Sam Amico: Blazers have talked to Sixers about Noel

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Though I'm weary of big men with injury issues, I am a big Noel fan. I watched him at Kentucky and was impressed with his energy and prowess on the defensive end. His offensive game needs work, but with ball-centric guards like Dame and CJ, I'd fine with a big that doesn't need the ball, but can be an energy and clean up guy on offense.

You have to like the potential and the haircut.
 
Guys, Portland would be paying Crabbes trade kicker, not philly. Also, Crabbe could theoretically waive it, but since Philly is under the cap, I don't see that being an option since there is no need to match salaries.
 
I'd be extremely disappointed in Olshey if he hasn't talked with every team in the league that has a good defensive big man that the Blazers might be able to acquire.
 
Why does Philadelphia trade Noel for Crabbe? The answer isn't "center logjam"...they could cut Noel and be better off than taking back Crabbe's horrendous contract.

They want to trade Noel for some value--he's not a murderer that they want to escape at all costs.
 
Guys, Portland would be paying Crabbes trade kicker, not philly. Also, Crabbe could theoretically waive it, but since Philly is under the cap, I don't see that being an option since there is no need to match salaries.
Are you sure about that? Had always figured the other way around. If that's the case, his value to others should improve a little bit.

From -100 to -95
 
The other teams mentioned in Noel trade rumors are Toronto & Boston.

When you consider what the 76ers need, a sharpshooting guard, neither Toronto nor Boston have a spare, and would need to trade their starter, DeRozan or Bradley. Probably not happening.

The dark horse team maybe Phoenix trading Knight.

It is a shame Crabbe is taking a crap so far this season, he gives us a shot at Noel. Add in Crabbe’s bloated contract, and he has negative trade value at this time. We would need to add Cleveland’s first just to get his trade value back to neutral.

If Crabbe can turn it around, he may get his starting job, in Philly. There is plenty of time for him to improve before the deadline. But I am not holding my breath.
 
I don't wanna let go of Hark for Noel
That's why trades don't happen that often... It's actually a hard decision. As you pointed out, it's not "take a low, low 1st round pick (of which you've had a zillion) and our dude who's paid like a superstar but has only a PER of 8, for your stud."
 
I don't wanna let go of Hark for Noel

Whose minutes do we see Noel taking? I would start with those players. Vonleh and/or Aminu might be candidates....plus our extra 1st round draft pick. This of course is assuming that he passes a physical.
 
I would think that many GM's don't evaluate Noel as so valuable. He has played 142 of a possible 264 games for Philadelphia. He is a big injury risk. But, it is a big risk to Portland to hold onto Crabbe's salary with his present performance. high risk, high reward for both teams. Maybe it could happen.
 
Crabbe is eventually going to come around and start shooting the ball well - it's only a matter of time. This is not a new normal for him. GMs know this.
 
Whose minutes do we see Noel taking? I would start with those players. Vonleh and/or Aminu might be candidates....plus our extra 1st round draft pick. This of course is assuming that he passes a physical.
Aminu/Ed/Meyers/Noah are on the table.

If we can move AC, do it.

Add in our pick or CLE pick next year.

Philly has no use for any of our players as they too have a clog up front.
 
The other teams mentioned in Noel trade rumors are Toronto & Boston.

When you consider what the 76ers need, a sharpshooting guard, neither Toronto nor Boston have a spare, and would need to trade their starter, DeRozan or Bradley. Probably not happening.

The dark horse team maybe Phoenix trading Knight.

Which would mean they'd probably want to clear minutes in their frontcourt for Noel. I bet they'd like to get rid of Chandler, who doesn't fit their window, but would be a perfect match for our needs. I'd happily swap Meyers for Chandler.

Or Crabbe.
 
Oh shit! I just saw Noel at Lloyd Center, NO JOKE FAMS!
Probably lots of Noel's at Lloyd Center. And Merry Christmases, and Happy Holidays, and many other winter greetings in various storefronts. In fact, I'd be surprised if you didn't see "Noel" in several places at the mall.
 
Aminu/Ed/Meyers/Noah are on the table.

If we can move AC, do it.

Add in our pick or CLE pick next year.

Philly has no use for any of our players as they too have a clog up front.

Yeah you are right. I keep forgetting about Saric. If he is any good, and right now he is not shooting well, (but he is a rookie) he and Simmons are their future forwards. They need guards who can shoot from deep.
 
Crabbe is eventually going to come around and start shooting the ball well - it's only a matter of time. This is not a new normal for him. GMs know this.

That assumes that last season was a new normal for him, rather than an unusually good season. GMs don't know that. How he's playing this year is more in line with how he played before last season. There's a perfectly good chance that Crabbe had somewhat of a fluke season last year, cashed in but wasn't on the verge of any kind of breakout.

And even last season, he wasn't great or worth what he's now being paid. His defense was as terrible as this year and his offensive win shares were only slightly positive. He was paid as a rising young player, with the expectation that he'd improve further. If he only played like last season, he'd be significantly overpaid. If he regresses to pre-2015 levels, he's a complete salary cap albatross. There's a ton of risk and not necessarily a huge upside at his salary.
 
It's funny I remember when everyone was saying that Barton couldn't shoot and wouldn't stick in the league. Well, all he needed was consistent playing time and a set role. Same with Crabbe. You put him on a team where he gets consistent shots, and he'll more than likely take off. GMs aren't judging him off of what he is with the Blazers but rather what he could develop into for their respective teams
 
I would want us to keep Crabbe.
I think the problem with him and Turner is they're being misused in the 2nd unit as they're playing together at the 2 and 3, sometimes without even a real PG alongside them.
We play no backup guards, Napier, Caughnaton and Quarterman are maybe not good enough to get actual playing time but this is our biggest issue right now.
I would actualy trade for a 3rd guard before looking to bring a rim protector, even though I like Noel.
If we had another solid guard to have a 3-guard rotation (say 36 mins for Dame and CJ, 24 minutes for another guard) we'd be that much better and both Crabbe and Turner would be more efficient
 
Crabbe is both BYC (cannot be traded for a year without his consent) and has a trade kicker which is likely 15%.

EDIT:

Turner cannot be traded until December 15
Leonard cannot be traded until January 15
Mo cannot be traded until January 15

If a deal is to be made before then, our tradable players are:
Aminu, Davis, Vonley, Plumlee, Napier, Connaughton, and Layman

We could trade several of the above, if that would satisfy both sides to trade.

Plus we can offer whatever draft picks.

I don't see it. Unless, maybe, Crabbe is willing to agree to go to Philly.
 
I would want us to keep Crabbe.
I think the problem with him and Turner is they're being misused in the 2nd unit as they're playing together at the 2 and 3, sometimes without even a real PG alongside them.
We play no backup guards, Napier, Caughnaton and Quarterman are maybe not good enough to get actual playing time but this is our biggest issue right now.
I would actualy trade for a 3rd guard before looking to bring a rim protector, even though I like Noel.
If we had another solid guard to have a 3-guard rotation (say 36 mins for Dame and CJ, 24 minutes for another guard) we'd be that much better and both Crabbe and Turner would be more efficient

You would trade for a third PG before a starting center?
 
It's funny I remember when everyone was saying that Barton couldn't shoot and wouldn't stick in the league. Well, all he needed was consistent playing time and a set role. Same with Crabbe.

That's a really odd comparison, given that Crabbe plays EXACTLY the same role in POR that Barton plays in DEN - 6th man that plays 28 MPG off the bench. It's not like DEN made Barton a starter and played him 36 MPG.

The difference is that Barton seized the opportunity and made the most of it, whereas Crabbe got paid and put in zero effort to improve his weaknesses. There were tons of articles out early last year about how much hard work Barton put in on improving his shot and how all that hard word paid off. Barton has always been able to create his own shot, Crabbe cannot. Barton has always been a great rebounder and very good passer. Crabbe is not. Barton has always been a great finisher. Crabbe can only finish if there is no defender between him and the rim.

Here's just one of the articles about Barton's improvement:

Will Barton’s Rise More Than Circumstance

"This isn’t just a case of Barton getting significant run and finally being able to show his skills. He’s also developed as a prospect and has come a long way since being drafted 40th overall in 2012."

"The biggest skill Barton has unlocked in his time in Denver is his outside shooting. A 19.8 percent three-point shooter during his Portland tenure, he has taken an immediate leap to 35."

"While part of his success can be attributed to the higher level of comfort he has shooting with NBA defenders running at him, he’s made significant strides in his shooting motion to help improve his accuracy. He’s shooting with a higher release point and more arc on the shot to give himself a better chance of converting."

"While his production level has benefited from the spike in minutes, Barton deserves get credit for the improvements to his game."

And, another one:

Nuggets Year in Review: Will Barton

"53.5%

That was Barton's true shooting percentage this season, by far the best of his career. It's representative of the improvement Will has made in his game over this season and the increased impact he had on the Nuggets offense. Additionally, he took far far more shots this season than he has in any season prior which makes his increase in shooting efficiency even more impressive. Before the season started it was no secret that Will was one of the guys who was putting in big time hours down at the team's facility. At media day he noted how hard he had worked on his shot in the offseason and he didn't disappoint."

Barton last year in DEN averaged 14.4 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 2.5 apg, 0.9 spg, 0.5 bpg with a PER = 16.0 as a 6th man playing 28.7 MPG

This year, in POR, as a 6th man playing 27.8 mpg, Allen Crabbe is averaging 8.9 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 1.4 apg, 0.5 spg, 0.3 bpg with a PER = 9.1

Crabbe has been given the exact same opportunity in POR that Barton was given in DEN. Barton worked hard to improve the weaknesses in his game (outside shooting and decision making). Due to his hard work, he's a much better, more complete player now than when he came into the league.

Allen Crabbe is the exact same player he was when he was drafted. He's a stand still shooter who does nothing else well. He's the weakest rebounder on a weak rebounding team, a poor passer and still can't create his own shot to save his life. Where all are the articles about all the hard work Crabbe put in over the summer and how he's greatly improved his weaknesses?

And Barton makes $15 million less per year than Crabbe. All your comparison did was make me wish we'd thrown $18.5 million/year at Barton instead of Crabbe. At least then, we'd have a decent 6th man to show for it.

BNM
 
That's a really odd comparison, given that Crabbe plays EXACTLY the same role in POR that Barton plays in DEN - 6th man that plays 28 MPG off the bench. It's not like DEN made Barton a starter and played him 36 MPG.

The difference is that Barton seized the opportunity and made the most of it, whereas Crabbe got paid and put in zero effort to improve his weaknesses. There were tons of articles out early last year about how much hard work Barton put in on improving his shot and how all that hard word paid off. Barton has always been able to create his own shot, Crabbe cannot. Barton has always been a great rebounder and very good passer. Crabbe is not. Barton has always been a great finisher. Crabbe can only finish if there is no defender between him and the rim.

Here's just one of the articles about Barton's improvement:

Will Barton’s Rise More Than Circumstance

"This isn’t just a case of Barton getting significant run and finally being able to show his skills. He’s also developed as a prospect and has come a long way since being drafted 40th overall in 2012."

"The biggest skill Barton has unlocked in his time in Denver is his outside shooting. A 19.8 percent three-point shooter during his Portland tenure, he has taken an immediate leap to 35."

"While part of his success can be attributed to the higher level of comfort he has shooting with NBA defenders running at him, he’s made significant strides in his shooting motion to help improve his accuracy. He’s shooting with a higher release point and more arc on the shot to give himself a better chance of converting."

"While his production level has benefited from the spike in minutes, Barton deserves get credit for the improvements to his game."

And, another one:

Nuggets Year in Review: Will Barton

"53.5%

That was Barton's true shooting percentage this season, by far the best of his career. It's representative of the improvement Will has made in his game over this season and the increased impact he had on the Nuggets offense. Additionally, he took far far more shots this season than he has in any season prior which makes his increase in shooting efficiency even more impressive. Before the season started it was no secret that Will was one of the guys who was putting in big time hours down at the team's facility. At media day he noted how hard he had worked on his shot in the offseason and he didn't disappoint."

Barton last year in DEN averaged 14.4 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 2.5 apg, 0.9 spg, 0.5 bpg with a PER = 16.0 as a 6th man playing 28.7 MPG

This year, in POR, as a 6th man playing 27.8 mpg, Allen Crabbe is averaging 8.9 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 1.4 apg, 0.5 spg, 0.3 bpg with a PER = 9.1

Crabbe has been given the exact same opportunity in POR that Barton was given in DEN. Barton worked hard to improve the weaknesses in his game (outside shooting and decision making). Due to his hard work, he's a much better, more complete player now than when he came into the league.

Allen Crabbe is the exact same player he was when he was drafted. He's a stand still shooter who does nothing else well. He's the weakest rebounder on a weak rebounding team, a poor passer and still can't create his own shot to save his life. Where all are the articles about all the hard work Crabbe put in over the summer and how he's greatly improved his weaknesses?

And Barton makes $15 million less per year than Crabbe. All your comparison did was make me wish we'd thrown $18.5 million/year at Barton instead of Crabbe. At least then, we'd have a decent 6th man to show for it.

BNM

It's not the minutes that's noteworthy, it's the shots. For example, if Crabbe was in Brooklyn, he would be the teams primary perimeter option, shooting at will, with specific plays run just for him. Same thing with Barton in Denver. His role is a lot different than Crabbes. The minutes might be comparable, but Barton has a lot more freedom and gets more shots as well.
 
Sorry y'all hate Crabbe. Or wait, is it because Turner has improved so you can't shit on him anymore? Who's next after Crabbe starts shooting well again?

This board is going to have a MELTDOWN if (when) another team takes on Crabbes contract.
 

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