Require parents who don’t want a child vaccinated to get a science lesson

[Denny Crane]

Funny that polio was eradicated without requiring, by law, that anyone had to take the vaccine.

 

[RR7]

I would agree with you on many similar issues, but I don't think it's quite so clear cut with some vaccines since some diseases might require a grand plan to it eradicate the disease. Polio for example is a thing of the past because we were able to vaccinate the vast majority of kid for years. There will be a tipping point at witch if too many opt out of vaccinations then large scale disease could result. Right now we are talking dozens of deaths per year, what if that projected to become thousands or millions of deaths.

If it comes back, it'd stand to reason that only the non-vaccinated kids would be getting polio, and then the problem would kind of fix itself, no?

 

[Further]

Also, the vaccinations for those that do get them can become less complete if many opt out, because that provides more chances for the virus to mutate and no longer be prevented by a vaccine. So even if you get your kids vaccinated, if enough people opt out of the program your children will be at a greater risk for catching a variant of the infectious disease.

 

[Further]

Funny that polio was eradicated without requiring, by law, that anyone had to take the vaccine.

Pre Internet times, a different world.

 

[Further]

If it comes back, it'd stand to reason that only the non-vaccinated kids would be getting polio, and then the problem would kind of fix itself, no?

If it comes back we are fucked because I don't think anyone gets it anymore.

But, I understand what you are saying. It would work itself out "killing or hobbling kids" as long as there were no mutation. But the longer it were out there, and the more bodies that were infected, the more likely that there would be a mutation making vaccinated people susceptible.

 

[Denny Crane]

Pre Internet times, a different world.

Humbug.

It wasn't the government that did it. It was the Mellon family granting big bucks to the research and the private march of dimes charity that encouraged the vaccinations.

 

[Further]

Humbug.

It wasn't the government that did it. It was the Mellon family granting big bucks to the research and the private march of dimes charity that encouraged the vaccinations.

Interesting, I didn't know that.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Humbug.

It wasn't the government that did it. It was the Mellon family granting big bucks to the research and the private march of dimes charity that encouraged the vaccinations.

In 1947, Salk accepted an appointment to the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine. In 1948, he undertook a project funded by the National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis to determine the number of different types of polio virus. Salk saw an opportunity to extend this project towards developing a vaccine against polio, and, together with the skilled research team he assembled, devoted himself to this work for the next seven years. The field trial set up to test the Salk vaccine was, according to O'Neill, "the most elaborate program of its kind in history, involving 20,000 physicians and public health officers, 64,000 school personnel, and 220,000 volunteers." Over 1,800,000 school children took part in the trial.[3] When news of the vaccine's success was made public on April 12, 1955, Salk was hailed as a "miracle worker," and the day "almost became a national holiday." His sole focus had been to develop a safe and effective vaccine as rapidly as possible, with no interest in personal profit. When he was asked in a televised interview who owned the patent to the vaccine, Salk replied: "There is no patent. Could you patent the sun?"[4]

 

[Further]

Despite a decades-long public healthy campaign, just over 40% of Americans get flu shots — a number that hasn’t budged in years. But research suggests that if twice as many people get them annually, the flu could be all but eradicated.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/what-would-wipe-out-the-flu-2012-11-30

 

[Denny Crane]

In 1947, Salk accepted an appointment to the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine. In 1948, he undertook a project funded by the National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis to determine the number of different types of polio virus. Salk saw an opportunity to extend this project towards developing a vaccine against polio, and, together with the skilled research team he assembled, devoted himself to this work for the next seven years. The field trial set up to test the Salk vaccine was, according to O'Neill, "the most elaborate program of its kind in history, involving 20,000 physicians and public health officers, 64,000 school personnel, and 220,000 volunteers." Over 1,800,000 school children took part in the trial.[3] When news of the vaccine's success was made public on April 12, 1955, Salk was hailed as a "miracle worker," and the day "almost became a national holiday." His sole focus had been to develop a safe and effective vaccine as rapidly as possible, with no interest in personal profit. When he was asked in a televised interview who owned the patent to the vaccine, Salk replied: "There is no patent. Could you patent the sun?"[4]

National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis was the march of dimes. UofPitt was a private school.

Next?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/what-would-wipe-out-the-flu-2012-11-30

Flu shots gave Jenny McCarthy's dog feline leukemia.

They're bad.

 

[Further]

Flu shots gave Jenny McCarthy's dog feline leukemia.

They're bad.

Gotta spread my rep around. Haha.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis was the march of dimes. UofPitt was a private school.

Next?

LOL! Wasn't arguing with you. I just think it's pretty amazing that Salk refused to file for a patent. (and yes I know that some argue whether a patent would have been granted but the fact is he never tried. )

 

[Denny Crane]

LOL! Wasn't arguing with you. I just think it's pretty amazing that Salk refused to file for a patent. (and yes I know that some argue whether a patent would have been granted but the fact is he never tried. )

There were competing vaccines. I don't think it was an option.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

There were competing vaccines. I don't think it was an option.

LOL! When isn't filling a lawsuit an option?

 

[Denny Crane]

I'd add that the polio vaccine was discovered before Ike signed the Federal Highway Act in 1956, and 30 years before there was a US Dept. of Education.

Government can do no wrong, though!

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/diet/themes/lowfat.html

The obesity epidemic starts between 1976, say, and 1986. We're fairly confident about that because there're these series of National Health Examination surveys, and we know that in the third NHANES survey, obesity rates are still 14 percent.

Up until about 1980.

Yeah. Basically, up until about 1980, the obesity rates in this country are 12 to 14 percent. And then somewhere in that period between the late '70s and late '80s, they shoot up to 22-25 percent. That's known as the obesity epidemic, and the idea is: What explains it?

From my fat research, I already knew that there were two major changes in the country during that period. One was, high-fructose corn syrup came in as sort of the primary caloric sweetener in America, which was my personal bias. I thought that it was high-fructose corn syrup because I'm allergic to high fructose corn syrup. …

The other theory was that we started pushing the low-fat diets during this period. Starting in 1977, the government started telling all Americans to eat less fat, and starting in the mid-'80s, we started producing these low-fat products that in effect replaced the fat in the yogurt or the cookies or the whatever with carbohydrates. We went from being a country that ate about 40 percent of their calories in fat and 45 percent carbohydrates, to 34 percent fat and that much more carbohydrates. Conceivably, this belief that set in, that carbohydrates could be eaten to excess and wouldn't cause weight gain, that they were both heart healthy and the ideal diet, might have had some effect on weight.

I just went off to try and find out what the answer was. I didn't know when I went in, and the more research I did, the more it became clear that this argument, this hypothesis, the alternative hypotheses that carbohydrates cause weight gain, had validity. Didn't mean it was true. Just meant that it had validity. It could be true, and if it could be true, then the way you would check is to put people on low-carbohydrate diets. You go and look at the low-carbohydrate diet idea, and lo and behold, there's Robert Atkins, who's been pushing low-carbohydrate diets for 30 years, and people swear by them. I had my former experience where I knew that at least for me, I knew it was very easy to lose weight on this diet.

I found out while I was doing my reporting that there had been five studies recently done, clinically controlled trials comparing high-fat, high-protein diets like Atkins to low-fat, low-calorie diets of the kind the American Heart Association was recommending. And in each case, the people on the Atkins diet had twice the weight loss, and their cholesterol profiles, if anything, got better than the people on the American Heart Association diet. So I felt confident saying: Here's an alternative hypotheses that has validity. Here is one set of tests from the hypotheses, that seem to confirm it. Doesn't mean it's true, but it seems to confirm it, and what now needs to be done is more studies. …

 

[Denny Crane]

LOL! When isn't filling a lawsuit an option?

It's more likely that Salk would have been sued. People got really sick from his vaccine.

 

[jlprk]

I didn't. It was a great miracle drug. I had 2 polio girls in my 4th grade class. They barely missed the cure. Salk was a great man. Denny dislikes Salk because he was social ist.

 

[magnifier661]

Vaccinations are the devil

 

[magnifier661]

I didn't. It was a great miracle drug. I had 2 polio girls in my 4th grade class. They barely missed the cure. Salk was a great man. Denny dislikes Salk because he was social ist.

The miracle drug is LSD; not some small pox vaccine!

 

[jlprk]

Well that's true.

LOL! Wasn't arguing with you. I just think it's pretty amazing that Salk refused to file for a patent. (and yes I know that some argue whether a patent would have been granted but the fact is he never tried. )

It was Salk's ideology to not get rich.

 

[crandc]

Correlation does not imply causation.

Thank you thank you thank you!!!!

It's like saying my arthritis caused my cat's arthritis. After all, I got arthritis in my hands and not long after he got arthritis in his front paws. Clearly, he must have caught it from me. Or maybe we are so in sync he gets my diseases.

Or you could look at the actual facts and known science and conclude my cat and I are both getting older and therefore both got arthritis.

I think maybe fewer laws were needed at the time of the polio vaccine because memory was still fresh. All those who were children in the 60s had parents who had known people, including President Roosevelt, dead or crippled with polio. Now, at least in industrialized countries, it's seen as a distant threat. Not nearly as sexy as some celebrity on talk shows.

Having nearly died of measles weeks before the vaccine became available, I wonder, how many of these folks want to see their children die?

And still no one is being forced to vaccinate. Just learn facts.

 

[Eastoff]

Obesity has gone up dramatically in the US. Where is Jenny McCarthy's outcry?

 

[Eastoff]

The Journal of Pediatrics is in on it too! :MARIS61:

 

[Eastoff]

Stop the child abuse!

 

[Eastoff]

And here are FOURTY-ONE studies that show there is no link between vaccines and autism.

 

[Denny Crane]

Well that's true.



It was Salk's ideology to not get rich.

I know a very rich man. He literally invented Ethernet. He got a patent for it and put it in the public domain.

From what I've read, Salk was a very wealthy man for his time.

 

[Eastoff]

Funny that polio was eradicated without requiring, by law, that anyone had to take the vaccine.

Just to point out, the literal crippling effects of polio were everywhere when it was not mandated. The few hundreds of deaths from not vaccinating are just starting to get noticed within the last year.

 

[Denny Crane]

Just to point out, the literal crippling effects of polio were everywhere when it was not mandated. The few hundreds of deaths from not vaccinating are just starting to get noticed within the last year.

They really should send in jack booted thugs to drag kids away from their homes and force them to take these injections, right?

 

[Eastoff]

They really should send in jack booted thugs to drag kids away from their homes and force them to take these injections, right?

I'm just saying the consequences were not as obvious, nor was anyone crying the fears of imagined side effects.