Politics Tara Reade

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PtldPlatypus said:
You may not realize this, but Oregon is so solidly polarized that the electoral votes are essentially already pledged to the democratic nominee. There is no realistic level of "voter apathy" that will change that eventuality. Georgia might be a different story, I have no idea, but it is reality that my vote is immaterial to the presidential election.
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I'm quite aware of what he was saying...my point stands, if everybody felt their vote didn't count, what's the purpose of having an election?

If you also feel your vote is immaterial, does that mean you won't be voting?
 
Democratic leaning voters who stayed at home in 2016 is what put Trump over the top.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
You may not realize this, but Oregon is so solidly polarized that the electoral votes are essentially already pledged to the democratic nominee. There is no realistic level of "voter apathy" that will change that eventuality. Georgia might be a different story, I have no idea, but it is reality that my vote is immaterial to the presidential election.
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Exactly right. Hillary Clinton beat Trump in Oregon by an 11% margin. Romney lost by 12% in 2012 and McCain by 16% in 2008. If the Democrats run a candidate who is flawed enough to lose in Oregon due to voter apathy, they deserve four more years of Trump.
 
yankeesince59 said:
I'm quite aware of what he was saying...my point stands, if everybody felt their vote didn't count, what's the purpose of having an election?

If you also feel your vote is immaterial, does that mean you won't be voting?
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"If everybody felt..." is not realistic. I deal in realism.

And no, that doesn't mean I won't vote. It does however mean that mean that I have no qualms about voting minor party. Because my vote doesn't matter.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
"If everybody felt..." is not realistic. I deal in realism.

And no, that doesn't mean I won't vote. It does however mean that mean that I have no qualms about voting minor party. Because my vote doesn't matter.
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"If everybody felt..." doesn't have to be realistic, it was used to make a point.

If, as you say, your "vote doesn't matter", why bother voting?...why waste your time?...that make no sense.
 
yankeesince59 said:
Democratic leaning voters who stayed at home in 2016 is what put Trump over the top.
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I have many friends that are Dem's that voted for the libertarian and a couple for Trump because they couldn't stand who Trump was running against. They will vote for Joe this time around, I believe.
 
yankeesince59 said:
"If everybody felt..." doesn't have to be realistic, it was used to make a point.

If, as you say, your "vote doesn't matter", why bother voting?...why waste your time?...that make no sense.
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I vote because as you say, it's both a right and a privilege, and it is my responsibility to be part of the voting bloc. It is also my responsibility to model for my children that behavior, to demonstrate that responsibility for them.

None of that changes the fact that whether I vote for Trump, Hornberger, Blankenship, or @SlyPokerDog, Biden will unquestionably be receiving Oregon's 7 electoral votes in November. How you "feel" about that mindset is as irrelevant as my vote.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
I vote because as you say, it's both a right and a privilege, and it is my responsibility to be part of the voting bloc. It is also my responsibility to model for my children that behavior, to demonstrate that responsibility for them.
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Thank you.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
I vote because as you say, it's both a right and a privilege, and it is my responsibility to be part of the voting bloc. It is also my responsibility to model for my children that behavior, to demonstrate that responsibility for them.

None of that changes the fact that whether I vote for Trump, Hornberger, Blankenship, or @SlyPokerDog, Biden will unquestionably be receiving Oregon's 7 electoral votes in November. How you "feel" about that mindset is as irrelevant as my vote.
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yankeesince59 said:
That is true, but it doesn't change the general attitude I'm speaking to, regardless of the state.
Did you vote in 2016?...if so, I assume you voted for either Trump or Clinton?
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Man, for a guy who isn't a Democrat you sure seem concerned that I may not cast my vote for Biden. ;)

I didn't like either of the major party candidates in 2016 so I voted for Johnson. I knew he had zero chance of winning but, on balance, his views aligned more closely with mine than Clinton's or Trump's.

A candidate has to earn my vote through their qualities and platform. I won't vote for them just because they're the alternative to a bad incumbent. The way I look at it, if I go into a cafe and they have only a choice between a shit sandwich or a scrambled eggs and brains dish that's only slightly dirty, I'll choose to skip lunch or look for another place to eat.
 
Hoopguru said:
I have many friends that are Dem's that voted for the libertarian and a couple for Trump because they couldn't stand who Trump was running against. They will vote for Joe this time around, I believe.
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Yup, for many people both Clinton and Trump were too polarizing in 2016, and so they went a different route, which is fine...at least they took the time to vote.
 
Shoot maybe I am “pro abortion” then. Just watch the rallies at govt buildings with their assault rifles draped over their shoulders. That would have been a perfect time for mass abortions.
 
e_blazer said:
Man, for a guy who isn't a Democrat you sure seem concerned that I may not cast my vote for Biden. ;)

I didn't like either of the major party candidates in 2016 so I voted for Johnson. I knew he had zero chance of winning but, on balance, his views aligned more closely with mine than Clinton's or Trump's.

A candidate has to earn my vote through their qualities and platform. I won't vote for them just because they're the alternative to a bad incumbent. The way I look at it, if I go into a cafe and they have only a choice between a shit sandwich or a scrambled eggs and brains dish that's only slightly dirty, I'll choose to skip lunch or look for another place to eat.
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Well, there you go...at least you voted. I didn't vote for Trump or Clinton either.

Ant you're right, I don't align myself with either party but I cannot abide and concede another 4 years for Trump...and for him to be ousted in November it will take an organized and concerted effort by the majority of voters to show their displeasure in his first 4 years.

For me, job one is to remove Trump. As I've said, Biden was not my first choice but come November he will be. I won't support Trump by voting for a candidate that has no chance of winning or what's worse, not vote at all.
 
calvin natt said:
Shoot maybe I am “pro abortion” then. Just watch the rallies at govt buildings with their assault rifles draped over their shoulders. That would have been a perfect time for mass abortions.
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Be careful there, man...you'll be chastised again by those who say you're horrible person for wishing death on someone. :bgrin:
 
calvin natt said:
Shoot maybe I am “pro abortion” then. Just watch the rallies at govt buildings with their assault rifles draped over their shoulders. That would have been a perfect time for mass abortions.
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Are you saying a bunch of pregnant women should all show up at the capital and all have abortions there at once as a protest? The dudes with guns would leave quickly.
 
yankeesince59 said:
Well, there you go...at least you voted. I didn't vote for either Trump or Clinton either.

Ant you're right, I don't align myself with either party but I cannot abide and concede another 4 years for Trump...and for him to be ousted in November it will take an organized and concerted effort by the majority of voters to show their displeasure in his first 4 years.

For me, job one is to remove Trump. As I've said, Biden was not my first choice but come November he will be. I won't support Trump by voting for a candidate that has no chance of winning or what's worse, not vote at all.
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I understand that position and it's still possible that I'll end up going that way. This Reade accusation, and particularly the response of the other Democrats and the liberal media to it has given me pause. I've explained my concerns ad nauseum on that in other posts so I won't go into it again. I will say that I think that one of the things that you hope might be accomplished by deciding not to support a flawed candidate is that the Party might eventually learn to pick better candidates. I've got to say though, the Dems seem to be slow learners. Obama, while I didn't agree with many of his policy views, was at least a breath of fresh air in that he was passionate and articulate about them. Clinton and Biden are both examples of the Party falling back into its sloppy ways of selecting candidates based on it "being their turn" instead of them being an exciting candidate.
 
e_blazer said:
Man, for a guy who isn't a Democrat you sure seem concerned that I may not cast my vote for Biden. ;)

I didn't like either of the major party candidates in 2016 so I voted for Johnson. I knew he had zero chance of winning but, on balance, his views aligned more closely with mine than Clinton's or Trump's.

A candidate has to earn my vote through their qualities and platform. I won't vote for them just because they're the alternative to a bad incumbent. The way I look at it, if I go into a cafe and they have only a choice between a shit sandwich or a scrambled eggs and brains dish that's only slightly dirty, I'll choose to skip lunch or look for another place to eat.
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Did i read the other day that you would vote for Biden if he was investigated and nothing much was found, but wouldn't vote for Biden if he wasn't investigated?
 
CupWizier said:
Did i read the other day that you would vote for Biden if he was investigated and nothing much was found, but wouldn't vote for Biden if he wasn't investigated?
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Yeah, I did say that yesterday. I may not feel that way by Election Day, but right now I'm pretty pissed at what seems to me to be pretty blatant hypocrisy.
And, yes, I know you disagree.
 
e_blazer said:
Yeah, I did say that yesterday. I may not feel that way by Election Day, but right now I'm pretty pissed at what seems to me to be pretty blatant hypocrisy.
And, yes, I know you disagree.
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Irrelevant if I disagree but isn't it a bit hypocritical to not vote for someone because you assume they are guilty? Isn't it suppose to be innocent till proven guilty?
 
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e_blazer said:
I understand that position and it's still possible that I'll end up going that way. This Reade accusation, and particularly the response of the other Democrats and the liberal media to it has given me pause. I've explained my concerns ad nauseum on that in other posts so I won't go into it again. I will say that I think that one of the things that you hope might be accomplished by deciding not to support a flawed candidate is that the Party might eventually learn to pick better candidates. I've got to say though, the Dems seem to be slow learners. Obama, while I didn't agree with many of his policy views, was at least a breath of fresh air in that he was passionate and articulate about them. Clinton and Biden are both examples of the Party falling back into its sloppy ways of selecting candidates based on it "being their turn" instead of them being an exciting candidate.
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Fair enough.

...don't get me wrong, I wish they'd go ahead and at least act like they are trying to investigate this but I just don't see it going anywhere.

And they need to expedite it because this is something that needs to be settled well before November. Afterwards, the people who are leaning toward Biden need to solidify and be united...because Trump's people certainly will be.
 
yankeesince59 said:
I'm quite aware of what he was saying...my point stands, if everybody felt their vote didn't count, what's the purpose of having an election?

If you also feel your vote is immaterial, does that mean you won't be voting?
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This (former) Democrat voted for Gary Johnson in 2016 because both “major” candidates were terminally flawed. The results of the 2016 election proved that beyond a doubt.

Now as an Independent, this year I’m voting for the Libertarian candidate (whoever that might end up being) for the very same reasons as 2016. We have that “luxury” in Oregon because a Biden win is a foregone conclusion (unless of course he drops out). I want my vote to be part of a national “referendum” that says we’re sick and tired of the same two parties that have dragged us down a rat hole for the past 60 years. If enough people did the same thing, we might see some actual changes. It won’t happen this year but.........a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

And as far as votes being important.....in 2000 the Republican literally stole the election with help from an activist Supreme Court. In 2016, even though Clinton got over 3 million votes more than the current Moron In Chief, the Republicans gamed the system and won the election. So let’s please don’t overstate how much your...or my....vote matters.....
 
CupWizier said:
Irrelevant if I disagree but isn't a bit hypocritical to not vote for someone because you assume they are guilty? Isn't it suppose to be innocent till proven guilty?
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It's not at all hypocritical in my view. As I said, I believe my vote should be based upon a candidate's platform and personal qualities. Personal qualities are always going to be a subjective judgement. Reade's accusation, in my judgement, has enough meat to it that it deserves to be investigated more thoroughly than what is being done so far. A failure to investigate, particularly when the Party was all-in on investigating the accusations by Blasey-Ford, colors my opinion of Biden's trustworthiness.

Innocent until proven guilty is a standard in criminal cases. It certainly doesn't apply in politics. If I have correctly read your many posts on things Trump has been accused of over the years, you certainly don't accord him that standard in your opinion of him (an opinion, that I happen to share, by the way).
 
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