Trade DEADline fallout: The Aftermath

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What Grade would you give the Trade Deadline moves?

  • A (I'm Joe Cronin's valet)

    Votes: 2 2.9%
  • B (I love 2nd round Draft picks)

    Votes: 18 25.7%
  • C

    Votes: 24 34.3%
  • D

    Votes: 14 20.0%
  • What the 'F'

    Votes: 12 17.1%

  • Total voters
    70
Just kicking the can down the road.

isn’t it obvious this summer we’re going to get that huge superstar that we’ve been longing for with all draft capital we received.
 
The roster before and after the trades? About the same? The draft capital is for the summer. This year has been about PROCESS. That’s what Cronin has consistently said. Okay.

Kicking the can down the road.

What happens when we strike out this summer? And Grant walks.
 
Didn't see this anywhere else so...

ESPN+ 2023 NBA trade deadline: Grades for every deal

Warriors send Wiseman to Detroit in four-team deal
Warriors get: Guard/forward Gary Payton II

Pistons get: Center James Wiseman

Hawks get: Forward Saddiq Bey

Trail Blazers get: Forward Kevin Knox
Five second-round picks

Golden State Warriors: B
Detroit Pistons: C-
Atlanta Hawks: A

Portland Trail Blazers: C+

With this deal, the Blazers essentially take a mulligan on signing Payton using their non-taxpayer midlevel exception last summer, getting a handful of second-round picks for their troubles.

Earlier Thursday, I wrote about newly added Matisse Thybulle as a replacement for starting small forward Josh Hart, dealt Wednesday night to the New York Knicks. With this trade it becomes clear Thybulle is really a replacement for Payton, who brings similar defensive playmaking with limited outside shooting.

Much as I appreciate Payton's game, that swap is probably good for Portland. Thybulle is more than four years younger and likely to be cheaper to re-sign this summer as a restricted free agent.

Again, however, the question is whether the Blazers should simply have cut out the Hawks and gotten Bey in return for Payton. Bey's modest 2023-24 salary would be ideal for a Portland team that may not be willing to pay the luxury tax, while he would have offered more size on the perimeter -- addressing a major Blazers weakness.

For now, Portland moves forward with Thybulle and Nassir Little at small forward and Justise Winslow likely to play a key bench role when he returns from a grade II ankle sprain that has sidelined him since late December -- just before Payton made his Blazers debut. Re-signing Winslow could become more of a priority because, like Payton, he offers Portland's second unit needed playmaking.


Thybulle to Blazers in 3-team deal
Trail Blazers get:
Forward Matisse Thybulle

76ers get:
Forward Jalen McDaniels
2024 second-round pick (via New York)
2029 second-round pick (via Portland)

Hornets get:
Guard Svi Mykhailiuk
2023 second-round pick (via most favorable of Atlanta, Brooklyn and Charlotte)
2027 second-round pick (via most favorable of New Orleans and Portland)

Philadelphia 76ers: A-
Charlotte Hornets: C+
Portland Trail Blazers: A

Consider this part two of the Blazers' deadline plan, which started Wednesday night by dealing Josh Hart to the New York Knicks for a protected first-round pick. That move created enough room under the tax line, as well as a trade exception, for Portland to take on Thybulle's contract.

As players, Hart and Thybulle are probably more similar than their reputations would suggest, particularly with Hart's reluctance to shoot 3s this season. (He has attempted fewer per 36 minutes and has made them at a worse clip than Thybulle so far.) Thybulle is almost precisely two years younger and is likely to have a weaker market as a restricted free agent this summer than Hart will unrestricted.

Add in the Blazers converting a couple of distant second-round picks into what could be a first-rounder in the late teens this season and this looks like a strong piece of business for the Portland front office.

There are still questions about how Thybulle fits offensively, but given that the Blazers entered the trade deadline 26th in defensive rating, adding Thybulle should help.


Blazers send Josh Hart to the Knicks

Knicks get: Guard/forward Josh Hart

Trail Blazers get:
Guards Ryan Arcidiacono
Svi Mykhailiuk
Guard/forward Cam Reddish
2023 first-round pick (via New York, top-14 protected, converts to four second-round picks)

New York Knicks: B-
Portland Trail Blazers: B+

Part of the Blazers' unspoken task this season was to play well enough to persuade ownership to pay the luxury tax to re-sign Hart, assuming he declined his player option, and fellow starting forward Jerami Grant.

With Grant averaging 21 PPG and making a career-high 41% of his 3-pointers, Portland has to prepare to give him a significant raise over this season's $21 million salary, meaning a new deal for Hart would likely take them into the tax.

As the Blazers hover around .500 and currently sit outside the play-in spots in the Western Conference, they couldn't justify paying the tax, making a Hart trade all but inevitable before the deadline. Likely getting a first-round pick is a good outcome, particularly because Portland will also get a free look at Reddish the rest of the season.

Remember, it was less than 13 months ago that the Knicks gave up a first-round pick to get Reddish, then in the third season of his four-year rookie contract. Thibodeau apparently wasn't part of that decision. Reddish has logged just 653 minutes since then, causing his trade value to crater.

Despite the occasional big effort, including a 26-point outburst in November against Oklahoma City, Reddish's game has always looked better on a scouting report than on the court. He could be a shooter but has hit just 32% of his 3s. He has the physical tools, including more size than Hart at 6-8, to be a strong defender. That skill set hasn't translated consistently either, though.

Those issues noted, Reddish is actually younger than a player drafted last June (Atlanta Hawks wing Tyrese Martin), so there's still time for him to put it all together. With minutes available and a need for more size on the perimeter, the Blazers will surely give him the opportunity he never found in New York.

Because the Knicks had to include two minimum-salary players (Ryan Arcidiacono and Svi Mykhailiuk) to match salary, Portland will have to either waive or trade a player under full NBA contract to complete this deal. There's no obvious candidate, so a deal might be the best solution.

Well done @noknobs . My grade of the trade deadline results is a little different than each trade individually.

Hart/Reddish - I thought the return was quite good for a player the Blazers had to trade. To get a still potential guy with a protected 1st....good job.

Thybulle - not bad especially if GP2 was going out. A one trick pony, but it is a good trick. To just give up a scrub player you just acquired and one 2nd round pick.....again, not bad.

Payton/Knox - it wasn't working out and I had heard he was on his way out sooner or later. I think it was @Fairly-Hard that I PM'd about a conversation he had with a contact of my. To get all the 2nd round picks to refill the empty chest was a good thing.

What bothered me about it was there was a LOT of very needed size inexpensively available and the Blazers did nothing to help their current roster. Bamba, Bryant, Plumlee, Wiseman.....everyone of those would have helped the Blazers just because they are so depleted. It was available, and they didn't make the move.

So now it's 'punt' (AGAIN) until the Summer and this version is just an exercise in mediocrity and futility. That is the part that bothered me. What they got for what they gave up.....not bad at all.
 
if there had been an option for C+ I would have voted for that

Blazers got Thybulle, Reddish, Knox a 1st, and 5 seconds for Hart+Payton. I imagine I'm missing something since I was gone most of the day

I have seen complaints about not getting McDaniels or Bey, but from what I've seen there is really not a big gap between those two and what Portland got. Below average role players all around
 
Well done @noknobs . My grade of the trade deadline results is a little different than each trade individually.

Hart/Reddish - I thought the return was quite good for a player the Blazers had to trade. To get a still potential guy with a protected 1st....good job.

Thybulle - not bad especially if GP2 was going out. A one trick pony, but it is a good trick. To just give up a scrub player you just acquired and one 2nd round pick.....again, not bad.

Payton/Knox - it wasn't working out and I had heard he was on his way out sooner or later. I think it was @Fairly-Hard that I PM'd about a conversation he had with a contact of my. To get all the 2nd round picks to refill the empty chest was a good thing.

What bothered me about it was there was a LOT of very needed size inexpensively available and the Blazers did nothing to help their current roster. Bamba, Bryant, Plumlee, Wiseman.....everyone of those would have helped the Blazers just because they are so depleted. It was available, and they didn't make the move.

So now it's 'punt' (AGAIN) until the Summer and this version is just an exercise in mediocrity and futility. That is the part that bothered me. What they got for what they gave up.....not bad at all.
They're going to the buyout market. Remember Cronin worked under Olshey. He isn't gonna pass up the bargain basement.
 
Kicking the can down the road.

What happens when we strike out this summer? And Grant walks.

Kicking it down the road is what small market teams do. They don't get big stars in FA or in trades. They get involved take the scraps. They hope something works and kick it down the road. Then they draft or trade for other players looking for diamonds in the rough and hope they pan out. The long term goal, is that hopefully enough of these players pan out and fit together and give you a playoff team/contender. The Blazers aren't the Shark, they are the remoras.

Stars like KD aren't asking for trades to Portland, nor do they come in FA. They wan't Dame to come play for them. The system in this league is lopsided and biased towards large market teams. Shit needs to be fixed.
 
cam reddish is intriguing, for whatever reason it didnt worked out for him yet, but hes still 23 yo, so theres a lot of time to improve and maybe chauncey & dame can help him reach his potential

ive read some comments and apparently he needs the ball in his hands to blossom, he doesnt do well playing off the ball

ive watched some clips (yeah i know, they only show good stuff) and guy can play bball (athletic, likes to attack the basket, good at finishing through the contact)
 
I actually am not really shocked at all and i think the moves made today are actually pretty good.
No I didn't want to lose hart but i totally understand it.
In making moves to keep from losing that player for nothing the team is better today than yesterday. They still are not contenders but they are better. Payton was not giving this team anything much.
What Hart was giving on offense will be brought by Reddish. Yes Hart rebounds better. I like the Pick if it conveys.
The Blazers needed length and they also need a space for Sharpe to excel.

I was not really ever sure what everyone was seeing in Payton. Quick small guy that did get his hands on the ball but never seemed to make a huge impact. I think it was a good move to get out from under his contract and get some picks.
 
Well done @noknobs . My grade of the trade deadline results is a little different than each trade individually.

Hart/Reddish - I thought the return was quite good for a player the Blazers had to trade. To get a still potential guy with a protected 1st....good job.

Thybulle - not bad especially if GP2 was going out. A one trick pony, but it is a good trick. To just give up a scrub player you just acquired and one 2nd round pick.....again, not bad.

Payton/Knox - it wasn't working out and I had heard he was on his way out sooner or later. I think it was @Fairly-Hard that I PM'd about a conversation he had with a contact of my. To get all the 2nd round picks to refill the empty chest was a good thing.

What bothered me about it was there was a LOT of very needed size inexpensively available and the Blazers did nothing to help their current roster. Bamba, Bryant, Plumlee, Wiseman.....everyone of those would have helped the Blazers just because they are so depleted. It was available, and they didn't make the move.

So now it's 'punt' (AGAIN) until the Summer and this version is just an exercise in mediocrity and futility. That is the part that bothered me. What they got for what they gave up.....not bad at all.

Just curious, but if the Blazers pick up an experienced big from the pool of veteran free agents (off the top of my head, Cousins, Aldridge, Leonard, Whiteside, Ed Davis) as a 3rd string C, would that impact your opinion?
 
They're going to the buyout market. Remember Cronin worked under Olshey. He isn't gonna pass up the bargain basement.

There should be some bigs available. Dedmon has already been waived and I've heard Noel may be bought out.

Just curious, but if the Blazers pick up an experienced big from the pool of veteran free agents (off the top of my head, Cousins, Aldridge, Leonard, Whiteside, Ed Davis) as a 3rd string C, would that impact your opinion?

I want no part of any of those except oddly, Leonard. He is still fairly young, athletic, and can shoot the '3'. They have created some cap room, so that wouldn't be an issue.
 
Our team? The team we root for got a little worse in a season they had zero chance of winning a championship in BUT acquired a few more assets for the future.

Instead of whining, maybe gain some perspective?

STOMP
Not sure they are worse. Certainly not much better but not sure about worse.
 
Kicking it down the road is what small market teams do. They don't get big stars in FA or in trades. They get involved take the scraps. They hope something works and kick it down the road. Then they draft or trade for other players looking for diamonds in the rough and hope they pan out. The long term goal, is that hopefully enough of these players pan out and fit together and give you a playoff team/contender. The Blazers aren't the Shark, they are the remoras.

Stars like KD aren't asking for trades to Portland, nor do they come in FA. They wan't Dame to come play for them. The system in this league is lopsided and biased towards large market teams. Shit needs to be fixed.
Is it fixed? How many titles have the Nets, Knicks, Bulls and Clippers won since the turn of the century? Zero.
The San Antonio Spurs have won 4 championships, the Milwaukee Bucks have won a championship, the Cleveland Cavaliers have won a championship and I'm going to count Toronto as an undesirable market, they won a championship.
That's 7 championships.
If there was a fix for big markets, it isn't working.
 
Is it fixed? How many titles have the Nets, Knicks, Bulls and Clippers won since the turn of the century? Zero.
The San Antonio Spurs have won 4 championships, the Milwaukee Bucks have won a championship, the Cleveland Cavaliers have won a championship and I'm going to count Toronto as an undesirable market, they won a championship.
That's 7 championships.
If there was a fix for big markets, it isn't working.

And how many championships have there been? 75. How many have been won by big markets? The Majority by a long shot.
 
Not sure they are worse. Certainly not much better but not sure about worse.
Hart was a good player, so was GPII. I think Thybulle is a better fit with this roster on D as he's a bit bigger/longer which they need with two smaller guards going 35 MPG each, but he doesn't offer much on O. I don't expect much from Reddish but hopefully I'm dead wrong. My guess is a slight decline in the this year's potential. But as someone who is much more focused on being a contender... why focus primarily on the present when you've got no chance there?

STOMP
 
It sure looks like nothing changed much, but Cronin did net us some draft capital, not much, but the team needs it. Previous GM threw so many pics away for trash and role players, you can’t do that. As we have seen those assets are needed in order to trade for a true gamer. We still don’t have enough but moving towards that should be the goal, then go all in.
 
I don't grade Joe on this deadline. He is obviously putting his eggs in the basket of draft night and I will judge him then. I honestly don't think he cares whether we win or lose for the rest of this season. It's the only reason why he wouldn't address the big man mess.

So he gets an incomplete from me but you don't get credit for incompletes so it's an F until he goes back and finishes the job.

I agreed with all but the F grade. Incomplete technically isn't an F, so I just agree that's it's incomplete. This was a tiered plan that was unfolding for sure
 
It sure looks like nothing changed much, but Cronin did net us some draft capital, not much, but the team needs it. Previous GM threw so many pics away for trash and role players, you can’t do that. As we have seen those assets are needed in order to trade for a true gamer. We still don’t have enough but moving towards that should be the goal, then go all in.

Solid expectations.
 
Is it fixed? How many titles have the Nets, Knicks, Bulls and Clippers won since the turn of the century? Zero.
The San Antonio Spurs have won 4 championships, the Milwaukee Bucks have won a championship, the Cleveland Cavaliers have won a championship and I'm going to count Toronto as an undesirable market, they won a championship.
That's 7 championships.
If there was a fix for big markets, it isn't working.
lol.
You have to be a big market OR have a top 5 player at his position in the entire history of the NBA...
 
I stopped watching because this is the first time in memory that I was happy with the roster, but we were losing anyway.

Hart and GP were not the reason we're playing what I consider way below our potential. The moves were a B, but so low impact talent-wise that it doesn't matter.
 
I agreed with all but the F grade. Incomplete technically isn't an F, so I just agree that's it's incomplete. This was a tiered plan that was unfolding for sure
I was just saying that if you don't go back and finish what has been labeled incomplete that it's a failure. So I didn't vote in the survey. It's incomplete and he will do something with what he has gathered so it will have a grade down the road. Basically I shouldn't have mentioned the F because it's impossible for him not to act in the off season.
 
I was just saying that if you don't go back and finish what has been labeled incomplete that it's a failure. So I didn't vote in the survey. It's incomplete and he will do something with what he has gathered so it will have a grade down the road. Basically I shouldn't have mentioned the F because it's impossible for him not to act in the off season.

Ah I could have misread it too. That is well within my faults lol
 
The apparent inability/motivation/desire to move on from Nurk and Ant is what I find most troubling and that's why I graded it a 'D'. I don't see either, especially Nurk, as starters on a team with championship aspirations. Bad attitude, work ethic, health, and then we get to his game...

How likely is it that Joe, in one fell swoop, nets 2 all-star potential players? I say pretty unlikely. Because what I am hearing is that he is planning on doing it. So when is he going to pull off these miraculous deals? This summer? 2024 deadline? Summer 2024? 2025 deadline? How much gas is left in Dame's tank? Was he planning last summer because, if so, giving Nurk and Ant those deals was asinine.

Two possibilities: Joe has it all figured out and will blow minds or he is in way over his head. What does the data say? Are his deals brilliant and raising the eyebrows of the Rileys and Ainges of the league?
 
And how many championships have there been? 75. How many have been won by big markets? The Majority by a long shot.
And they're the same teams, not "big market" teams in general. That's how the NBA works.
It is much better to be a small market team that strikes it rich in the draft than a "big market" team that drafts poorly.
 
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deal big time? our one somewhat substantial contract that is moveable outside of Ant/Dame is Nurk, and he only makes 16 mil. Not getting my hopes up.
 

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