Sam Amico: Blazers have talked to Sixers about Noel

[Scalma]

LMAO No. 3 and more?? That's absurd. If they honestly think they can get that much value in return then Colangelo is out of his mind.

Probably just trolling Ainge, who's notorious for making crazy one sided offers.

 

[Scalma]

Dribbling into a pull up because a defender chased you off the 3-point line or jumped at a pump fake is different than one of CJ's pullup jumpers with a defender on his hip. The first is taking the open shot the defense gives you, the 2nd is creating your own shot.

Crabbe/Davis one two game was one of our most effective plays last season. Just saying that Crabbe can do more than just stand in the corner and wait for the ball.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

LMAO No. 3 and more?? That's absurd. If they honestly think they can get that much value in return then Colangelo is out of his mind.

That was at the draft, and after Simmons/Ingram the draft looked "meh"

I still think Philly values Noel highly but they have to understand that they are either getting a shooting wing and a pick or two OR a borderline all-star (but will have to send a high pick back to team with said borderline all-star). Those are the only two options for a big man with an injury issue and an expiring deal.

 

[BonesJones]

Crabbe/Davis one two game was one of our most effective plays last season. Just saying that Crabbe can do more than just stand in the corner and wait for the ball.

Yeah, he can stand at the top of the arc and take advantage of strong close-outs by defenders, after the ball is swung to him. Show me full highlights from a game where he had at least 2 FGs where he created them himself and not immediately off of a pass.

 

[Scalma]

You heard right. Just look at those numbers I posted in my previous reply. He is assisted on 86.1% of his made 2-pointers and 96.2% of his made 3-pointers. Those numbers are insane. Miles Plumlee, Meyers Leonard and Noah Vonleh are all more capable of creating their own shot than Allen Crabbe - a guy some people think deserves to be a stating SG in this league. I hope he is someday - for someone else.

BNM

I'm aware of Stotts' system, thanks.

Doesn't mean he's limited to that.

 

[BonesJones]

That was at the draft, and after Simmons/Ingram the draft looked "meh"

I still think Philly values Noel highly but they have to understand that they are either getting a shooting wing and a pick or two OR a borderline all-star (but will have to send a high pick back to team with said borderline all-star). Those are the only two options for a big man with an injury issue and an expiring deal.

If we somehow suck the rest of the year and aren't in playoff position, would you entertain the idea of C.J. for Noel and the right to swap our 1st round picks this year? (Assuming theirs is somewhere in the top 5).

 

[BonesJones]

I'm aware of Stotts' system, thanks.

Doesn't mean he's limited to that.

How is it Stotts system? Lillard creates for himself, CJ creates for himself, Turner creates for himself... Even Harkless creates for himself now.

 

[Scalma]

Yeah, he can stand at the top of the arc and take advantage of strong close-outs by defenders, after the ball is swung to him. Show me full highlights from a game where he had at least 2 FGs where he created them himself and not immediately off of a pass.

No problem.



3:47.

 

[BonesJones]

No problem.



3:47.

Using screens to get him open because he can't create openings himself, as he can't create his own shot.

Funny how I only saw mid range jumpers in there. If he could create his own shot he could surely get to the rim every once in a while.

 

[Scalma]

Using screens to get him open because he can't create openings himself, as he can't create his own shot.

Funny how I only saw mid range jumpers in there. If he could create his own shot he could surely get to the rim every once in a while.

Funny how you change your assessment of what he can't do as this thread goes on, but ok. I'm over his convo now.

 

[BonesJones]

If we somehow suck the rest of the year and aren't in playoff position, would you entertain the idea of C.J. for Noel and the right to swap our 1st round picks this year? (Assuming theirs is somewhere in the top 5).

Might take a little bit of filler on our part to get that pick swap. But it would give us an opportunity to land a player with better potential with C.J. and better defense while shedding salary and getting the defensive center we need.

 

[BonesJones]

Funny how you change your assessment of what he can't do as this thread goes on, but ok. I'm over his convo now.

How? He relies on other players for all of his open shots whether its passes or screens. Simple concept.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

If we somehow suck the rest of the year and aren't in playoff position, would you entertain the idea of C.J. for Noel and the right to swap our 1st round picks this year? (Assuming theirs is somewhere in the top 5).

I would entertain the idea, depending on the draft. Although I think I'd rather find a way to get full control of their first and send it to a third team for a star player to replace CJ's production. Let's say something like this:

POR: Noel, Cousins
PHI: CJ
SAC: PHI 2017 1st, CLE 1st, (and a choice of any of our players not named Lillard)

Hypothetically we could look like this:

Dame
Crabbe / Turner
Harkless / Aminu
Noel / Vonleh
Cousins / Leonard

We'd struggle with ball handling but defense would improve and so would post scoring.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I would entertain the idea, depending on the draft. Although I think I'd rather find a way to get full control of their first and send it to a third team for a star player to replace CJ's production. Let's say something like this:

POR: Noel, Cousins
PHI: CJ
SAC: PHI 2017 1st, CLE 1st, (and a choice of any of our players not named Lillard)

Hypothetically we could look like this:

Dame
Crabbe / Turner
Harkless / Aminu
Noel / Vonleh
Cousins / Leonard

We'd struggle with ball handling but defense would improve and so would post scoring.

Jesus. Am I on everyone's ignore list now?

I've been throwing basically this out there for days, except Im trading Crabbe for Noel,but the results are close to the same. not one response...

 

[BonesJones]

I would entertain the idea, depending on the draft. Although I think I'd rather find a way to get full control of their first and send it to a third team for a star player to replace CJ's production. Let's say something like this:

POR: Noel, Cousins
PHI: CJ
SAC: PHI 2017 1st, CLE 1st, (and a choice of any of our players not named Lillard)

Hypothetically we could look like this:

Dame
Crabbe / Turner
Harkless / Aminu
Noel / Vonleh
Cousins / Leonard

We'd struggle with ball handling but defense would improve and so would post scoring.

Ehh I don't like Cousins and Noel paired together. And I don't think you could give up a top 5 pick for a guy who would only be under control for another year.

Now if we're talking Paul George, then I'd do it. They've been struggling this year, and if they continue to struggle I could see them wanting to hit the reset button early and build around Myles Turner, creating a timeline where their core would hit their prime right after the Lebron era.

POR: Noel, George
PHI: CJ
IND: '17 PHI 1st (3rd?), '17 POR 1st (Mid-Round?), '18 CLE 1st, Noah Vonleh, Meyers Leonard, Ed Davis

For Indiana, they'd have 3 first round picks this year, with one top 5 pick, and two borderline lotto picks. They'd also add young players in Vonleh and Leonard to build around Turner (who's only 20!)

That would leave us with an outstanding defensive lineup around Lillard, with a lot of height and athleticism:

Lillard / Turner
George / Crabbe
Harkless / Layman
Aminu / (Harkless/Plumlee)
Noel / Plumlee /

If we couldn't land George, or someone of equal talent (Jimmy Butler?) I wouldn't trade that pick.

 

[BonesJones]

Jesus. Am I on everyone's ignore list now?

I've been throwing basically this out there for days, except Im trading Crabbe for Noel,but the results are close to the same. not one response...

Lol that's the consensus idea (Crabbe+pick for Noel) but I'm afraid Phili doesn't want Crabbe's contract.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Lol that's the consensus idea (Crabbe+pick for Noel) but I'm afraid Phili doesn't want Crabbe's contract.

Yeah but there is a second half to that. I then give up CJ and Plumlee for DMC.

 

[BonesJones]

Lillard / Turner
George / Crabbe
Harkless / Layman
Aminu / (Harkless/Plumlee)
Noel / Plumlee /

The switch potential for that lineup has me dreaming (and Stotts' switching scheme would actually be effective). George, Harkless, and Aminu can all guard positions 1 through 4. Noel could even do a good job on guards for a big man, and George and Harkless would do a great job on centers when compared to other players at SG and SF.

 

[BonesJones]

Yeah but there is a second half to that. I then give up CJ and Plumlee for DMC.

I just don't like DMC with Noel, because DMC is too slow to guard PFs, and you don't want Noel guarding PFs because he's so good around the rim defensively.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I'm aware of Stotts' system, thanks.

Doesn't mean he's limited to that.

LOL, right. It's Stott's evil system that is solely designed to make it impossible for Allen Crabbe to create his own shot. Never mind that none of our other guards have any trouble creating for themselves in that exact same system.

Allen Crabbe:
Assisted 2FG = 86.1%
Assisted 3FG% = 96.1%

Damian Lillard:
Assisted 2FG = 27.5%
Assisted 3FG% = 50.0%

C.J. MCCollum:
Assisted 2FG = 30.1%
Assisted 3FG% = 80.4%

Evan Turner:
Assisted 2FG = 11.7%
Assisted 3FG% = 81.8%

I remember when Wes Matthews played for us and the biggest criticism against Wes was he didn't have a good enough handle to create his own shot. He also played in Stotts' evil system that robs players the ability to create their own shots.

His last two years in Portland:

Wesley Matthews (2013-14):
Assisted 2FG = 54.9%
Assisted 3FG% = 94.0%

Wesley Matthews (2014-15):
Assisted 2FG = 45.1%
Assisted 3FG% = 87.3%

It sure looks like even Wes "No Handles" Matthews was capable of creating his own shots in Stotts' system. In fact, it looks like Allen Crabbe is the ONLY guard we've had since Terry Stootts has been here that hasn't been able to create his own shot. Still think it's the system that holding him back and not his skill set?

I also remember when Cuban offered Wes that ridiculous contract and as much as Wes was loved by the fans, I don't remember a single poster that thought we should match the DAL offer sheet and retain Matthews. But, you know what, right now, post ruptured Achilles tendon Wes Mattews is STILL a better player on both ends of the court than Allen Crabbe. His per game and advanced stats and 3FG% are all better than Crabbe's, and that doesn't even include the leadership, passion and work ethic he brought to the team.

Should we have matched the DAL offer sheet for Wes? No, we shouldn't have, but we did match BRK's higher offer to Crabbe and are getting less production from him than DAL is getting from old, broken down, overpaid Wes.

BNM

 

[BonesJones]

George is probably as realistic as Cousins, and fits so much better. So since their both pipedreams, I'm gonna pedal the PG13 pipedream from now on. I just can't get over how good a George, Harkless, and Aminu 2 through 4 lineup would be.

 

[blue9]

He is a very good defender when he's locked in. He's got great length and active hands. Unfortunately he tends to get grabby which leads to a lot of stupid fouls. I don't however see an inability to move laterally, so it's just a matter of finding that consistency with his feet.

Also, let's not forget that Crabbe has played his entire career under Tater Totts and his inept defensive philosophy.

 

[Orion Bailey]

LOL, right. It's Stott's evil system that is solely designed to make it impossible for Allen Crabbe to create his own shot. Never mind that none of our other guards have any trouble creating for themselves in that exact same system.

Allen Crabbe:
Assisted 2FG = 86.1%
Assisted 3FG% = 96.1%

Damian Lillard:
Assisted 2FG = 27.5%
Assisted 3FG% = 50.0%

C.J. MCCollum:
Assisted 2FG = 30.1%
Assisted 3FG% = 80.4%

Evan Turner:
Assisted 2FG = 11.7%
Assisted 3FG% = 81.8%

I remember when Wes Matthews played for us and the biggest criticism against Wes was he didn't have a good enough handle to create his own shot. He also played in Stotts' evil system that robs players the ability to create their own shots.

His last two years in Portland:

Wesley Matthews (2013-14):
Assisted 2FG = 54.9%
Assisted 3FG% = 94.0%

Wesley Matthews (2014-15):
Assisted 2FG = 45.1%
Assisted 3FG% = 87.3%

It sure looks like even Wes "No Handles" Matthews was capable of creating his own shots in Stotts' system. In fact, it looks like Allen Crabbe is the ONLY guard we've had since Terry Stootts has been here that hasn't been able to create his own shot. Still think it's the system that holding him back and not his skill set?

I also remember when Cuban offered Wes that ridiculous contract and as much as Wes was loved by the fans, I don't remember a single poster that thought we should match the DAL offer sheet and retain Matthews. But, you know what, right now, post ruptured Achilles tendon Wes Mattews is STILL a better player on both ends of the court than Allen Crabbe. His per game and advanced stats and 3FG% are all better than Crabbe's, and that doesn't even include the leadership, passion and work ethic he brought to the team.

Should we have matched the DAL offer sheet for Wes? No, we shouldn't have, but we did match BRK's higher offer to Crabbe and are getting less production from him than DAL is getting from old, broken down, overpaid Wes.

BNM

Please. just stop now. Drop the mic and walk away. This has now been put to rest. Sorry @Scalma
This many numbers dont lie....

 

[Minstrel]

POR: Noel, Cousins
PHI: CJ
SAC: PHI 2017 1st, CLE 1st, (and a choice of any of our players not named Lillard)

That "and a choice of any of our players not named Lillard" probably means Harkless. I think he's easily the most attractive trade bait on Portland's roster after Lillard and McCollum.

So, that means Portland's part of the deal would be: McCollum, Harkless, CLE 1st for Noel and Cousins.

That's not too unrealistic. It would depend on Sacramento being willing to trade low on Cousins, though, because even a good first rounder, a bad one and Harkless isn't really worth Cousins' talent. But if they feel they can't get the most out of him, they may have to trade below his value. The real problem is that another team will likely out-bid that and leverage is based on the best offer.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Should we have matched the DAL offer sheet for Wes? No, we shouldn't have, but we did match BRK's higher offer to Crabbe and are getting less production from him than DAL is getting from old, broken down, overpaid Wes.

Nobody is denying that Crabbe is having a shitty year. You seem to think it's because he's a shitty player. So what happened last year? He was possessed by the soul of a better player? If not, are you suggesting that he is now
(a) over the hill
(b) dogging it.

Neither seems particularly plausible.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Nobody is denying that Crabbe is having a shitty year. You seem to think it's because he's a shitty player. So what happened last year? He was possessed by the soul of a better player? If not, are you suggesting that he is now
(a) over the hill
(b) dogging it.

Neither seems particularly plausible.

Not sure why (b) doesn't seem plausible.

His PER = 12.2 "breakout" season just happened to occur during a contract year. He got paid and reverted to the player he used to be. It's not like that hasn't happened before.

Not sure if that's considered "dogging it", but he sure as hell didn't do anything over the off season to improve his game in any way. Every year Wes was here he worked his ass off in the off season and came back with some new or improved skill. Crabbe is still the exact same player we drafted. He hasn't added a single new skill to his game. His paycheck got a HUGE upgrade. His game didn't.

BNM

 

[Orion Bailey]

Nobody is denying that Crabbe is having a shitty year. You seem to think it's because he's a shitty player. So what happened last year? He was possessed by the soul of a better player? If not, are you suggesting that he is now
(a) over the hill
(b) dogging it.

Neither seems particularly plausible.

Wait.

So last year Crabbe was a complete stud or something? I'm kinda confused at how so many people thought he had SUCH a good year last year? Maybe for HIM yes, but for the league?

I think his play this year year is closer to his average play than last year being a stepping stone to becoming a star or something. He doesn't have the skills. Anyone watching the games can see this. He can't create his own shot. End of story.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Crabbe is still the exact same player we drafted.

That's just patently false. When he was the featured player in SL '15 he was hitting all kinds of shots that he'd never been good at before. But of course, once he got paid, he had his brain wiped of that now redundant skill. Like a sea squirt eating its own brains when it's found a place to live.

 

[Minstrel]

Yeah, I'm not sure why the legend of Allen Crabbe has grown so much from last year. He wasn't that good last year. He shot a career-high three-point percentage (but nothing otherworldly) but otherwise wasn't much different from the years before that. This year, his three-point percentage has regressed and he's back to the same guy he was before last year. Is it really so hard to imagine a player having an unusually good season and then regressing back to his mean? Not every player improves with age--I agree with Boob-No-More than Crabbe hasn't really added anything to his game over the years or improved any particular skill, especially if his improved shooting last year was just a one-season thing.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Wait.

So last year Crabbe was a complete stud or something?

He was certainly better. Good enough so Brooklyn thought it worth giving him a huge offer sheet.

I think his play this year year is closer to his average play

That in itself is unusual for a young player. Last year was his first year getting consistent minutes, and he excelled in them. To return to his play when he was getting spot minutes and was unsure of his role would be strange enough to need explaining.

than last year being a stepping stone to becoming a star or something. He doesn't have the skills. Anyone watching the games can see this. He can't create his own shot. End of story.

Why is that the be-all and end-all? Plenty of very useful players have negligible skills at creating their own shots. That's why it's 5-on-5 not 1-on-1.