OT Should females compete against biological males?

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Hoopguru said:

Russell Wilson wants your vote making Women’s Flag a national varsity sport
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Flag? why not tackle?
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Probably because women's tackle football would not generate enough revenue to support it. The roster and equipment requirements for tackle vs flag would be substantially different. It would also drain money from other men's and women's sports.

Flag football has greater potential to by picked up by more colleges than women's tackle football. More colleges with teams means better TV contracts and gives the sport a greater chance of succeeding.
 
Andy Kaufman was wrestling women before anyone had ever broached the issue! It's how he met his wife!
 
Hoopguru said:
Only if the guys are allowed to use steroids.
Should men be allowed to compete in women sports sucj as HS softball, basketball?
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No, because men have a competitive advantage. Since women have no suck advantage why not let them participate in men's sports if they such desire?
 
Lanny said:
No, because men have a competitive advantage. Since women have no suck advantage why not let them participate in men's sports if they such desire?
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Sure , Im ok with women wanting to compete against men in any sport.
 
Speaking of going both ways, this thread goes 3 ways:

1. Should females compete against biological males? (thread title)
..a. Should they decide to
..b. Should authority allow them to

2. If yes, how can leagues be sustainable? (thread title's long-term version)
..a. Let girls enter boys' leagues, but not v.v.
..b. For safety, allow it only for low-contact sports, not football or wrestling.
..c. My idea: Add a disadvantage for boys in girls' leagues, like a weighted backpack.

3. Are you repulsed by transsexual surgery? (should be a new thread)
..a. Yes. It's disgusting to verbalize, so the new thread will get few responses.
..b. Cutting off my balls and dick doesn't bother me any more than my big toe.

I didn't remember all the options appearing in the thread so far, so feel free to copy and paste the outline with additional lines.
 
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My view is women are women, trans or otherwise. There have been cases of non-trans women who had unusually (and naturally, due to an imbalance) high testosterone levels and were ruled ineligible, which I think is extremely unjust and such rules could disappear if we stop trying to legislate who "counts" as a woman and who doesn't based on body chemistry.

Now, having said that, I'm going to contradict myself a bit and say that, at least for high end sports, it might be a good idea to require that any trans women who are going to compete should have completed HRT. I believe there is or was a Canadian trans woman who switched from the men's pro hockey league to the women's (at a lower level than the NHL/NWHL, as I recall) and that occurred after she went through HRT. I'm not saying that I only consider trans women who have done HRT to be women, but it seems like a reasonable ask to have taken the step to adopt what you can of a woman's body chemistry if you're going to compete athletically with other women.
 
For "high school transsexuals," have they had surgery? If so, why is this legal for a minor to decide? Laws against voluntary statuary rape, and against minors signing contracts without an adult's co-signature, are justified by the assumption that minors are unable to make decisions. This particular decision is far more life-changing than the decision to buy a car, or have sex with an 18-year-old.

I'd guess that at least half of high schoolers having transsexual surgery will regret it sooner or later. Can't it wait till the age of 18? (Actually, I'm thinking 25 or 30, but our crappy legal system isn't structured for that age.)

What kind of parent encourages this for their immature teeny-bopper? I assume it requires a parent's signature, like a contract. What kind of a money-grubbing doctor would perform it?
 
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crandc said:
My position is that straight cis men do not have the right to dictate what transgender women, or transgender men, can and cannot do. .
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that not only sounds logical, it sounds moral

but I will admit that I just then had to google ''cis'' to know exactly what you're talking about.

Which tells me two things: I'm so far behind the current reality on this I should refrain from offering opinions. More importantly, my default position will always be everybody should have the right walk the path they choose

but while I'll be reserved in my opinions on gender, if I see an opportunity for bad jokes I'm full speed ahead
 
crandc said:
My position is that straight cis men do not have the right to dictate what transgender women, or transgender men, can and cannot do. Or to decide what is or us not "responsible" behavior for transgender people.

I am quite sure you would be outraged by the reverse.
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I have no opinion on this subject since it doesn't impact me in the least and I'm pretty much uninformed on the issue anyway. I would think that cis women would have the right to provide input on this issue though. Certainly there is a reasonable likelihood that cis women athletes would be put at a competitive disadvantage based upon biological advantages that biology affords genetic males. Or am I missing something regarding this issue? Please forgive any terminology errors in this post. I will readily admit that I am woefully uninformed about transgender issues.
 
Why don't you raise issue of trans male athletes?

It's a wedge. Hard to really hate a clean cut Ivy league educated married veteran like Pete Buttigieg. The specter of muscle bound "fake women" assaulting innocent young girls in restrooms, well, easy to whip up prejudice against this mythical threat.

Just like innocent white children would be assaulted by germ ridden Black children without segregation. Just like trembling US soldiers would be assaulted in showers by gay men and lesbians who apparently join the service solely to assault straights.

Forgive me if I just don't care to engage straight cis men who want to decide what my community is permitted.
 
crandc said:
Why don't you raise issue of trans male athletes?

It's a wedge. Hard to really hate a clean cut Ivy league educated married veteran like Pete Buttigieg. The specter of muscle bound "fake women" assaulting innocent young girls in restrooms, well, easy to whip up prejudice against this mythical threat.

Just like innocent white children would be assaulted by germ ridden Black children without segregation. Just like trembling US soldiers would be assaulted in showers by gay men and lesbians who apparently join the service solely to assault straights.

Forgive me if I just don't care to engage straight cis men who want to decide what my community is permitted.
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Just so we're clear, you're completely okay with a trans woman getting in the ring with a biological female and beating the shit out of her?
 
I'm sorry but what a bunch of fucking horse shit to tell people "your opinion doesn't matter on this topic because of your sexual preference and your gender."

I have a daughter. You bet your fucking ass I'm going to raise a concern if she wanted to take up a sport like wrestling or boxing and a trans woman wanted to fight her. And if someone wants to tell me that my opinion doesn't matter because I'm a straight white guy, they can kiss my ass. Gender politics will directly affect my family going forward.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Just so we're clear, you're completely okay with a trans woman getting in the ring with a biological female and beating the shit out of her?
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Has this even happened?

Is this really a problem that needs to be solved?

I've seen this example used a few times in this thread.

So... boxing...

Regulate glove weight and require head gear. Make sure refs are qualified and experienced.

Make sure this applies to all boxing matches no matter the sex of the participants.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I'm sorry but what a bunch of fucking horse shit to tell people "your opinion doesn't matter on this topic because of your sexual preference and your gender."

I have a daughter. You bet your fucking ass I'm going to raise a concern if she wanted to take up a sport like wrestling or boxing and a trans woman wanted to fight her. And if someone wants to tell me that my opinion doesn't matter because I'm a straight white guy, they can kiss my ass. Gender politics will directly affect my family going forward.
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So you want to legislate all transgender people instead of telling your daughter not to fight 1 person?
 
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SlyPokerDog said:
So you want to legislate all transgender people instead of telling your daughter not to fight 1 person?
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It is an issue that is going to continue to grow as we embrace trans rights. Why wouldn't we want to determine how this should be handled now?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5227946/

"We used data from national surveys to estimate the population size of transgender people in the United States. Estimates of the number of transgender adults significantly increased over the past decade, with a current best estimate of 390 per 100 000 adults. That is about 1 in every 250 adults, or almost 1 million Americans. These numbers may be more typical of younger adults than of the entire US population. We expect that future surveys will find higher numbers of transgender people and recommend that standardized questions be used, which will allow a more accurate population size estimate."
 
Outlaw boxing. If no one can fight, no one is discriminated against, or has an unfair advantage.

Problem solved.

barfo
 
You guys can white knight this all you want, but mostly this is about Cran telling us that we can't have any opinion whatsoever on the issue because we're straight men. I have a daughter. I'm going to have a fucking opinion.
 
Natebishop3 said:
You guys can white knight this all you want, but mostly this is about Cran telling us that we can't have any opinion whatsoever on the issue because we're straight men. I have a daughter. I'm going to have a fucking opinion.
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Cool, keep your daughter out of the ring, its a stupid and dangerous sport as it is. This isn't mostly about cran saying anything, it's mostly a bunch of dudes worrying about roided up trans women beating up poor fragile girls. Why's this the only example given? 2 sports out of like a hundred. Weight classes exist for a reason. A little extra testosterone at a similar weight class with similar training isn't going to be some life threatening issue you all are making it out to ve. I mean, they let Peter fucking McNeely fight Mike tyson.
 
Natebishop3 said:
It is an issue that is going to continue to grow as we embrace trans rights. Why wouldn't we want to determine how this should be handled now?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5227946/

"We used data from national surveys to estimate the population size of transgender people in the United States. Estimates of the number of transgender adults significantly increased over the past decade, with a current best estimate of 390 per 100 000 adults. That is about 1 in every 250 adults, or almost 1 million Americans. These numbers may be more typical of younger adults than of the entire US population. We expect that future surveys will find higher numbers of transgender people and recommend that standardized questions be used, which will allow a more accurate population size estimate."
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Girls participate against boys all the time in high school wrestling. They use this thing called weight to determine who should fight who. Does this eliminate injuries? No. Should we just outlaw that from happening? No. Are those injuries happening at a higher rate than same sex wrestling? Don't know.

You provided one example, but I'm pretty sure that was a professional match. Those people got paid.

What happens in professional sports is very different than high school.
 
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SlyPokerDog said:
Girls participate against boys all the time in high school wrestling.
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All this time I thought they were participating with me when we were wrestling in the back seat.

barfo
 
Natebishop3 said:
You guys can white knight this all you want, but mostly this is about Cran telling us that we can't have any opinion whatsoever on the issue because we're straight men. I have a daughter. I'm going to have a fucking opinion.
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No one is white knighting, you're acting like transpeople are going to be jumping out at your daughter wanting to fight her. And you're completely ignoring that there are simple rules that can be applied for the benefit of all athletes instead legislating only one group.

And trans issues still have that boogieman factor. They'll rape kids in bathrooms! States have actually passed legislation because of that fear.
 
barfo said:
All this time I thought they were participating with me when we were wrestling in the back seat.

barfo
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We need to legislate transpirates to make sure they don't go after the wrong booty.
 
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