Politics Ukraine / Russia (6 Viewers)

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
jonnyboy said:
Um, how do you NOT cite this? The fact it’s probably never been mentioned in this thread or on the fake liberal pro war establishment media you consume tells you all you need to know. It was the answer to solve this conflict and it was stopped dead in its tracks by outside actors. Now hundreds of thousands are dead and you’re parroting vague, idealistic reasons for why this could have happened while ignoring the actual facts that have been layed out for you.
Click to expand...
Minsk accords were never the answer to anything. Ukraine signed tham basically at the point of a gun, because if they didn't, putler threatened to send the russian army all the way to Kyiv. Even then, the accords were so poorly written that they could be interpreted in many different ways. They were useless. BTW, when you say that Ukraine was bombing the Donbass for years, you are parroting a russian narrative that is not true. Why would you do that? The truth is that there was artillery shelling back and forth. Ukrainians were under orders to never initiate fire, only to respond, and they held to that.
 
Last edited:
UKRAINEFAN said:
Wait a minute, russia had troops in Ukraine, a sovereign nation? Do you realize they have always denied ever having troops in Ukraine during this time period? Why do you support liars?
Click to expand...
They probably didn’t consider Crimea as a part of Ukraine after the referendum. That’s up for debate. The people there clearly voted one way (not in favor of being part of Ukraine) and NATO decided they voted wrong, apparently. Maybe being ethnically Russian, speaking Russian, historically being a part of Russia and simultaneously being bombed by Ukraine, what’s supposed to be their own country, left a bad taste in their mouth?
 
ehizzy3 said:
hundreds of thousands are dead because of Putin. Not because the US, Europe, Japan, Korea, or Canada are supporting Ukraine defending themselves.

The war starts and ends with Putin
Click to expand...

This is just you proclaiming things in the most binary way possible. It’s just emotional yelling, devoid of any facts.
 
jonnyboy said:
They probably didn’t consider Crimea as a part of Ukraine after the referendum. That’s up for debate. The people there clearly voted one way (not in favor of being part of Ukraine) and NATO decided they voted wrong, apparently. Maybe being ethnically Russian, speaking Russian, historically being a part of Russia and simultaneously being bombed by Ukraine, what’s supposed to be their own country, left a bad taste in their mouth?
Click to expand...
No. You mentioned specifically "eastern Ukraine". that is not Crimea. As for the referendum in Crimea you are again exactly parroting the russian line. I think you have heard of russian Igor Girkin; he admits the Crimean parliament was forced to set up a referendum by russian soldiers. He was there.
 
A real leader would be figuring out a way to broker peace between Ukraine and Russia, but instead the US keeps fanning the flames, which has resulted in massive death/destruction.

And they've sold this war to the public through constant propaganda, painting Russia as the evil empire and Ukraine as the good resistance. Ignoring the actual context of what lead up to this conflict, and ignoring that Russia is protection a region which wants to break away from Ukraine and has been getting shelled by Ukraine for years....
 
more on the phony referendum. I can't believe any American could believe it was legitimate.
"The council scheduled a referendum for March 16, which offered two choices: join Russia or return to Crimea’s 1992 constitution, which gave the peninsula significant autonomy. Those who favored Crimea remaining part of Ukraine under the current constitution had no box to check. The conduct of the referendum proved chaotic and took place absent any credible international observers. Local authorities reported a turnout of 83 percent, with 96.7 percent voting to join Russia. The numbers seemed implausible, given that ethnic Ukrainians and Crimean Tatars accounted for almost 40 percent of the peninsula’s population. (Two months later, a leaked report from the Russian president’s Human Rights Council put turnout at only 30 percent, with about half of those voting to join Russia.)"
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/crimea-six-years-after-illegal-annexation/
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
No. You mentioned specifically "eastern Ukraine". that is not Crimea. As for the referendum in Crimea you are again exactly parroting the russian line. I think you have heard of russian Igor Girkin; he admits the Crimean parliament was forced to set up a referendum by russian soldiers. He was there.
Click to expand...

Did the Russian soldiers also force the people there to vote a certain way? Or did they do that on their own?
 
Anybody who wants to argue any points, go to russian sources. @Kasparov63 is a russian who is a lot more knowledgeable than me. Or look for videos translated from Prigozhin, leader of Wagner forces outbursts. He admits that there are no Nazis in Ukraine and that the invasion had nothing to do with NATO. He says it was russian elites (of which Putler is one) wanting to steal Ukrainian resources.
 
jonnyboy said:
Did the Russian soldiers also force the people there to vote a certain way? Or did they do that on their own?
Click to expand...
Can you explain the details of how Saddam Hussein and Putin have always won elections with over 90% support?

These are very obviously not legitimate elections.

Just because Russia (Putin) claims it was an open and fair election doesn't mean it was.
 
jonnyboy said:
This is just you proclaiming things in the most binary way possible. It’s just emotional yelling, devoid of any facts.
Click to expand...
it was as factual as any of the bullshit you’re posting then, cool
 
ehizzy3 said:
By the way

let’s not forget who it is that is raping women, trafficking children, torturing, the massacre in Bucha, sabotaging the dam, blowing up grain depots

hint: it’s Russia
Click to expand...

Might wanna double check on the dam thing. Look up Nordstream II while you’re at it.
 
ehizzy3 said:
By the way

let’s not forget who it is that is raping women, trafficking children, torturing, the massacre in Bucha, sabotaging the dam, blowing up grain depots

hint: it’s Russia
Click to expand...
Right. Let's not forget who invaded whom. The war is portrayed as good vs evil because that is precisely what it is.
 
Last edited:
UKRAINEFAN said:
Anybody who wants to argue any points, go to russian sources. @Kasparov63 is a russian who is a lot more knowledgeable than me. Or look for videos translated from Prigozhin, leader of Wagner forces outbursts. He admits that there are no Nazis in Ukraine and that the invasion had nothing to do with NATO. He says it was russian elites (of which Putler is one) wanting to steal Ukrainian resources.
Click to expand...

Sorry, Nazis in Ukraine are well known and well documented. The Azov battalion is only the most prominent one, but there are multiple factions from government insiders and influencers, paramilitary groups, all the way down to hoards of skinhead soccer hooligans. Nazis are more than a small problem there. Most of the western media has even admitted it at this point, but try to explain it away as a “necessary inconvenience”. This isn’t a dig on the people there, because I truly feel sorry for them—but Ukraine has been known to be perhaps the most corrupt governments in Europe for quite some time.
 
barfo said:
"North Vietnam cannot beat the USA in a war. Never in 1000 years."

barfo
Click to expand...

If Vietnam is your parallel for an example of how Ukraine could “win” a war, you’re proving my point for me. Nobody won in Vietnam.
 
jonnyboy said:
This isn’t a dig on the people there, because I truly feel sorry for them—but Ukraine has been known to be perhaps the most corrupt governments in Europe for quite some time.
Click to expand...

So the answer to this "corruption" is to have the even more corrupt Russia invade and fix it for them?
 
jonnyboy said:
Sorry, Nazis in Ukraine are well known and well documented. The Azov battalion is only the most prominent one, but there are multiple factions from government insiders and influencers, paramilitary groups, all the way down to hoards of skinhead soccer hooligans. Nazis are more than a small problem there. Most of the western media has even admitted it at this point, but try to explain it away as a “necessary inconvenience”. This isn’t a dig on the people there, because I truly feel sorry for them—but Ukraine has been known to be perhaps the most corrupt governments in Europe for quite some time.
Click to expand...
I'm not gonna quibble with you. I think you have an ideological bent that governs your way of thinking about russia's war against Ukraine. I doubt that you care about Ukraine or her people. I refer you again to Prigozhin, leader of russia's Wagner group who reveals he doesn't think there are nazis in Ukraine and that that was just an excuse for colonial exploitation.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
So the answer to this "corruption" is to have the even more corrupt Russia invade and fix it for them?
Click to expand...
Russia isn’t trying to take over the entirety Ukraine, there is really nothing to suggest that nor is it strategically significant to do so. It’s a battle for specific areas that have been contested for hundreds of years where borders and influences have changed multiple times. This doesn’t give Russia a pass for their aggression, but you have to at least argue the facts at hand and not hyperbolic theories.
 
jonnyboy said:
Sorry, Nazis in Ukraine are well known and well documented. The Azov battalion is only the most prominent one, but there are multiple factions from government insiders and influencers, paramilitary groups, all the way down to hoards of skinhead soccer hooligans. Nazis are more than a small problem there. Most of the western media has even admitted it at this point, but try to explain it away as a “necessary inconvenience”. This isn’t a dig on the people there, because I truly feel sorry for them—but Ukraine has been known to be perhaps the most corrupt governments in Europe for quite some time.
Click to expand...

OK, I'll bite, how many Nazi's in Ukraine?... what percent?...This should be fun.


So what?...In the US we probably have a few neo-Catholic/Baptist/Protestant/Presbyterian/Liberal/Progressive/Commie-Pinko (no, that's barfo)/Union/Confederate/Arab/Jew/pre 2000/ people...just a guess.
 
Last edited:
jonnyboy said:
If Vietnam is your parallel for an example of how Ukraine could “win” a war, you’re proving my point for me. Nobody won in Vietnam.
Click to expand...

Well, then I really don't understand what your definition of winning a war could be.

Nobody on your side gets hurt and everyone gets a pretty new dress and a unicorn?

barfo
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 7 (members: 0, guests: 7)
Back
Top