Game Thread SEEDING GAME# 4: BLAZERS @ NUGGETS - AUGUST 6, 2020 - THURSDAY, 5:00, NBCSNW (1 Viewer)

[twobullz]

Charles and Kenny both said the Blazers would be a third seed in the west if we had been healthy all year.

 

[theprunetang]

Crabbe nearly got the max and he never played this well. We offered Chandler Parsons the max and he turned it down. 3 and D is the most scarce position in the NBA. Trent would probably be the best player on the Knicks right now and it only takes one team with cap room.

I wonder if Minnesota will see his Blazers uniform and instantly make an offer because that's all they know.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Last year the team was in the WCF. This season, some fans are satisfied (even excited) at stumbling into the 8th seed with a sub .500 record. Some of us see this as a huge step back and are not satisfied with the status quo.

I'd think these people are unsatisfied with much in life.

One out of 30 teams wins an NBA title... Having expectations is going to lead to chronic disappointment.

I'm happy if the Blazers kick ass.

Its crazy some fans forget we went 15 years without winning any playoff series, take those wins now for granted, and expect even more.

 

[B-Roy]

Crabbe nearly got the max and he never played this well. We offered Chandler Parsons the max and he turned it down. 3 and D is the most scarce position in the NBA. Trent would probably be the best player on the Knicks right now and it only takes one team with cap room.

Keep in mind he looks this well playing off Dame. If he didn't have that level of player with him he would probably look more like Tim Hardaway Jr.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Charles and Kenny both said the Blazers would be a third seed in the west if we had been healthy all year.

That is the kiss of death right there!

 

[B-Roy]

that was a wacky game. Blazers shoot a lot better from 3 than 2; Nuggets missing a bunch of players and partially resting others. Portland red hot ans Dame even hotter but they couldn't gain any separation from Denver. And one of the apparition fans in the stands was some bearded guy in a nun's habit....anybody else notice that?

Dame was as hot as he was in that 6-8 game stretch at the end of January.

about Zach: I just don't see what his biggest fans are seeing. Right now, his impact is awfully similar to that of Harkless. Portland can get away with that if they get big numbers from the other forward position, but they can't if both forwards are below average in impact. That was the main problem with the Aminu/Harkless pairing as starting forwards. Too much inconsistency and too few big games and way too many disappearing acts

They are getting production at the other forward right now though, his name is Gary Trent Jr.

Seems like Stotts is finishing games with Melo or Zach depending on whether we need offense or defense. Not that I think Zach is amazing or anything, but we've quite missed Harkless and Aminu this year, specifically on defense, so if that's all he provides at the moment I think that's fine. You hope he develops more since he's only 22 though.

 

[wizenheimer]

They are getting production at the other forward right now though, his name is Gary Trent Jr.

Seems like Stotts is finishing games with Melo or Zach depending on whether we need offense or defense. Not that I think Zach is amazing or anything, but we've quite missed Harkless and Aminu this year, specifically on defense, so if that's all he provides at the moment I think that's fine. You hope he develops more since he's only 22 though.

yeah...I looked at Harkless at 22-23 and compared to Zach. Harkless was better statistically at least, and that include impact stats. Zach just strikes me as being best suited as a bench player, maybe a 1st big off bench to replace either big. He occasionally makes a spectacular play, but his level is average at best. I look at other young combo PF/C's like Bam Abedayo, Jaren Jackson, Michael Porter, John Collins, Myles Turner and get jealous. Zach isn't at the level of a Dwight Powell or a Thomas Bryant or a Dario Saric

 

[SharpesTriumph]

yeah...I looked at Harkless at 22-23 and compared to Zach. Harkless was better statistically at least, and that include impact stats. Zach just strikes me as being best suited as a bench player, maybe a 1st big off bench to replace either big. He occasionally makes a spectacular play, but his level is average at best. I look at other young combo PF/C's like Bam Abedayo, Jaren Jackson, Michael Porter, John Collins, Myles Turner and get jealous. Zach isn't at the level of a Dwight Powell or a Thomas Bryant or a Dario Saric

His defense looks amazing at times, he can protect the rim as a center but also switch onto guards at the perimeter.

It also depends on matchup, against Antony Davis his D could be critical, now when we play Denver with Jeremy Grant maybe Melo is superior.

Offensively I don't think he'll ever be great, but if he can make smart passes, go to the right spot, and hit threes he could become an asset on that end. He has the tools to develope that. With his D that combo could make him a key player on a title team.

 

[twobullz]

The most amazing stat of the night 16- 20 vs 13-17 The Blazers won the FT Battle.

 

[blazerkor]

I would rather keep Lillard, CJ, Trent and continue to see where Collins goes and continue to play Nurk.
Seems to me Trent pretty much guards any wing out there.

You can't win a championship with a Dame/CJ starting back court, that's my opinion. Dame is getting to be a better defender but I think CJ is getting worse. Dame isn't good enough defensively to cover for CJ. Trent can only be one place at a time. We can win a championship with Dame as our best player but we need two guys on the perimeter with him that are good to excellent defenders and CJ doesn't bring that. Then there is offense, if CJ would take spot up jumpers when he was open that might make it easier for me to see him staying and winning a championship but the guy passes up wide open shots all of the time to do his thing... this hurts offensive continuity. What it comes down to is that CJ for as good of a guy as he seems to be can be a bit of a showboat and ball hog, I think we could put up with that if he were even a good defender but he is not. Don't get me wrong CJ is an amazing scorer, just phenomenal but we don't need that we need defense and a competent scorer/set shooter. I don't think you have to worry about it because I think Olshey might trade one of his legs before he traded CJ but I hope I'm wrong about that. I know there is a better fit for this team out there that we could get for CJ. I had been saying that before the Gary Trent Jr. revelation, now it's just obvious. I would say that we could try to get a SF to start and bring CJ off the bench but we're paying CJ around 31 mil a year so you can't exactly pay someone that much to be a sixth man.

 

[tykendo]

That is the kiss of death right there!

Not at all. They predicted the Blazers would get to the WCF last year. They did. Now granted, that was before Nurk's injury. But they said it, and it happened anyways.

 

[GDiama]

Remember when people said Hassan is better than Nurk? Good times. We are talking about entire different level, the whole team is so much better.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

You can't win a championship with a Dame/CJ starting back court, that's my opinion. Dame is getting to be a better defender but I think CJ is getting worse. Dame isn't good enough defensively to cover for CJ. Trent can only be one place at a time. We can win a championship with Dame as our best player but we need two guys on the perimeter with him that are good to excellent defenders and CJ doesn't bring that. Then there is offense, if CJ would take spot up jumpers when he was open that might make it easier for me to see him staying and winning a championship but the guy passes up wide open shots all of the time to do his thing... this hurts offensive continuity. What it comes down to is that CJ for as good of a guy as he seems to be can be a bit of a showboat and ball hog, I think we could put up with that if he were even a good defender but he is not. Don't get me wrong CJ is an amazing scorer, just phenomenal but we don't need that we need defense and a competent scorer/set shooter. I don't think you have to worry about it because I think Olshey might trade one of his legs before he traded CJ but I hope I'm wrong about that. I know there is a better fit for this team out there that we could get for CJ. I had been saying that before the Gary Trent Jr. revelation, now it's just obvious. I would say that we could try to get a SF to start and bring CJ off the bench but we're paying CJ around 31 mil a year so you can't exactly pay someone that much to be a sixth man.

If you can win a championship with a Jaren Jackson Sr/Avery Johnson backcourt (1999) you can win with a Dame/CJ backcourt. Having two awesome guards is never a problem. They’re very similar to Pistons who won two titles with Isaiah Thomas and Joe Dumars. You remind me of when people said you can’t win a title with Sheed. Sheed was never the problem. It was the team around him.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

Also- a big reason Dame and GTJ had big games tonight was because Denver still had nightmares about Game 7 and were doing all they could to stop CJ. We don’t win that Game 7 without CJ to take pressure off Dame. Trent is not as good as CJ. He’s getting open looks off of defenses focusing on Dame/CJ. Ask Trent to be the man and it’s a different story. We went through this argument with Crabbe. People were so convinced he’d average 18 ppg for the Nets.

 

[tykendo]

CJ will be called upon to be huge in coming games, and i believe he will deliver. I don't compare GT to Allan though. GT is wayyyyyyy better. I liked Crabbe, but he was no GT. GT has special written all over him.

 

[bobf]

that was a wacky game. Blazers shoot a lot better from 3 than 2; Nuggets missing a bunch of players and partially resting others. Portland red hot ans Dame even hotter but they couldn't gain any separation from Denver. And one of the apparition fans in the stands was some bearded guy in a nun's habit....anybody else notice that?

Dame was as hot as he was in that 6-8 game stretch at the end of January.

about Zach: I just don't see what his biggest fans are seeing. Right now, his impact is awfully similar to that of Harkless. Portland can get away with that if they get big numbers from the other forward position, but they can't if both forwards are below average in impact. That was the main problem with the Aminu/Harkless pairing as starting forwards. Too much inconsistency and too few big games and way too many disappearing acts

The only problem with the Aminu Harkless pairing was Blazer fans’ overemphasis on offense and underemphasis on defense. Aminu & Harkless did not disappear on defense. They also didn’t lose 2-3 possessions a game to stone hands. They didn’t have egos that needed to back a guy down for a 34% low IQ shot three times a game. With Dame, CJ, and Nurk they didn’t need to be world-beaters on offense. They just needed to knock down an occasional 3 or make a back door cut dunk once in a while. They were significantly better than Melo Collins.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Is Gary Trent a shooter in college or just a defensive stopper?

Shooter

 

[blazerkor]

If you can win a championship with a Jaren Jackson Sr/Avery Johnson backcourt (1999) you can win with a Dame/CJ backcourt. Having two awesome guards is never a problem. They’re very similar to Pistons who won two titles with Isaiah Thomas and Joe Dumars. You remind me of when people said you can’t win a title with Sheed. Sheed was never the problem. It was the team around him.

i
Comparing CJ to Dumars is so, so off. Joe Dumars defense was fantastic and he would always defer to Isiah and mostly just hit spot up threes, oh and get points in transition from turnovers he created. Mario Ellie started for the Spurs during their first championship run, Jaren Jackson Sr. did get a lot of run though, both of them were great defenders and the Spurs team is not comparable to our team because their two best players were Duncan and Robinson. So please don't throw out random shooting guards from championship teams that only further prove my point that CJ isn't a fit and then say they are examples of why he is. Early on I was in the keep CJ club and I would compare him to Joe Dumars and I would swear that CJ's defense would get way better and that eventually he would realize that he should take open jumpers more and try to run the offense less, I was wrong on all accounts. I don't think I'm wrong now but it is just my opinion.

 

[kjironman1]

Sorry, but while I saw some good things tonight, I didn't see anything to indicate this team would have been a top 3 seed without the injury issues.

Except that they just beat both the 4th and 3rd seed teams in the west? Are you gonna say those teams had injuries?

 

[perkinsfor3]

Except that they just beat both the 4th and 3rd seed teams in the west? Are you gonna say those teams had injuries?

While I liked how we played, the Nuggets were missing a lot of key players and didnt bring Jokic back into the game after sitting him with 3min left in the 3rd.

If we had been healthy all season I think we wouldve been in the same range where you now have the other 6 (minus Lakers) teams fighting for seeding. They're 4 to 5 games apart from each other, so saying we would have made the playoffs for sure is basically saying the same as us having had a chance at being tge #2 team in the West.

In a 7 series round, I still like out chances vs a healthy Denver squad, although theyve become better with MPjr and BolBol added. We 'added' Trent and have Melo now in a clear role.

 

[blazerkor]

Except that they just beat both the 4th and 3rd seed teams in the west? Are you gonna say those teams had injuries?

I totally think we would have been the third seed in the West if we would have been fully healthy. That being said, we would have been the 5th best team in the league and the gap between 4 and 5 would have been sizable. Until we address our perimeter D, we are going to be on the outside looking in as far as titles are concerned. We might make it to another conference final but we're not going to be the champions. I think we can get this team to where it needs to be with just a few moves, we're really not that far away.

 

[kjironman1]

I totally think we would have been the third seed in the West if we would have been fully healthy. That being said, we would have been the 5th best team in the league and the gap between 4 and 5 would have been sizable. Until we address our perimeter D, we are going to be on the outside looking in as far as titles are concerned. We might make it to another conference final but we're not going to be the champions. I think we can get this team to where it needs to be with just a few moves, we're really not that far away.

Way too much hand wringing about perimeter defense. Every team in the league runs pretty much the same options and deals with open perimeter shots. If a team spaces the floor well they will get open looks from three. Dame, CJ and Trent do a fine job getting to shooters. Great shooters make shots. Go read a opposing teams forum when Dame lights them up. They all talk about not being able to guard a three point shot. It's like its a talking point on daily talk shows so it's the sexy thing to say to make the person look smart. Que Hoops and Bones......

 

[kjironman1]

This game has and always will be about making buckets and playing aggressive defense. Energy breeds energy. Too many people way overthink the game.

 

[Shaboid]

Way too much hand wringing about perimeter defense. Every team in the league runs pretty much the same options and deals with open perimeter shots. If a team spaces the floor well they will get open looks from three. Dame, CJ and Trent do a fine job getting to shooters. Great shooters make shots. Go read a opposing teams forum when Dame lights them up. They all talk about not being able to guard a three point shot. It's like its a talking point on daily talk shows so it's the sexy thing to say to make the person look smart. Que Hoops and Bones......

Denver did play pretty shit perimeter D on Dame last night, not that it would have really mattered since Dame was on fire. I mostly agree with you though, NBA players are good shooters, news at 11.

 

[wizenheimer]

Offensively I don't think he'll ever be great, but if he can make smart passes, go to the right spot, and hit threes he could become an asset on that end. He has the tools to develope that. With his D that combo could make him a key player on a title team.

which is exactly what was said about Harkless for his first 2-3 years in Portland. "if-he-could-just-do-this-most-games" seemed like his middle name. Maybe Zach will step above the Harkless level he's in right now, but Zach will be 23 in three months. When Nurkic was 23 he was consistently posting double-doubles. Zach is a year older than Michael Porter Jr.; 2 years older than Jaren Jackson; and the same age as John Collins. So, the 'he's young' excuse is wearing thin

I think his defensive impact is being a little overrated as well. I'm seeing flashes of it, but no consistency. I think that's especially true when he switches onto perimeter players, mainly SF's. Zach is mobile, but he's going to get in trouble if he spends much time guarding guys like Lebron, Kawhi, PG13, and Doncic

 

[wizenheimer]

i
Comparing CJ to Dumars is so, so off. Joe Dumars defense was fantastic and he would always defer to Isiah and mostly just hit spot up threes, oh and get points in transition from turnovers he created. Mario Ellie started for the Spurs during their first championship run, Jaren Jackson Sr. did get a lot of run though, both of them were great defenders and the Spurs team is not comparable to our team because their two best players were Duncan and Robinson. So please don't throw out random shooting guards from championship teams that only further prove my point that CJ isn't a fit and then say they are examples of why he is. Early on I was in the keep CJ club and I would compare him to Joe Dumars and I would swear that CJ's defense would get way better and that eventually he would realize that he should take open jumpers more and try to run the offense less, I was wrong on all accounts. I don't think I'm wrong now but it is just my opinion.

I agree

comparing Dame/CJ to either the Detroit Duo or the Spurs duo is just nuts. There only real comparison is they were all short guards (although Dumars had a great wingspan).

unlike CJ, Dumars could actually resemble a PG. He could run an offense and was a much more willing passer; he didn't get hooplock like CJ does. More importantly, Dumars was a 6 time all-star, made 3 all-NBA teams, and was 1st team all-NBA defense 4 times and 2nd team once. He was elite on defense, and that was a great complement to Isiah Thomas (who was probably better than Dame defensively).

the Spurs duo comparison is even more loony. Those two Spurs guards only started 13 of the 50 regular season games, and none in the playoffs. The comparison goes down the crapper right there. Then there's the factor that the Spurs combo combined for a 35% usage rate, while Dame/CJ combine for 56% usage...of course, those Spurs guards were passing to Duncan, Robinson, and Elliot

and that's the big issue: Olshey has set the Blazers up so CJ is option 1b. CJ is only taking 0.7 fewer shots a game than Dame. That would be OK if CJ was elite in efficiency, but he's not. At best, he's barely average. And he's weak defensively as well as being undersized for a wing

and of course, CJ has the salary of option 1b. He has all-star salary but he has never sniffed an all-star game. And try to figure out how Portland could afford Nukic and Trent combining for 45-50M/year if Dame/CJ are combining for 80-85M. That's a real interesting puzzle. Something has to give

 

[CupWizier]

which is exactly what was said about Harkless for his first 2-3 years in Portland. "if-he-could-just-do-this-most-games" seemed like his middle name. Maybe Zach will step above the Harkless level he's in right now, but Zach will be 23 in three months. When Nurkic was 23 he was consistently posting double-doubles. Zach is a year older than Michael Porter Jr.; 2 years older than Jaren Jackson; and the same age as John Collins. So, the 'he's young' excuse is wearing thin

I think his defensive impact is being a little overrated as well. I'm seeing flashes of it, but no consistency. I think that's especially true when he switches onto perimeter players, mainly SF's. Zach is mobile, but he's going to get in trouble if he spends much time guarding guys like Lebron, Kawhi, PG13, and Doncic

Some players really can't be defined by stats and I think Collins is one of those type of players. He's fine as you have to understand he is only 7 games into this season.

 

[wizenheimer]

it sure seems like fate is setting up a Blazers/Lakers 1st round matchup

I'm already bracing for lopsided officiating. I'll go ballistic...or get drunk...if Kyle Kuzma and Alex Caruso are getting superstar whistles while Dame is getting mugged

 

[CupWizier]

We have plenty of bashing McCollum threads and this is a game thread. McCollum has to be one of the most under appreciated players to ever play for the Blazers.

 

[Shaboid]

it sure seems like fate is setting up a Blazers/Lakers 1st round matchup

I'm already bracing for lopsided officiating. I'll go ballistic...or get drunk...if Kyle Kuzma and Alex Caruso are getting superstar whistles while Dame is getting mugged

I would recommend stocking up on whiskey then.