Science and Religion questions

[magnifier661]

I didn't say we shouldn't ask the question, but at the same time we should be aware that as far as we know the best answer to 'why is there something instead of nothing' may be 'why not!'

Good point. I can relate to that response.

 

[TripTango]

I'm going to bump this since no one responded.

I saw it, and I think they are good, interesting questions. I didn't reply because I don't know the answers.

 

[magnifier661]

I understand that. My question is whether or not they are actually the "same god" without Jesus. There's no question they have the same historical and cultural roots, but that doesn't make them "the same".

For the first 100 or so years after Jesus death and resurrection; Christians still practiced Jewish law. Christians still believe that "God the father" is still the Jewish and Muslim God. The major difference is Christians now look to Christ as "God the son"; who is separate from God the father; but just as connected to us as God.

This would be like the difference between a communist atheist or Dawkins atheist.

 

[magnifier661]

I saw it, and I think they are good, interesting questions. I didn't reply because I don't know the answers.

Yeah I don't know why young earth Christians don't use this more often.

 

[TripTango]

For the first 100 or so years after Jesus death and resurrection; Christians still practiced Jewish law. Christians still believe that "God the father" is still the Jewish and Muslim God. The major difference is Christians now look to Christ as "God the son"; who is separate from God the father; but just as connected to us as God.

This would be like the difference between a communist atheist or Dawkins atheist.

I truly wish that more Christians and Muslims had such a liberal outlook.

 

[magnifier661]

I truly wish that more Christians and Muslims had such a liberal outlook.

I don't know man. Those very liberal communist atheists killed a shit ton of people because they didn't adopted their way of thinking.

 

[TripTango]

Yeah I don't know why young earth Christians don't use this more often.

You still can't wrap your head around the notion that "I don't know the answer to that question" does not equate to "everything you say must be true"...

Someday.

 

[TripTango]

I don't know man. Those very liberal communist atheists killed a shit ton of people because they didn't adopted their way of thinking.

My momma taught me that two wrongs don't make a right.

(And yes, I am we'll aware that 3 lefts do. )

 

[magnifier661]

You still can't wrap your head around the notion that "I don't know the answer to that question" does not equate to "everything you say must be true"...

Someday.

No I understand that. I'm just saying right now; it's a damn good argument that the universe isn't as old as some people think. Maybe it took more than just a few minutes. Maybe in a few minutes was all you needed; if you aren't bound by the natural laws of physics during the Big Bang.

 

[crowTrobot]

1.) the universe for a few minutes traveled faster than the speed of light.

according to inflationary theory, which hasn't been completely confirmed yet.

If that's the case and we measured the age if the universe by the distance of the farthest star; how can this be an accurate measurement?

the age of the universe is calculated based on the ratio of expansion rate vs. distance for many other galaxies, not distance to a furthest object.

2.). How much faster than the speed of light did the universe expand?

currently unknown

3.). How do we know we've seen the farthest regions of the universe?

we know we CAN'T see the farthest regions.

 

[magnifier661]

My momma taught me that two wrongs don't make a right.

(And yes, I am we'll aware that 3 lefts do. )

Yep! Yet many atheists I know, not saying you; use the abominations to morality by Christians as some argument of why the faith is wrong. Obviously they haven't observed the hundreds of millions that died for the sake of atheism.

 

[TripTango]

No I understand that. I'm just saying right now; it's a damn good argument that the universe isn't as old as some people think.

No, it's really not. It has absolutely no bearing on the fact that there are dozens of lines of evidence discounting young earth arguments.

 

[TripTango]

Yep! Yet many atheists I know, not saying you; use the abominations to morality by Christians as some argument of why the faith is wrong.

Dammit mags, can you please leave poor Hypothetical Joe Atheist alone? He's already dead!!!

 

[crowTrobot]

No I understand that. I'm just saying right now; it's a damn good argument that the universe isn't as old as some people think.

it's a damn good argument to sell YEC books to Christians who don't know the first thing about cosmology.

 

[magnifier661]

No, it's really not. It has absolutely no bearing on the fact that there are dozens of lines of evidence discounting young earth arguments.

Depends... If the moment "few minutes, maybe longer" physics as we know it did not apply; then the natural occurrences wouldn't apply as well. It could be that the entire planet and all it's "physical form" like water, earth, air, etc. happened quicker than we could even record with the equipment we have today.

 

[TripTango]

it's a damn good argument to sell YEC books to Christians who don't know the first thing about cosmology.

You know, if I just had a few less scruples...

 

[magnifier661]

Dammit mags, can you please leave poor Hypothetical Joe Atheist alone? He's already dead!!!

There are a few of them in here. He is alive and kicking!

 

[magnifier661]

it's a damn good argument to sell YEC books to Christians who don't know the first thing about cosmology.

Question; in a few minutes; maybe a couple hours; the natural law of physics did not apply; what could manifest?

 

[TripTango]

Depends... If the moment "few minutes, maybe longer" physics as we know it did not apply; then the natural occurrences wouldn't apply as well. It could be that the entire planet and all it's "physical form" like water, earth, air, etc. happened quicker than we could even record with the equipment we have today.

And we might all be little Sims in some alien's "SimUniverse" game. It's idle, baseless speculation.

 

[magnifier661]

And we might all be little Sims in some alien's "SimUniverse" game. It's idle, baseless speculation.

As speculative as singularity consisting without mass?

Speculative as the first self replicating molecule manifested without another self replicating molecule?

 

[TripTango]

There are a few of them in here. He is alive and kicking!

If he's here, address him directly. Stop using the lame "some atheists I know" nonsense. There are wackos in every camp.

 

[magnifier661]

If he's here, address him directly. Stop using the lame "some atheists I know" nonsense. There are wackos in every camp.

Already have

 

[TripTango]

As speculative as singularity consisting without mass?

Almost. Don't mix up the speculation with the science.

 

[magnifier661]

Almost. Don't mix up the speculation with the science.

Science? I thought it must be observed before you can claim it's science. Never seen an observation like that.

 

[TripTango]

Science? I thought it must be observed before you can claim it's science. Never seen an observation like that.

You misread what I wrote. Try again.

 

[Denny Crane]

[video=youtube;i1UC6HpxY28]

 

[magnifier661]

[video=youtube;i1UC6HpxY28]

That was really interesting! Thanks for the link!

This is something that confuses me though. As he used the balloon, wouldn't the center of that balloon be the center? I mean as you insert air (hypothetical created space), the expanding point is the same?

 

[magnifier661]

You misread what I wrote. Try again.

No I read it fine. I made a comment on speculation used in science. It is merely speculation right?

 

[crowTrobot]

Depends... If the moment "few minutes, maybe longer" physics as we know it did not apply; then the natural occurrences wouldn't apply as well. It could be that the entire planet and all it's "physical form" like water, earth, air, etc. happened quicker than we could even record with the equipment we have today.

you're drastically underestimating the scope of the evidence and the precision of scientific knowledge about this subject.

 

[TripTango]

No I read it fine. I made a comment on speculation used in science. It is merely speculation right?

The nature of the universe and the laws that governed it within the first fraction of a second after the big bang is almost entirely speculation. Can you find a legitimate scientist who has ever said otherwise?