Politics Ukraine / Russia (1 Viewer)

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beast blazer said:
Yes, that was post liberation,the people voted massively in favor of joining Russia. The national elections are a separate issue, in 2004 and 2010, you can see the highly polarized election results, with Crimea, and the Eastern regions voting for the ousted Yanukovych.
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What were they voting on? Join Russia now or revert to the 1992 constitution (prior to the Budapest memorandum). There was no option to maintain the status quo.
 
Phatguysrule said:
It's only 200 to 400 ft deep... I don't necessarily think that has to be a state level operation... Any billionaire could have easily funded that kind of thing.

Who would stand to gain from taking that pipeline out? Could be any number of people. Could be any number of nations.

For just one example... Wouldn't that make Iran's oil more valuable?
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There are only a small handful of people in the entire world able to dive at those depths, let alone perform special ops missions attaching bombs to pipelines in the pitch black bottom of a murky ocean. You could fit all the people qualified to do that into a perp lineup at the Mayberry police station lol.
As to who benefits from this, the answer is definitely not Russia. Their potential gas exports are crippled by it.
So taking that into account, i will use the very logic of you and others who support this failed debacle—whatever hurts Russia is good for Ukraine and the US.

Good for oligarchs anyway.
 
jonnyboy said:
There are only a small handful of people in the world able to dive at those depths, let alone perform special ops missions attaching bombs to pipelines in the pitch black bottom of a murky ocean.
As to who benefits from this, the answer is definitely not Russia. Their potential gas exports are crippled by it.
So taking that into account, i will use the very logic of you and others who support this failed debacle—whatever hurts Russia is good for Ukraine and the US.

Good for oligarchs anyway.
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Yeah, I'm not claiming that Russia did it, at all. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Ukraine did. I think it's 50/50 that the US had a hand in it.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Yeah, I'm not claiming that Russia did it, at all. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Ukraine did. I think it's 50/50 that the US had a hand in it.
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I think thats a pretty fair assessment. I have a little less faith in the US government than that though. But thats not surprising to anyone.
 
jonnyboy said:
There are only a small handful of people in the world able to dive at those depths, let alone perform special ops missions attaching bombs to pipelines in the pitch black bottom of a murky ocean.
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The Ukrainian that Germany has issued an arrest warrant, is one of those very few people. He is certified to dive to 240', and has military training.

What is not clear, who was he working for?
 
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jonnyboy said:
There are only a small handful of people in the entire world able to dive at those depths, let alone perform special ops missions attaching bombs to pipelines in the pitch black bottom of a murky ocean. You could fit all the people qualified to do that into a perp lineup at the Mayberry police station lol.
As to who benefits from this, the answer is definitely not Russia. Their potential gas exports are crippled by it.
So taking that into account, i will use the very logic of you and others who support this failed debacle—whatever hurts Russia is good for Ukraine and the US.

Good for oligarchs anyway.
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Good divers can freestyle up to 400ft and with special scuba gear dive to 1000 ft...untrained divers shouldn't dive deeper than 130 ft according to researchers. The divers who blew up the pipe line were highly trained and fully capable of blowing it up...Navy Seals wouldn't have a problem with it but under this circumstance...I think the Ukrainians blew it up and they have special forces similar to our Seals....the Ukranian they arrested may or not have been working for Ukraine. We'll probably never know but it's not like Russia hasn't blown up nuke plants and power stations and oil deposits, hospitals and schools all over Ukraine...in war this shit happens and it's always a waste of life and or resources...there are literally thousands of divers who could blow the pipeline up
 
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oldfisherman said:
However. The impression I came to from reading reports of that time period. A large group of people in Crimea prefered to be independent, and not under the control of Russia, or, Ukraine.
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Unfortunately they were not given the choice to be independent in the referendum. They were actually somewhat independent already. Called the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and had their own parliament.
We do know that there was no neutral party there to monitor the accuracy of the count. And we do know that the parliament was forced at gunpoint to set up a referendum and told how to word it.
 
Here is a good and fair recap of the last week's events.
Ignoring the West and Getting Things Done: This Week in Ukraine
Ukraine has its biggest chance yet to punish the Putin regime, the West refuses to commit to defeating Russia and is still restricting its most powerful weapons, Nord Stream shenanigans, and more!
https://www.warvector.com/p/ignorin...ngs?r=1n9gs4&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
"One of the biggest and least discussed impacts of the Kursk invasion is how it will probably extend the war. The West and Ukraine were tiring of the long and taxing stalemate in the east, with little prospect of a successful Ukrainian counteroffensive. The Kursk invasion has given Ukraine momentum and reenergized the idea that it has the capacity to inflict unacceptable losses on Russia. Of course, Ukraine has always had the capacity for victory, but lately, it’s been palpable. After gouging out a chunk of the Kursk oblast, Ukraine will not entertain any of Putin’s unfavorable peace rhetoric. Likewise, Putin won’t negotiate while still making incremental and significant gains in the Donbas. Regardless, it will take time for the Kremlin to mount an earnest response to this latest incursion. And the war continues."
 
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UKRAINEFAN said:
Here is a good and fair recap of the last week's events.
Ignoring the West and Getting Things Done: This Week in Ukraine
Ukraine has its biggest chance yet to punish the Putin regime, the West refuses to commit to defeating Russia and is still restricting its most powerful weapons, Nord Stream shenanigans, and more!
https://www.warvector.com/p/ignorin...ngs?r=1n9gs4&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
"One of the biggest and least discussed impacts of the Kursk invasion is how it will probably extend the war. The West and Ukraine were tiring of the long and taxing stalemate in the east, with little prospect of a successful Ukrainian counteroffensive. The Kursk invasion has given Ukraine momentum and reenergized the idea that it has the capacity to inflict unacceptable losses on Russia. Of course, Ukraine has always had the capacity for victory, but lately, it’s been palpable. After gouging out a chuck of the Kursk oblast, Ukraine will not entertain any of Putin’s unfavorable peace rhetoric. Likewise, Putin won’t negotiate while still making incremental and significant gains in the Donbas. Regardless, it will take time for the Kremlin to mount an earnest response to this latest incursion. And the war continues."
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Actually, it wasn't that great a recap. He does make some good points though and has a couple good jokes!
 
Little video from inside Sudza, russia. Reminded me of a very telling fact. In contrast to how people in Ukraine actively opposed russia when they invaded, either with guns, preparing molotov cocktails or protests; there has not been a solitary act of resistance by russian citizens in Kursk.
https://www.kyivpost.com/videos/37590
 


At a recruitment center in Sudzha, Yuriy Butusov is destroying documents on Russians who dodged service and refused to let Putin have them killed. As a result, these Russians won’t be drafted into the army.
 
Ukraine continues to advance in Kursk. Russia has moved more troops to block them. But...

The Russian troops in the Kursk region are under 3 different leaderships that do not work together. This has caused problems for the Russians. Even the Russian airforce does not know where their own troops are. There have been several reports of attacks on Russian convoys by their own airforce.

Not all is rosey for Ukraine. Russia did move one top level battle group into Kursk. Instead of attacking the Ukrainians. They set up an ambush, and waited for the Ukainians to be trapped, with no help available. Ukraine did suffer bad losses here. This worked once. Unlike the Russians, I doubt the Ukrainians fall for this a second time. And understand who they are going up against
 
Ukraine has been ramping up production of their large long range drones and also the Neptune missile. They hit a large fuel storage area in russia, at least 14 tanks have burned, the fire is till burning after five days. Also hit an air base very hard and today a ferry carrying railroad tank cars.

 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Ukraine has been ramping up production of their large long range drones and also the Neptune missile. They hit a large fuel storage area in russia, at least 14 tanks have burned, the fire is till burning after five days. Also hit an air base very hard and today a ferry carrying railroad tank cars.

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a very serious tragedy? Oh no!

anyways
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Ukraine has been ramping up production of their large long range drones and also the Neptune missile. They hit a large fuel storage area in russia, at least 14 tanks have burned, the fire is till burning after five days. Also hit an air base very hard and today a ferry carrying railroad tank cars.

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The Russian airbase hit in the last video, maybe totally destroyed.

As of 2 days ago, there were 29 military jets based here. It is not clear yet how many jets were destroyed in this attack. But, this is a HUGE loss for Russia.
 
There are reports that Russia is taking the position, if they believe NATO forces are even about to strike with long range missiles into Russia territory, a European nation will be hit as a warning.

They've also basically said that a peace deal is now off the table.

This is how close we are to the brink. At this point, it seems the two most likely outcomes of this are the total destruction of Ukraine via conventional means, or nukes.

Cheering on the Ukrainian(NATO) invasion is cheering on the latter outcome. No matter what your position is on the ethics of the war.
 
beast blazer said:
There are reports that Russia is taking the position, if they believe NATO forces are even about to strike with long range missiles into Russia territory, a European nation will be hit as a warning.

They've also basically said that a peace deal is now off the table.

This is how close we are to the brink. At this point, it seems the two most likely outcomes of this are the total destruction of Ukraine via conventional means, or nukes.

Cheering on the Ukrainian(NATO) invasion is cheering on the latter outcome. No matter what your position is on the ethics of the war.
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Why would NATO do that? There is no need. Ukraine is doing just fine.

If Russia doesn't like how things are going they should just pull out. Maybe they can convince Ukraine to stop taking Russian land.

The only people guilty of anything is Russia. Don't poke the dog if you don't want to get bit.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Why would NATO do that? There is no need. Ukraine is doing just fine.

If Russia doesn't like how things are going they should just pull out. Maybe they can convince Ukraine to stop taking Russian land.

The only people guilty of anything is Russia. Don't poke the dog if you don't want to get bit.
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You think that incursion force will go on to conquer Russia? It will not and could not. Even if it were capable, nukes still come into play gec Russia wouldn't accept that kind of loss

This brings us back to the what seems to be the only outcome we can realistically hope for. Ukraine's total defeat using conventional weapons.
 
beast blazer said:
You think that incursion force will go on to conquer Russia? It will not and could not. Even if it were capable, nukes still come into play

This brings us back to the what seems to be the only outcome we can realistically hope for. Ukraine's total defeat using conventional weapons.
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Totally. Ukraine s defeat should only take a few days... Right Russia?
 
Phatguysrule said:
Totally. Ukraine s defeat should only take a few days... Right Russia?
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Who said that? NATO has been building up Ukraines military for years. In fact,they admitted the mind accords were just a rude to buy time.

This incursion force is the best stuff they have left. They'll galycant in the kursk region for awhile, but it's only a matter of time.

After Russia absorbs this flurry of punches Ukraine will be spent. Then we get to see if NATO triples down and escalates yet again.
 
beast blazer said:
Who said that? NATO has been building up Ukraines military for years. In fact,they admitted the mind accords were just a rude to buy time.

This incursion force is the best stuff they have left. They'll galycant in the kursk region for awhile, but it's only a matter of time.

After Russia absorbs this flurry of punches Ukraine will be spent. Then we get to see if NATO triples down and escalates yet again.
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Ukraine still has millions willing to fight. What is going to be spent? I have no doubt the West will restock them.

This'll go on for years if Russia doesn't pull out sooner. Ukraine isn't going to give up. And the world will make sure they have weapons to fight back.
 
Russia supplied North Vietnamese & China weapons to fight Americans and the USA supplied weapons to the Mujahideen to fight Russians. Then many of them became Taliban fanatics that fought us with US stingers and such.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Ukraine still has millions willing to fight. What is going to be spent? I have no doubt the West will restock them.

This'll go on for years if Russia doesn't pull out sooner. Ukraine isn't going to give up. And the world will make sure they have weapons to fight back.
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These are the competing narratives. I believe there was a lot of enthusiasm early, but it's waned. You see videos of them literally pulling young Ukrainian men off the street, which wouldn't be necessary if there were millions of volunteers
 
Hoopguru said:
Russia supplied North Vietnamese & China weapons to fight Americans and the USA supplied weapons to the Mujahideen to fight Russians. Then many of them became Taliban fanatics that fought us with US stingers and such.
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Yes, but this is a much higher level of support. And Russia feels like it's fighting a defense war. Russia will launch nukes before losing a conventional war in their own territory.
 
beast blazer said:
These are the competing narratives. I believe there was a lot of enthusiasm early, but it's waned. You see videos of them literally pulling young Ukrainian men off the street, which wouldn't be necessary if there were millions of volunteers
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Yeah I saw a video of the Pope robbing a liquor store too.
 
Several months ago, Ukraine did lower their draft age. From 27 to 25. Ukraine is not drafting kids.

Russia's mandatory military service starts at age 18, kids.

Short update on yesterdays attack on the Russian airbase.
8-12 fighter jets destroyed or damaged. Important support buildings destroyed. Some of the buildings may have had jets inside, and the reason the number of jets hit is not known.

BTW, many Russian kids are fleeing to Finland. The border crossing has been packed.
 
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