma]

Woj said today on SC after the surgery announcement that the plan is still to build around Lillard and that they’re active in trade talks.

 

[Blazinaway]

I'm wondering if we should take advantage of how shitty the Lakers are and take Russ for CJ and one of Roco, Nance, or Turk? Yeah, I hate having Russ on paper, but we'd be far more entertaining for the rest of the year, he's a huge expiring deal next year, and I'm wondering if we could fleece the Lakers out of draft picks the next several years.

Dame and Russ are friends, Dame, Simons, and Powell are great players with Russ (as far as giving him space), we would have a competent fast-break, and Scottie Brooks knows how to deal with the Brodie personality.

If we got 3 or 4 picks (2 picks and some swaps) we could probably make some good trades and go for broke in the offseason.

The other thing I'd be down for (if Boston is interested in Russ) is CJ and Horford to LAL, Smart and a bunch of Lakers filler to PDX (Ariza, Jordan, Bazemore - we could cut their asses), and Russ to Boston. Not sure if Boston thinks that would work at all, but I like the thought of Smart complementing Dame and Simons. We could try to ship Powell and a pick for Jerami Grant as well perhaps.

Lillard/Simons
Smart/Simons
Little/Roco
Grant/Nance
Nurkic/Zeller

Am pretty Lakers have already sold off their future picks that were available to trade - they have very little outside of AD and Lebron and no f'n way should we trade for Westbrook

 

[boredinsalem]

Am pretty Lakers have already sold off their future picks that were available to trade - they have very little outside of AD and Lebron and no f'n way should we trade for Westbrook

They still have their 2025 picks on. Given Lebron's age, they might be terrible at that point.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Very interesting thread.

 

[illmatic99]

Very interesting thread.

Hah, happy I made this before Ant broke out and Dame opted for surgery .

I think we're mostly following my plan in the grand scheme of things but there was no reason to dump Norm if this CJ trade was on the table. Unless we do something with that TPE or Bledsoe before Thursday, we coulda just done of the trades. Instead, we are taking an absolute beating to our list of assets while losing leverage in negotiations.

 

[tykendo]

Woj said the Blazers have opened up 60 mil. of cap space with these moves. Josh Hart is a keeper and brings Dame-type tenacity to the floor. And he can flat out play. We've gone from a team that was hamstrung by big contracts and poor construction, to a team that has plenty of cap space to add the needed positions to build around a healthy , Lethal Dame . Brilliant! And i still think another move is probably coming by Thursday. I like what Joe's done so far. I look forward to how he constructs the future.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Woj said the Blazers have opened up 60 mil. of cap space with these moves. Josh Hart is a keeper and brings Dame-type tenacity to the floor. And he can flat out play. We've gone from a team that was hamstrung by big contracts and poor construction, to a team that has plenty of cap space to add the needed positions to build around a healthy , Lethal Dame . Brilliant! And i still think another move is probably coming by Thursday. I like what Joe's done so far. I look forward to how he constructs the future.

apparently, Hart has one of the most desirable contracts out there. It's not obvious we're keeping him.

Next year's rotation
Dame, Ant, Little, x, Nurk
x, x, x, x

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Woj said the Blazers have opened up 60 mil. of cap space with these moves. Josh Hart is a keeper and brings Dame-type tenacity to the floor. And he can flat out play. We've gone from a team that was hamstrung by big contracts and poor construction, to a team that has plenty of cap space to add the needed positions to build around a healthy , Lethal Dame . Brilliant! And i still think another move is probably coming by Thursday. I like what Joe's done so far. I look forward to how he constructs the future.

I think Winslow and Hart are great role players. We just need to fill out the rest of the stat sheet.

 

[tykendo]

I think Winslow and Hart are great role players. We just need to fill out the rest of the stat sheet.

Hart is a keeper. He's real good.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Hart is a keeper. He's real good.

Its a shame we had to give up 3 NBA starters and 2 pretty good bench guys to get it done.

 

[Hoopguru]

Woj said the Blazers have opened up 60 mil. of cap space with these moves. Josh Hart is a keeper and brings Dame-type tenacity to the floor. And he can flat out play. We've gone from a team that was hamstrung by big contracts and poor construction, to a team that has plenty of cap space to add the needed positions to build around a healthy , Lethal Dame . Brilliant! And i still think another move is probably coming by Thursday. I like what Joe's done so far. I look forward to how he constructs the future.

I agree that prob another trade before deadline, which could explain the time line of the first trade.
Im convinced that now that Joe has allowed Chauncey and Dame to help target certain players and that it is a process that will go into off-season.
Im starting to believe that Joe will have the interim tag removed.
Ive been a advocate of the team selling but I dont see that happening as The Sly Dog pointed to possible contingencies in the trust?
Compare value increase of NBA teams versus S&P500 over the last 10 years.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Team building was Olshey's worst trait. I think he had no clue on how to build synergy between the players to develop an on-court product that was better than the sum of the parts. And given our relatively barren chest of assets, figuring out the right pieces to put together is vital. For all intents and purposes, this season is done. We OWE it to Dame to build quickly around him and we have multiple templates on how best to go about this. But there can't be any room for error in decision making or picks.

Here's how I see it:

1. Convince Dame of a quick rebuild and to get surgery asap.
1a. Add that 100 mil extension in the summer as incentive for him to stay. It is a bullet we have to bite, but the shock value will wear off once the new TV deal kicks in and bumps the cap again.

2. Tank. Getting a top 3 pick can jumpstart our rebuild in a big way.

3. Duck the tax. I want that full MLE this summer.

4. Get whatever assets you can for Roco. And I have no intention of losing yet another FA for nothing in return. We need to target players/picks who we will have on the books for more than just this year. I think a team like Minny/NY will cave and drop a first for Roco. Utah and GS have also been rumored. Getting our pick back from CHI could be a simple deal, but ideally I'd want more especially considering we'll keep it anyway for missing the playoffs.

5. I'm torn on Nurk. First instinct is to trade him simply for change, but we might be able to get him for cheap this summer given how few teams are in the market for a 15-20 mil C. I'd gauge what Klutch is looking for and deal him somewhere where we can either get contracts that extend past this year for commensurate talent at either F or C, or picks.

6. I don't trade CJ until the summer unless an obvious deal (Simmons/Siakam) presents itself. I don't see too many teams interested in him right now, while more might be inclined in the summer. But he eventually has to go.

7. Keep Nas at all costs. This is our Mikal Bridges equivalent. Also, keep Larry. He's on a very reasonable and tradeable contract that expires in 2023. Could be a future trade chip.

8. If we can find an upgrade at any position from Norm, move him. I'm OK keeping him as well. He's an average starter quality player who makes a very reasonable amount of money whose contract will always be tradeable.

9. If we can't find a deal for a similar caliber player as Ant at a forward position, pay Ant (~15 mil/4 yrs). He could develop into our permanent super 6th man that many hoped CJ would become.

By start of next season, I want Dame fully recovered and engaged. No more of this cryptic bullshit that deters potential FAs. That is key. Then I want a top rookie prospect and the right developmental coaches to get him to star level in 3 yrs. Then ancillary pieces that FIT. Get size/defense/athleticism. I just don't know if Cronin is the guy to be able to accomplish all this, or if he's empowered by this completely disengaged ownership to execute his plan.

you are basically a prophet aren't you?

i love reading your posts about the team!

 

[Scalma]

Hart is a keeper. He's real good.

I like hart, RAPTOR had his WAR almost identical to CJs. Not as good offensively obviously but not useless either. Much better defender and also one of the better rebounding guards in the league. Much better fit next to Dame, but as mentioned, he’s also got an attractive contract so he could be moved anytime.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Team building was Olshey's worst trait. I think he had no clue on how to build synergy between the players to develop an on-court product that was better than the sum of the parts. And given our relatively barren chest of assets, figuring out the right pieces to put together is vital. For all intents and purposes, this season is done. We OWE it to Dame to build quickly around him and we have multiple templates on how best to go about this. But there can't be any room for error in decision making or picks.

Here's how I see it:

1. Convince Dame of a quick rebuild and to get surgery asap.
1a. Add that 100 mil extension in the summer as incentive for him to stay. It is a bullet we have to bite, but the shock value will wear off once the new TV deal kicks in and bumps the cap again.

2. Tank. Getting a top 3 pick can jumpstart our rebuild in a big way.

3. Duck the tax. I want that full MLE this summer.

4. Get whatever assets you can for Roco. And I have no intention of losing yet another FA for nothing in return. We need to target players/picks who we will have on the books for more than just this year. I think a team like Minny/NY will cave and drop a first for Roco. Utah and GS have also been rumored. Getting our pick back from CHI could be a simple deal, but ideally I'd want more especially considering we'll keep it anyway for missing the playoffs.

5. I'm torn on Nurk. First instinct is to trade him simply for change, but we might be able to get him for cheap this summer given how few teams are in the market for a 15-20 mil C. I'd gauge what Klutch is looking for and deal him somewhere where we can either get contracts that extend past this year for commensurate talent at either F or C, or picks.

6. I don't trade CJ until the summer unless an obvious deal (Simmons/Siakam) presents itself. I don't see too many teams interested in him right now, while more might be inclined in the summer. But he eventually has to go.

7. Keep Nas at all costs. This is our Mikal Bridges equivalent. Also, keep Larry. He's on a very reasonable and tradeable contract that expires in 2023. Could be a future trade chip.

8. If we can find an upgrade at any position from Norm, move him. I'm OK keeping him as well. He's an average starter quality player who makes a very reasonable amount of money whose contract will always be tradeable.

9. If we can't find a deal for a similar caliber player as Ant at a forward position, pay Ant (~15 mil/4 yrs). He could develop into our permanent super 6th man that many hoped CJ would become.

By start of next season, I want Dame fully recovered and engaged. No more of this cryptic bullshit that deters potential FAs. That is key. Then I want a top rookie prospect and the right developmental coaches to get him to star level in 3 yrs. Then ancillary pieces that FIT. Get size/defense/athleticism. I just don't know if Cronin is the guy to be able to accomplish all this, or if he's empowered by this completely disengaged ownership to execute his plan.

This is the best case, rose-colored glasses scenario - and if I were Dame it wouldn't budge me an inch. At this point, if Dame isn't asking out, it's just because he really wants that Super-Max. There is no fucking way that we have a path to being as good as the team was 2 seasons ago, when we weren't even a homecourt-in-the-West team. I mean, maybe if we were Miami Dame could persuade another superstar to come here, but we aren't and he can't.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

If we acquire Grant and keep Dame I will be more depressed than if we trade Dame, because it means we're trying to convince ourselves that we can contend with Dame again before he's washed up, and we just can't. Haven't we been fooling ourselves for long enough?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

If we really were to try to build a contender around Dame, here is how I think I'd attempt to go about it. (Bear in mind that a lot of this is wishful thinking, but that's because the very idea of building a contender round Dame is wishful thinking.)

Acquire: Ben Simmons, Deandre Ayton
Starters: Dame, Hart, Simmons, Ayton and forward who can shoot and defend (ideally we manage to keep our pick, get the #1 and take Jabari Smith, failing that we settle for Keegan Murray)

Players sacrificed to get Simmons and Ayton: Simons, Nurk (both sign-and-trade), Nas, probably our lottery pick

How would we get Ayton? Because the Suns' owner is a cheap asshole, otherwise he would've already given Ayton an extension. But as it is, he probably thinks they're fine with the much cheaper troika of Javale, Biyombo and Jalen Smith. We could sign-and-trade, giving them cheap assets or, if they like, Nurk, plus lots of cap space.
How would we get Simmons? A signed-and-traded Anfernee. Personally, as I have made clear often, I think we're better off keeping Anfernee and trading Dame, but either way, it makes no sense to keep both (they're both mediocre defenders at best, and they don't complement each other, as Simons is at his best when he's the #1 and plays for most of the game), and so in this scenario we give up Ant.

This gives us a well-balanced team that is very solid defensively despite having Dame, and has a lot in common with the current Suns. Also, if we're lucky, it gives us a team that starts three overall #1 picks.

(The likelihood would be, I know, that to have any shot at both Simmons and Ayton, we would have to give up our pick, but in that scenario we should insist on a first rounder in return and hope for a Herb Jones. I have given up hope that that would be Nas, or that if it were, that he could stay healthy, so we have to strike gold here.)

Now, there are no doubt doubters of both Simmons (who has trashed his value - which is why we can even dream of getting him for less than Dame) and Ayton. We've talked Simmons to death (but I think even his doubters would agree that a Dame and Simmons COMBO would be one where each's strengths shore up the other's weaknesses), so, Ayton. Is he worth the max he will no doubt require? I think so. What's great about him is that he has no glaring weakness. Unlike Gobert, he can hit jumpshots and guard the perimeter. Unlike (say) Chet Holmgren, he can't be pushed around easily, even by the Jokics and Embiids. But he's not a headcase who'll sulk if he's not the focus of the offense. If anything he needs to be told to assert himself more. But I feel confident that Chauncey can do that. And if you unlock his potential, he's like a new age David Robinson: big as a center, nimble as a small forward.

Now, does this stand any chance of happening? No, which is why we have to trade Dame. But hey, I'd be first in line cheering if it did happen.

 

[BonesJones]

If we really were to try to build a contender around Dame, here is how I think I'd attempt to go about it. (Bear in mind that a lot of this is wishful thinking, but that's because the very idea of building a contender round Dame is wishful thinking.)

Acquire: Ben Simmons, Deandre Ayton
Starters: Dame, Hart, Simmons, Ayton and forward who can shoot and defend (ideally we manage to keep our pick, get the #1 and take Jabari Smith, failing that we settle for Keegan Murray)

Players sacrificed to get Simmons and Ayton: Simons, Nurk (both sign-and-trade), Nas, probably our lottery pick

How would we get Ayton? Because the Suns' owner is a cheap asshole, otherwise he would've already given Ayton an extension. But as it is, he probably thinks they're fine with the much cheaper troika of Javale, Biyombo and Jalen Smith. We could sign-and-trade, giving them cheap assets or, if they like, Nurk, plus lots of cap space.
How would we get Simmons? A signed-and-traded Anfernee. Personally, as I have made clear often, I think we're better off keeping Anfernee and trading Dame, but either way, it makes no sense to keep both (they're both mediocre defenders at best, and they don't complement each other, as Simons is at his best when he's the #1 and plays for most of the game), and so in this scenario we give up Ant.

This gives us a well-balanced team that is very solid defensively despite having Dame, and has a lot in common with the current Suns. Also, if we're lucky, it gives us a team that starts three overall #1 picks.

(The likelihood would be, I know, that to have any shot at both Simmons and Ayton, we would have to give up our pick, but in that scenario we should insist on a first rounder in return and hope for a Herb Jones. I have given up hope that that would be Nas, or that if it were, that he could stay healthy, so we have to strike gold here.)

Now, there are no doubt doubters of both Simmons (who has trashed his value - which is why we can even dream of getting him for less than Dame) and Ayton. We've talked Simmons to death (but I think even his doubters would agree that a Dame and Simmons COMBO would be one where each's strengths shore up the other's weaknesses), so, Ayton. Is he worth the max he will no doubt require? I think so. What's great about him is that he has no glaring weakness. Unlike Gobert, he can hit jumpshots and guard the perimeter. Unlike (say) Chet Holmgren, he can't be pushed around easily, even by the Jokics and Embiids. But he's not a headcase who'll sulk if he's not the focus of the offense. If anything he needs to be told to assert himself more. But I feel confident that Chauncey can do that. And if you unlock his potential, he's like a new age David Robinson: big as a center, nimble as a small forward.

Now, does this stand any chance of happening? No, which is why we have to trade Dame. But hey, I'd be first in line cheering if it did happen.

Might as well just add Giannis to your plan at this point.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Might as well just add Giannis to your plan at this point.

Rather than snark, why not analyze? Which part of his plan do you find to be unrealistic? And what would make that aspect more plausible?

 

[Idog1976]

If we really were to try to build a contender around Dame, here is how I think I'd attempt to go about it. (Bear in mind that a lot of this is wishful thinking, but that's because the very idea of building a contender round Dame is wishful thinking.)

Acquire: Ben Simmons, Deandre Ayton
Starters: Dame, Hart, Simmons, Ayton and forward who can shoot and defend (ideally we manage to keep our pick, get the #1 and take Jabari Smith, failing that we settle for Keegan Murray)

Players sacrificed to get Simmons and Ayton: Simons, Nurk (both sign-and-trade), Nas, probably our lottery pick

How would we get Ayton? Because the Suns' owner is a cheap asshole, otherwise he would've already given Ayton an extension. But as it is, he probably thinks they're fine with the much cheaper troika of Javale, Biyombo and Jalen Smith. We could sign-and-trade, giving them cheap assets or, if they like, Nurk, plus lots of cap space.
How would we get Simmons? A signed-and-traded Anfernee. Personally, as I have made clear often, I think we're better off keeping Anfernee and trading Dame, but either way, it makes no sense to keep both (they're both mediocre defenders at best, and they don't complement each other, as Simons is at his best when he's the #1 and plays for most of the game), and so in this scenario we give up Ant.

This gives us a well-balanced team that is very solid defensively despite having Dame, and has a lot in common with the current Suns. Also, if we're lucky, it gives us a team that starts three overall #1 picks.

(The likelihood would be, I know, that to have any shot at both Simmons and Ayton, we would have to give up our pick, but in that scenario we should insist on a first rounder in return and hope for a Herb Jones. I have given up hope that that would be Nas, or that if it were, that he could stay healthy, so we have to strike gold here.)

Now, there are no doubt doubters of both Simmons (who has trashed his value - which is why we can even dream of getting him for less than Dame) and Ayton. We've talked Simmons to death (but I think even his doubters would agree that a Dame and Simmons COMBO would be one where each's strengths shore up the other's weaknesses), so, Ayton. Is he worth the max he will no doubt require? I think so. What's great about him is that he has no glaring weakness. Unlike Gobert, he can hit jumpshots and guard the perimeter. Unlike (say) Chet Holmgren, he can't be pushed around easily, even by the Jokics and Embiids. But he's not a headcase who'll sulk if he's not the focus of the offense. If anything he needs to be told to assert himself more. But I feel confident that Chauncey can do that. And if you unlock his potential, he's like a new age David Robinson: big as a center, nimble as a small forward.

Now, does this stand any chance of happening? No, which is why we have to trade Dame. But hey, I'd be first in line cheering if it did happen.

This is actually a somewhat plausible scenario. Unlikely to be sure, but plausible. Nas, plus Simons plus our pick could surely get you Simmons I think or at least they wouldn't hang up on you. Ayton could be had for a max contract, I actually see that as the less plausible part. A core of Dame, Simmons and Ayton is pretty sweet. I like this idea despite it being wildly implausible, but not impossible.

 

[STOMP]

With a bad back, massive contract, tons of bad press juju & other undefined but acknowledged personal issues, I'd imagine that Ben Simmons is probably available. I doubt that Ayton is going anywhere though. The Suns owner is currently enjoying a cash windfall of obscene portions, why would he do anything to upset that apple cart? Resigning Ayton is a small pittance when the entire state of Arizona is Suns crazy.

STOMP

 

[Tince]

To be a real contender to win it all you need an MVP and an all-star or two all-NBA players on your roster.

Dame probably isn't a legit MVP candidate for multiple reasons. This means we need to pair an all-NBA player with him. Right now, that path doesn't look great. However, the odds of us trading away Dame and getting an all-NBA player probably isn't great. The odds of us trading away Dame and getting 2 all-NBA players seems incredibly low.

Having said that, you have to keep Dame, and get real lucky in the draft. Probably shouldn't trade 5 1st round draft picks for RoCo, Collins, and Nance either. 5 1st round picks should be enough to get you an all-star.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Building around Dame is completely foolish

Portland’s problem, AGAIN, is that Dame and Ant don’t really compliment each other, so if you are building around Dame, Ant has to go.

The team needs to be loaded with 6’6” - 6’11” wing players that can all shoot and LOVE to play defense

Think Portis, Tucker, Thybulle, Butler types

Then, because of Dame, we need a real rim protector. A deterrent if you will. Nurk is a good defender, but teams don’t fear him

He’s probably the greatest player in franchise history, and we can easily build a playoff contending team around Dame, but championship contending teams are built around offensive diversity and defense. That’s not something we get from Dame

 

[Fairly-Hard]

I'm ready to sit back and watch as the Jazz, Nets and Lakers make changes. The way things are starting to shape up the Blazers might have some ways to land a player that could really make a difference.
The teams doing well in the playoffs have length but are not dependent on a true center and they have depth to get past injuries. The last time the Blazers had a true contender they were possibly the deepest team in the league (2000).

They need to add more solid players that can help all season long and into the playoffs.

Edit- Not!

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Building around Dame is completely foolish

Portland’s problem, AGAIN, is that Dame and Ant don’t really compliment each other, so if you are building around Dame, Ant has to go.

The team needs to be loaded with 6’6” - 6’11” wing players that can all shoot and LOVE to play defense

Think Portis, Tucker, Thybulle, Butler types

Then, because of Dame, we need a real rim protector. A deterrent if you will. Nurk is a good defender, but teams don’t fear him

He’s probably the greatest player in franchise history, and we can easily build a playoff contending team around Dame, but championship contending teams are built around offensive diversity and defense. That’s not something we get from Dame

So, S/T Nurk (along with EBEC) for Gobert, S/T Simons for some 3/D wing, draft Tari Eason, and roll with that?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

With a bad back, massive contract, tons of bad press juju & other undefined but acknowledged personal issues, I'd imagine that Ben Simmons is probably available.

This is where Chauncey earns his money. (The bad back is not optimal, but as somebody who's had a bulging disk for nearly 30 years, they can be managed very well with the right stretching.)

I doubt that Ayton is going anywhere though. The Suns owner is currently enjoying a cash windfall of obscene portions, why would he do anything to upset that apple cart? Resigning Ayton is a small pittance when the entire state of Arizona is Suns crazy.

Agreed. But then again, everybody was kind of amazed that he wasn't signed to an extension already. And this year the Suns have won fairly well without him (Javale McGee's numbers are surprisingly similar to Ayton's), so I can imagine a scenario where Sarver wants to save his cash, especially given that re-signing Ayton means admitting he was wrong not to give him an extension (and Ayton will cost more now).