Politics The Joe Biden Thread (1 Viewer)

[jonnyboy]

You make some good (and very obvious) points but.......these are not new situations. They have been going on for years, regardless of who sits in the White House. When "Trump's economy" was supposedly booming, young people could not afford a home, couldn't afford food and rent, and were overdosing in the street. Democrats tried (and did to a certain extent) make health care a reality. The Republicans gutted it as much as they were allowed, and are trying to shit can it today. Things are demonstrably better under Biden even if they still suck in general. It's also demonstrable that things weren't a whole lot better in the mid '70's when I was coming of age and trying to find a place in the world. Instead of blaming the generations before us, we got on with the business of surviving.

Sorry, I try not to rag on the younger generations, but if the Boomers fucked up, it was handing out participation trophies so no one got their feelings hurt. Now these generations expect participation trophies just for waking up. There ARE, decent paying good jobs out there to be found. Unfortunately too many people think they can pick and choose indefinitely. Personally I would (and did) take a job no one else wanted. Having my own home and providing for my family were more important than a rainbows and unicorn job, pie in the sky "Dream" job. I stuck out a job I pretty much loathed for the last 20 years of it because it paid my bills and promised a halfway decent retirement. As @riverman is always saying, "Choices". And everyone's "metric" should be "Am I comfy?". And if the answer is "no", then they need to try something different. Today's younger generations whine more than the Boomers did at the same age. We faced so many of the same issues. We just weren't quite as quick to make excuses.

And one final word on the "Am I comfy thing"........As I have been told since I came of voting age, the primary metric in casting your vote for president is to ask yourself, "Am I better off today than I was 4 years ago?" The answer for me, @crandc and plenty more of us is a resounding and unequivocal HELL YES! I'll be 70 years old in another month and I spent a lifetime working hard. If you think you're going to shame me for caring about my comfort in my old age, you're just trying to shame me for living the American Dream (you know, the one the Right seems to think we left behind).

You make plenty of good points I agree with, and i make zero excuses for those who exhibit laziness or complacency.
I just feel the older generations don’t quite understand the gravity of the situation because they aren’t living it. It’s not in the same ballpark, or universe for that matter as when you were coming of age. My response to Riv outlines alot of it. When you look at the numbers it is really quite jaw dropping. Nobody is blaming the older generations for carving out a life for themselves, it’s what we all are trying to do. It’s just that blaming younger generations for not being able to accomplish what you did isn’t exactly a fair judgment when you see the numbers are so heavily weighed against them.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

Your anectdotes don’t represent the reality of the situation. I’m sure your children have worked hard and done well and good on them for that. Sounds like they deserve everything they have. They represent a very, very small percentage of young Americans though. If you are just going to argue that young people are lazy and can’t save money there is no discussion to be had here. Inflation of home prices compared to stagnant wages, the percentage of an income matched to home prices isn’t in the same universe as 30 years ago. Add 7% interest onto all this and there is just nothing you can say here to justify your position. These numbers do not lie and they are horrifying. Young people are now having to compete with hedge funds in the housing market. These asset firms will buy up houses that sit empty, loan against them to build rental properties to stick the people who used to be able to afford those houses in, and charge them exorbitant rent, more than what the mortgage on the house they can’t get a loan for would’ve been. Not calling you ignorant or wrong, but you should dig into the housing crisis some more, it really is alarming. I feel my generation will be the last generation of homeowners.

The interest on my first house in 1976 was 7%, which was about the average. In 1986 I "lucked" into a house loan interest of 9.5% (which was temporary drop in the rates). Eventually, mortgage rates reached almost 20%. Today's rates aren't "unreasonable" when you look back at history. Even with house prices proportionally lower, some of us still had to find other sources of income in addition to our "real" jobs, just to make the house payment and stock the fridge. It was fucking hard. I earned "comfy" if and when I can afford it. A whine free, pure statement of fact. I too am incensed by the way the housing market is being manipulated. So vote for people who might work to change that dynamic (Hint. It ain't gonna be the Right Wing). And least wages have gone up under Biden, regardless of how far they yet have to go.

 

[barfo]

Your anectdotes don’t represent the reality of the situation. I’m sure your children have worked hard and done well and good on them for that. Sounds like they deserve everything they have. They represent a very, very small percentage of young Americans though. If you are just going to argue that young people are lazy and can’t save money there is no discussion to be had here. Inflation of home prices compared to stagnant wages, the percentage of an income matched to home prices isn’t in the same universe as 30 years ago. Add 7% interest onto all this and there is just nothing you can say here to justify your position. These numbers do not lie and they are horrifying. Young people are now having to compete with hedge funds in the housing market. These asset firms will buy up houses that sit empty, loan against them to build rental properties to stick the people who used to be able to afford those houses in, and charge them exorbitant rent, more than what the mortgage on the house they can’t get a loan for would’ve been. Not calling you ignorant or wrong, but you should dig into the housing crisis some more, it really is alarming. I feel my generation will be the last generation of homeowners.

Right, things never ever change. The way it is today is the way it will be forever, right?

Those of us who can remember back that far (aka boomers) know that interest rates can go much higher - and much lower - than the current rates.

Housing prices go up more often than down, especially if inflation isn't taken into account, but they can also go down.

The housing market today is very tough, no doubt. But your thesis that it will always be so is just silly.

barfo

 

[Kano John]

The interest on my first house in 1976 was 7%, which was about the average. In 1986 I "lucked" into a house loan interest of 9.5% (which was temporary drop in the rates). Eventually, mortgage rates reached almost 20%. Today's rates aren't "unreasonable" when you look back at history. Even with house prices proportionally lower, some of us still had to find other sources of income in addition to our "real" jobs, just to make the house payment and stock the fridge. It was fucking hard. I earned "comfy" if and when I can afford it. A whine free, pure statement of fact. I too am incensed by the way the housing market is being manipulated. So vote for people who might work to change that dynamic (Hint. It ain't gonna be the Right Wing). And least wages have gone up under Biden, regardless of how far they yet have to go.

It kills me when people complain about inflation rates today - inflation in the late 70's was 3 times today's rate. Some of us capitalized by buying houses and flipping them a few years later for a nice profit. Then in the 80's Reagan increased interest rates dramatically to get inflation under control. No more flipping houses and my new truck had an interest rate of 21%. But we adapted, adjusted life styles and carried on. Things today are not perfect - they never will be perfect but they are much better than some years past for many people. And if you don't like the people in office get involved and find people you want or run for office yourself. Bitching and moaning about the current state of affairs never helped improve anything.

 

[jonnyboy]

Right, things never ever change. The way it is today is the way it will be forever, right?

Those of us who can remember back that far (aka boomers) know that interest rates can go much higher - and much lower - than the current rates.

Housing prices go up more often than down, especially if inflation isn't taken into account, but they can also go down.

The housing market today is very tough, no doubt. But your thesis that it will always be so is just silly.

barfo

I understand markets change and prices go up and down. That will always be the case i’m sure. The increasing presence of asset firms in the market is a whole new thing though. They are being allowed to run amok and historically speaking (in this country) that type of power and influence rarely ever gets relinquished. Until legislation is introduced to correct this, or a true free market is introduced, things will probably continue to go to shit.

 

[jonnyboy]

It kills me when people complain about inflation rates today - inflation in the late 70's was 3 times today's rate. Some of us capitalized by buying houses and flipping them a few years later for a nice profit. Then in the 80's Reagan increased interest rates dramatically to get inflation under control. No more flipping houses and my new truck had an interest rate of 21%. But we adapted, adjusted life styles and carried on. Things today are not perfect - they never will be perfect but they are much better than some years past for many people. And if you don't like the people in office get involved and find people you want or run for office yourself. Bitching and moaning about the current state of affairs never helped improve anything.

The interest on my first house in 1976 was 7%, which was about the average. In 1986 I "lucked" into a house loan interest of 9.5% (which was temporary drop in the rates). Eventually, mortgage rates reached almost 20%. Today's rates aren't "unreasonable" when you look back at history. Even with house prices proportionally lower, some of us still had to find other sources of income in addition to our "real" jobs, just to make the house payment and stock the fridge. It was fucking hard. I earned "comfy" if and when I can afford it. A whine free, pure statement of fact. I too am incensed by the way the housing market is being manipulated. So vote for people who might work to change that dynamic (Hint. It ain't gonna be the Right Wing). And least wages have gone up under Biden, regardless of how far they yet have to go.

Once again fellas, it’s the year 2024 right now and shit done changed. Your comparisons only drive my point home.
Median income in 1980 was 21k. Now it’s 57k. 1980 rent was 5.7% of income, now it’s 38.7% of income. 1980 median home price was 47,200, now it’s 416,100 A home was 2.25 years of salary. Now it’s 7.3 years of salary.

 

[riverman]

Once again fellas, it’s the year 2024 right now and shit done changed. Your comparisons only drive my point home.
Median income in 1980 was 21k. Now it’s 57k. 1980 rent was 5.7% of income, now it’s 38.7% of income. 1980 median home price was 47,200, now it’s 416,100 A home was 2.25 years of salary. Now it’s 7.3 years of salary.

21 K in 1980 is worth just under 80K today....I learned long ago not to budget today thinking in 1950s dollar values.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Nice. But not my point.

I was saying that you are also complicit by being part of this society. Like all of us, you are feeding the system with your tax dollars, your spending and any other contributions to the economy and the social system in general.

Withholding your vote doesn't change that. At all.

And as for moving, I already have a plan for doing that myself. Because if Trump wins, then I won't like it. I believe Trump will cause enough damage that the country will not recover for many years afterwards, and I don't wish to spend my few remaining years watching that.

I don't have any illusions that I can escape from politics and/or society in general. But I'll be in a place where people - at least for a short time - act slightly less stupidly than Americans - or if not that, at least act stupidly in a way that is more appealing to me.

So: if you like Trumpism so much, stay then. Hope it works out for you, but I'm skeptical that it will.

barfo

I'm definitely complicit to some degree, nobody said otherwise. The spectrum matters. It's not all the same, obviously. Let me know where you're going and I might see you there. I'm starting to consider options and plan accordingly to get out. This country is falling apart with or without Trump. Civil War is near with or without him. The conditions that make him relevant are because of both parties making people unsatisfied. The country is too corrupt and broken to fix itself. Too much money in the system for the system to change itself. Like Rome before.

Who said I want Trumpism? I literally shit on him every chance I get, but because I do the same with Biden, you think I'm with Trump. I'm not with Trump and I'm not with the corporate Democratic party either. The country has done a lot more for you than it has a person like me.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

I’ve never looked to govt to improve my life but I’m a white male. Trump isn’t the only problem although he’s a disaster as a leader. it’s the GOP wanting to destroy the peaceful transfer of power as well as the separation of church and state. Biden is a hawk and that’s something I disagree about but the alternative is beyond a disagreement, it’s a step towards martial law. I don’t want soldiers on the streets armed and shaking down civilians. The GOP has done literally nothing with their legislative majority than insult their constituents. passed no laws to help you and squashed immigration reform so Trump could weaponize it in his campaign

Improve? It's actively been making it worse. I would have settled for keeping it the same. It's more than just the billions to other countries while our infrastructure falls apart and housing costs rise, it's that they let the corporations gouge us for everything we've got until we have no choice but to fall off the cliff.

I totally understand that people of an older demographic have no idea what's actually happening, but it's happening for younger Americans.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Once again fellas, it’s the year 2024 right now and shit done changed. Your comparisons only drive my point home.
Median income in 1980 was 21k. Now it’s 57k. 1980 rent was 5.7% of income, now it’s 38.7% of income. 1980 median home price was 47,200, now it’s 416,100 A home was 2.25 years of salary. Now it’s 7.3 years of salary.

Too many numbers for them. Boomers making this about interest rates and inflation when it isn't.

 

[barfo]

Who said I want Trumpism? I literally shit on him every chance I get, but because I do the same with Biden, you think I'm with Trump. I'm not with Trump and I'm not with the corporate Democratic party either. The country has done a lot more for you than it has a person like me.

I actually didn't mean to suggest you were a Trump fan. I was still in the mindset of my prior paragraph, which was about the scenario where Trump wins. Thus my comment to you assumed he'd won, and that the decision was then about what to do about it.

I guess in your case, since you consider both candidates disasters, you unfortunately don't have much to look forward to politically. I can't see any possibility (well, maybe 0.00000001%) that anyone but a D or an R is going to be elected anytime soon as president, nor will the Congress change hands except back and forth between the two parties.

As for your comment that this country has done more for me than for you, I accept that as true, although I don't know your particular circumstances well enough to be 100.000000% sure.

barfo

 

[beast blazer]

I understand where you're coming from and I'm not even arguing against it. I think your mistake is making this Trump v Biden, when in reality this is a party problem. You talk about losing civil rights, but you fail to mention much of the Democratic party is pretty complicit. They told voters their priorities were The Voting Rights Act and the George Floyd Act... and instead Pelosi showed up in Kente cloth. It's all performative and both parties serve their masters... the corporations and the donor class. Even if their public position is one thing, behind the scenes they're right there with their Republican coworkers. When Biden was running, he went to Wall Street and told them nothing would fundamentally change.

Both parties will go wherever their donors will go, even if that means selling out your civil rights. It's already happened in fact. You can't get a public sector job unless you sign away the right to criticize Israel. That's happening in Democratic states and that's eliminating your civil rights. That's just one of many examples.

If we don't draw the line at genocide, when will we? How long are we going to do the "lesser of two evils" dance while we continue to get fucked?

That dance is precisely why both parties don't give a shit about improving your life.

It's probably an intentional divide/conquer strategy. I know humans are good at dividing and fighting on their own, but crafty leaders have long known there are ways you can push that. You can actually chart the increase in these issues being mentioned in the media.

In a nutshell, I suspect it boils down to this: the dollar will collapse, we won't be able to rely on exploited Asian labor, and the elite are afraid of a revolution. To avoid that, they divide the population and try to get it hating each other. The talk of the "Great Reset" is what they will try to implement from the ashes of our current society. It's going to be a Chinese-style society. The massive influx of migrants are to water-down the population with people who are used to working for low wages under authoritarian regimes.

 

[beast blazer]

Three of my children own homes. None grew up rich. My oldest son bought his first house in Arizona two weeks ago. He worked at the DMV and saved his money. His mortgage is 900 a month so you can weigh that against your claims that young people can’t buy a house today. Yes they can but you have to be willing to save money first. That’s a discipline all its own. My youngest son has paid off his house in Eugene and he’s only 33 years old. I think you are probably surrounded with young friends who haven’t figured out how to own a home yet and yes. It’s expensive to live in the most desirable areas. Choices. My oldest son found his house for 125 K.

900 per month? Did he buy a wattle an daub house?

 

[jonnyboy]

900 per month? Did he buy a wattle an daub house?

I was also wondering in what part of sub-saharan Africa i could score a deal like this.

 

[beast blazer]

I want to see one of you tell me that Joe Biden does not have dementia

 

[RR7]

I want to see one of you tell me that Joe Biden does not have dementia

I also like to make medical diagnosis off of 31 second cropped videos with no sound. 100% proof!!

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[barfo]

Yeah, it looks like he was watching the "wrong" skydiver, and then someone had to grab him to pose for a picture.

Definitely dementia. Next thing you know he'll be ranting about sharks and electric boats.

barfo

 

[beast blazer]

Another of Joe's flaws, which are relatively minor compared to his flat out stupidity and corruption, is that he likes to plagiarize. I bet you lefties are going to try and argue that Robert Kennedy actually copied Joe.

 

[barfo]

Another of Joe's flaws, which are relatively minor compared to his flat out stupidity and corruption, is that he likes to plagiarize. I bet you lefties are going to try and argue that Robert Kennedy actually copied Joe.

Joe's looking pretty spry there! Guess he got over that case of dementia. Must have taken some of that thar horse medicine.

barfo

 

[beast blazer]

Where is the wide shot that explains what he was looking at? He looked like he was shaking hands with someone who wasn't there, something he has done several times. And why does his wife pull him back?

 

[Chris Craig]

Where is the wide shot that explains what he was looking at? He looked like he was shaking hands with someone who wasn't there, something he has done several times. And why does his wife pull him back?

Not his wife.

 

[barfo]

Keep them coming! Don't worry about whether they are fake or taken out of context, that doesn't matter.
And remember, just like videos of your cute pet or baby, there's no such thing as too many!

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

I want to see one of you tell me that Joe Biden does not have dementia

Dementia? Who am I to say?

I'll say this. Biden with dementia is a hell of a lot better than Trump. He's got my vote.

 

[Road Ratt]

I have seen videos on Trump's mental decline into possible dementia as well. This is why we shouldn't vote for old Jurassic boomers who have one foot in the grave already.

I say, Fuck both these useless old corrupt fucks. I wouldn't vote for either of them. I don't vote for corruption...

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

Where is the wide shot that explains what he was looking at? He looked like he was shaking hands with someone who wasn't there, something he has done several times. And why does his wife pull him back?

Jack Haley called. He'd like his tin hat returned........

 

[crandc]

San Francisco Chronicle ran a story on presidents Biden and Zelensky signing security pact. One column, no photo. Same page ran three column story on Trump stroke fest with photo of smirking Trump surrounded by adoring sycophants. Your liberal media.

 

[jonnyboy]

Dementia? Who am I to say?

I'll say this. Biden with dementia is a hell of a lot better than Trump. He's got my vote.

I actually respect this opinion because it’s honest. Why are so many unwilling to simply say this? Just be honest and say you don’t care. I don’t care that Trump is a white collar felon based on loose technicalities and would vote for him over Biden. See? Easy.

 

[Chris Craig]

I'd rather have Biden with dementia than a fascist dictator who wants to take everyone's rights away.

Not that there is any real evidence Biden has dementia. He's just old. Too old to be or be elected president. So, is Trump.

Either way, the oldest president ever will be elected.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I actually respect this opinion because it’s honest. Why are so many unwilling to simply say this? Just be honest and say you don’t care. I don’t care that Trump is a white collar felon based on loose technicalities and would vote for him over Biden. See? Easy.

Exactly. Some people support wannabe authoritarians and some people would do almost anything to prevent a person like that from being president.

Pretty simple.